Background - Jungle

[big brother]

Few crits with the first image:

- No warm colors, so everything seems to fade back

- Generally good use of desaturation for the atmospheric perspective, but the river is inconsistent. It seems to be drawn to the front of the picture, even against the banks.

- The shading on the right side of the arch is confusing. Is it nearer to the camera? The shape suggests so, but the lighting says otherwise.

- The hues should shift between the "walls" and the "floor" on the bg, making the walkable areas clear and usable for an adventure game.

If you don't understand any of this, let me know. I might be able to find time to do a sloppy edit.

[Sektor 13]

Actually I do not

[big brother]

Here's the sloppy edit. I lost most of your fiddly detailing, so pay most to the attention to the color. The object here is not to replicate a painting or photo, but to make a background that gives clear direction to a player.



EDIT: I looked at my background again, and there's still the depth problem with the land bridge (present in the original). Unsure if it's going away from the camer then arching back or what's going on there.

[LilBlueSmurf]

I am sorry, but making sure that walls and floor have clearly different colors/hues or are clearly seperated in any way seems like a pretty stupid thing a bg "should" have and I totally disagree.  I like the fact that everything is basically green.  It really gives it a good jungle look.  And while it might seem to have some depth issues I think that is actually okay too.  Distances in jungle atmospheres can be suprisingly deceptive in real life and I see no reason why that can't carry over into game graphics.  I think the only real problem is the water.  Trying to "fix" the other things would likely take a very long time to be effective, and could still end up having almost no noticeable effect unless you put old and new side by side.

[ScottDoom]

Very quick and sloppy color edit...

Hmm... My water is better (in my opinion) but I think my edit isn't green enough...

[Corey]

the 1st one looks like King Kong (u know that island)

the 2nd one looks like... uhm it looks like... erm I dunno but I like the 1st one more

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Some things I did:

1.  Made the water murkier to reflect the color of the surroundings
2.  Removed some of the horizontal lines in the upper left.
3.  Made a path more visible on the bridge.



I made the river very deep so I'm not sure if it fits with your image or not.

[big brother]

I think the main problem is the composition. Are we looking at two arches, one crossing over to form an X in top view?

Try something:
Cover the right half with your hand and study it. The left side of the path seems to arch away from the camera while the top part seems to come towards it.

Now cover the left side. The land bridge is straight or even going towards the camera a little. The top part actually crosses all the way over the land, blocking any view of the room's exit.

Are these arches tree trunks? Or some sort of formation on an alien planet?

Sorry if I digress in the next part of this post, but stupidity drives me wacko, especially when it's directed at me...

I am sorry, but making sure that walls and floor have clearly different colors/hues or are clearly seperated in any way seems like a pretty stupid thing a bg "should" have and I totally disagree.

Hahahahahaahahahaha.... Well, that clears up that. Your point is totally proven with this statement. I'll just quit my job now so you can take it.

Distances in jungle atmospheres can be suprisingly deceptive in real life and I see no reason why that can't carry over into game graphics.

Distances anywhere can be deceptive when someone's as blind as you are. But even if this is true, and atmospheric perspective somehow doesn't apply, why the fuck would a creator want basic elements of their background to be "deceptive"? The point of game graphics is not so much to reflect reality, but to provide visual cues that the player can easily understand.

Trying to "fix" the other things would likely take a very long time to be effective, and could still end up having almost no noticeable effect unless you put old and new side by side.

No, seriously. What the fuck are you talking about? Are you saying that it's impractical to "fix" someone else's work? I never said my edit was the ONLY WAY to improve the bg. In fact, If you actually read what I wrote, I said it was a SLOPPY EDIT. And I think it's obvious that it lacks the polish of the original, but apparently you thought I believed it to be on par.

As for putting the images side by side, here are a few tips, Lilgaysmurf:
1. Use the BACK button on your browser. It should be right up there around the FILE drop down menu on your internet browser.
2. Save the files on your hard drive and open them in your paint program of choice. Maybe then you can actually look at them up close before forming some asinine opinion.

