Artwork: south walkcycle issue, *UPDATE* 01/05/04

jaz · Fri 26/12/2003 14:07:48

Allright, I havenÂ´t posted any artwork for a long time but now I have found some spare time. I even plugged in my tablet I have bought over a year ago. Till yesterday it was just sitting on my desk, yeah some fourteen months! I canÂ´t believe it myself. I started to fiddle with this toy, only wanting to do some sketching, try pressure sensitivity settings and stuff. I didnÂ´t have any intention to make a BG. I wanted to sketch a furnace because IÂ´m working on a game where it will play an important role. Then I wanted to try some coloring then I added some stuff here and there and then it just snowballed.

Voila:

When I started I was a little bit disappointed because it wasnÂ´t that easy to draw as I would have expected and the lines were a bit shaky. But then I was just like OK, donÂ´t try too hard, make it your style.

So, any C&C on style are welcome. I probably wonÂ´t use this BG in a game (but one never knows and IÂ´m lazy....) and I know some flaws myself, but IÂ´m considering going for this style. So what do you think? And what do you think about the character?

Laters

jaz

EDIT:

Since I had some spare time during holidays I was able to make a couple of things

Preliminary walkcycle:

movement still needs some tweaking, should serve as a base for further work

Character: how it should look in the game

NPC: a quick sketch of one NPC I did just for fun, but I like him so he may appear in the game...

Critics, comments???

And, yes! Happy New Year everybody!

*EDIT* 0105/04: south walkcycle: Im not quite happy with this. Any suggestions? please read the lower post. Thanks.

Penguinx · Fri 26/12/2003 15:51:45

I like the style. The character is unique and surprisingly emotive considering the simplicity of the design. I've always been a fan of high-end stick figures, though. The shading on the stove is of particular interest. Rather nice.

Someday, I am going to have to get off of my bottom and buy a tablet. The stuff that can be done with them is head-turning. For inspiration, I often check this site out: http://www.imphead.com. Check out the 'portfolio' section and see what I mean.

Nixxon · Sat 27/12/2003 11:09:40

mate that's brilliant, i'd love to see an entire game made with that style. keep it up

evilspacefart · Sat 27/12/2003 19:56:13

I noticed the attention to detail, i like how you did the firey glow of the furnace.
looks great! love the character.

JD · Sat 27/12/2003 20:52:30

The background looks stunning, but I especially love the character.
Looks really neat!

Arasan Nayamu · Wed 31/12/2003 17:50:06

I just have to say that I think most adventure games look great with that new artistic 'skewed' style that most of the middle generation are so known for. I think you've got the skewed style down pretty far, but even skewed perspective is still perspective. Take the door and the window. Their vanishing points are going in practically opposite directions. Now I could understand if it was two different walls, but it looks to me like that are parallel walls. So my point being, watch your perspective even if you are going for that classic adventure game skewed look. LOL

Love the character! Reminds me of a roach. Is it a roach? If it is, it needs wings, otherwise it's an ant. But I like ants better anyway so eh. LOL Keep practicing with this new style. It's going great! And ignore the rambling and try to pick out the points that I am trying to convey with my cc here... I haven't had sleep.

Darth Mandarb · Wed 31/12/2003 17:55:36

The walk cycle (prelim or no) looks pretty awesome! Super smooth!

Did you hand animate that? If so, kudos!

It looks like maybe the high-point (when his back leg is directly below him) isn't as high as when the front leg steps through. But I'm just being VERY nitty-picky there.

Maybe fix it so the back arm's sleeve is visible when that arm comes forward. If you watch the front arm the sleeve passes the line of the chest, but the back sleeve doesn't. Again ... just being nitty!

Great job and I love the NPC.

])]v[

Paper Carnival · Wed 31/12/2003 18:04:35

I think the background is ulra-cool! Strangely enough, so is the character. I prefer the NPC one though.

Vel · Wed 31/12/2003 19:50:42

This background is absolutely stunning. Kinda reminds me of Tony Tough. I like the detail in it. The character is also wonderful, a quite unique style!

jaz · Mon 05/01/2004 17:03:27

Allright, I have a serious animation issue so I have to bump this thread. But before IÂ´ll get to the point, some reactions as I was out of the forums for about a week.

Thank you all for the comments, I will try to do my best to fix all the issues, that is, if the time allows me to.

Arasan: maybe you have a point, but I think it works this way. The doorframe was supposed to be archy but picture it just doesnÂ´t show all. But as I say, everytime you have to explain how something is supposed to work in a picture, it means something is wrong when itÂ´s not obvious at the first look. As for character, umm, itÂ´s not supposed to be neither roach, nor ant... itÂ´s just a stickman. Maybe a bit more elaborated one but still a stickman.

Darth: Yep. YouÂ´re right. It should be fixed ItÂ´s not going to be a big deal. The other animation is a different story though... And yes, itÂ´s a hand animation.

Vel: Tony Tough... Yeah, youÂ´re right, there is a certain similarity. I have never seen this game before though, only after you mentioned it I googled for some screenies. It would be nice to attain such a level.

Now, there goes my problem. I made down walkcycle sketch for my character, you can see it in the top post. It was pain in the ass and much more complicated than side walkcycle since IÂ´m fairly new to the world of animation. IÂ´m pretty happy with legs movement but his arms gave me headache. Especially his left arm (right from your POV) I think I can get away with as it is now, but I want it to be natural

Is there anything I could fix without messing with his upper body and complete revamping?

Many thanks in advance

jaz

Paper Carnival · Mon 05/01/2004 17:20:07

u r not alone in the animation issue... I've been trying to make a south walkcycle with no success. Yours is pretty good, but there are some small mistakes... I can't find what they really are though. I can see there is something funny about his left leg. Another thing that is less obvious is that he somehow looks like he is floating on air and touching the ground with his feet.

Darth Mandarb · Mon 05/01/2004 17:52:27

I think that's just awesome for hand animation! Wow!

Issues:

The left arm (mostly just the shoulder area) doesn't hide behind the body on the backswing. It probably should just a little given the slight angle of the walking. There is also (looks to me) like a missing move in the shoulder line. As it goes into the last frame (arm fully forward) the shoulder shifts quickly into position rather than smoothly. Looks like maybe the right shoulder does that slightly too in the full back position.

The waist line of the shirt ... maybe add just a few pixels shift there as his torso turns (follow the movement of the shoulders)

The left pant leg, when coming forward, looks as if it's crossing over the right leg. This could be just a line issue and with colors and shading may take care of that issue.

I hope this helps you.

If this(these) are your first forays into animation I really look forward to your future work! I've been animating for years and I still don't feel up to speed on it! Outstanding first attempts! Keep it up!!

])]v[

jaz · Tue 06/01/2004 15:19:03

Hi, Darth, ill give it a shot, thanks. I was getting sick of this animation.
As for my future in animation, I donÂ´t think there will be much since itÂ´s just not my cup of tea... I consider animations necessary evil in process of gamemaking but I know everybody enjoys them thus I gotta make them

Really, itÂ´s much like work for me, pleasant but still work. Backgrounds and other still grphics on the other hand are pure joy for me.

But I will try to do my best to make the game look good including animations. (with help of your suggestions, of course)

jaz

powerhouse · Tue 06/01/2004 17:24:34

You could model this character in 3D Studio or Cinema 4D XL and then import it into Poser and you could pose and animate your character EASY!! I like 3D Studio. I like Cinema 4D XL. I find Cinema 4D is a lot easier to use than 3D studio and just as powerful and then I import a wierd character like your bug and then I pose him and make him talk. I have used I seen some software that matches the Poser LIPS to Audio.

It's great work with that walking animation tho I think I like it!

Vel · Tue 06/01/2004 18:11:27

QuoteYou could model this character in 3D Studio or Cinema 4D XL and then import it into Poser and you could pose and animate your character EASY!!

Now how didn't he think of that? Maybe because he wants it to be 2D and cool? You know, that quote quite shows your attitude towards game making. The character jaz made is better than anything done in Poser.

Igor · Tue 06/01/2004 19:26:46

It's superb!
If those are your first animations, i think it would be a *big* shame not to continue as you obviously have real talent for this!
Also, style of background as well as character is priceless (very refreshing).
Looking forward to your game

powerhouse · Tue 06/01/2004 19:44:15

Quote from: Vel on Tue 06/01/2004 18:11:27
QuoteYou could model this character in 3D Studio or Cinema 4D XL and then import it into Poser and you could pose and animate your character EASY!!
Now how didn't he think of that? Maybe because he wants it to be 2D and cool? You know, that quote quite shows your attitude towards game making. The character jaz made is better than anything done in Poser.

Vel you can create any character (like a dog or a bird or a plane or a piece of cheese) in 3D Studio. Then you import it into Poser and setup the IK and joints. Then you can make a character that looks just like this one move just like he moves. You can render it without shading if you want just the outline. Would you like to see examples? This PDF shows you step-by-step how to do it.
http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/makin_poser_characters_from_scratch.zip

It's not to 'take over' hand drawn art, it's there if he wants to skip the laborious animation cells that are required to make a smooth animation. It gets faster but not as fast as 2D renders (let me know if you want me to make this character for you to show you what I mean. We can do a hard walk like southwest to illustrate the speed to produce and likeness to the original)

Vel · Tue 06/01/2004 19:47:41

I doubt that it would be nearly as cool.

powerhouse · Tue 06/01/2004 19:52:18

Perhaps... the blood, sweat and tears are obvious.

jaz · Wed 07/01/2004 13:43:32

Well,

I must say that IÂ´m not a great fan of 3D in adventure games and I would always prefer a solid 2D look before stunning 3D. But it mainly applies to backgrounds. In fact I could imagine this particular character in 3D because of its stick design. But as I want to go for 2D I was considering what powerhouse suggested â€" 3D wireframe render to get the animation phases right. Then I would import the frames into Photoshop and make a 2D paintover. This would allow me to have much more ingame animations as I wouldnÂ´t have to spend ages fiddling with inbetweens Think Runaway.

My heart tells me to go for hand animation since I would consider â€œ3D wayâ€ cheating a bit but my brain says otherwise since then I could spend more time on the other aspects of the game. Main reasons why I havenÂ´t tried this already:

1) I am not acquainted with any 3D rendering program
2) I donÂ´t legaly own any 3D rendering program

As I said I donÂ´t like 3D much but if itÂ´s able to create the look IÂ´m going for, why not give it a shot since the outcome is what really matters, not means of getting it done?

So, powerhouse, if you read this, I am interested and if you can render test character for me, I would appreciate it.

Vel:thanks for your support, you donÂ´t know how delighted I was when I read your posts. If IÂ´m going for 3D prerender, donÂ´t be disappointed and wait for the result as I would appreciate your feedback.

Igor: if YOU say itÂ´s good, itÂ´s a real compliment for me. IÂ´m not complete animation n00b since I spent a fair amount of time using Autodesk Animator making flics. But it was some eight years ago and I even didnÂ´t know any basics such as I should start with keyframes adding inbetweens cosequentlyâ€¦ Also I used some reference making these, a few years ago I got a chance to get a glance on some book on animation in library, but unfortunately I donÂ´t remember the name. There were some articles on walk animation WITH PICTURES!!! Not complete animation but I got the idea. The copy machine was broken though so I had to make some hand sketches of important keyframes in a rush â€" four for every cycle. I didnÂ´t need it for anything then but what do you know? It came in handy now even though my character has different proportions.. Then I just watched people walking everywhere, on the streets in movies and games and I was ready to start. But still it was a martyrdom for meâ€¦

Thanks, jaz