Don't get mad, you had this coming.

[YicklePigeon]

The original picture, apart from the oft-pointed out river issue, is fine.  Thumbs up to Sektor! No doubt when it fills the screen with game characters etc it'll all pull together.  Indeed, if you want more reference material Sektor, how about the jungle section in Broken Sword 2?

Regards,

Yickle.

[Sam.]

I think the blueness of the river is something you shoudl address. The water would only be blue if there was a clear blue sky above it, and because your in the jungle, only green stuff is above it, so the water should be greeny brown. Ill PO soon

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

BB- Keep your language and insults under control.  While Littlebluesmurf may have said your idea was 'stupid' he did not say YOU were stupid, so knock off the personal attacks and get over it. 

BOTH OF YOU- do not create a flamewar with your attitudes.  If you have a problem, take it to private messages.

[Sektor 13]

Hehe, this debate really got hot !

Well, i fixed water couple of days ago, but i didn't yet uploaded my picture, i added some "yellowish" shine on the grass and darken some parts as the Big Brother suggested,Ã,  but that is all, and i will not fix the background anymore. for now

By the way, there is a part of the sky above the river, so it can be a blue with a bit of a green.

EDIT:

here is new pic:


x2


Edit by Andail: Displayed resized version. It's not an official rule, but magnifying low-resolution art will make it easier to see. Great background by the way!

[scourge]

heya sektor. Your bg rocks. I finally downloaded stargate. Can't wait to play after i saw this bg. "The String" - sounds cool 

[Mordalles]

yeah, i also downloaded stargate after ive seen ure bgs here. i have dial-up, and so i downloaded it over a few internet sessions. thats why i didnt download it previously, since it was bit big. but now i have, and gonna play right away. it seems u use a sort of matte-painting technique for ure bgs. but not quite.

love the latest version.

[Igor]

I think you nailed it with this last edit.. fantastic!

[LilBlueSmurf]

Yeesh man, sorry. Ã, I didn't mean to sound like I was calling you down or anything, I guess stupid was a bad word, I appologize. Ã, Please relax on the backlash though as it almost made me want to say things I would regret. Ã, To clarify:

Background/path color difference doesn't seem like a must have because it can be very impractical when trying to convey certain moods or atmospheres. Ã, (Sorry again for using 'stupid')

Having a 'background' that is not clear cut could be seen as deceptive, but when trying to convey tension or confusion a player character feels it is sometimes useful to make the actual player feel a bit of confusion. Ã, In this case, treking through a vast jungle could be quite tense and scary. Ã, Is it more important to make sure the picture has correct perspectives and obvious objects (trees vs rock formation) or to relay the overall feeling of a place? Ã, I guess that is a question the author has to answer.

When I mentioned 'fixing' the image, I did not mean to involve your paintover in anyway. Ã, I work in a very quick turnaround art market, and so the thinking behind this may not be relevent to a fan game. Ã, Basically, I ment that, yes, after much work most images will eventually look almost just as you invisioned, but where do you draw the line? Ã, Do you work on one piece for 3 months until it is just right, or manage the major issues and accept less important details in order to get a piece out faster? Ã, Again something that will just have to be decided each time.

To BB, it is apparent that a main focus for you is on ease of use so we may again have differing oppinions as my main concern will most usually be just the look, so please don't bash. Ã, I am quite amazed at your indifference to blasting out insults however, and hope that you keep in mind we are one community here. Ã, You seem to be fairly regular contributor and it would just be nice to see the regulars more often taking the higher ground to keep the community stronger. Ã, I appologize again, and for anyone else, I will NOT insult on purpose, and should I do so by a too critical remark or misused word please let me know privately. Ã, (And sorry for causing all this off topic chatter).

[Sam.]

you got it much better in the last edit, but you still need to  get rid of those horizontals in the top left, see progs edit for what i mean.

[big brother]

Sorry to post this publicly...but, I did insult you publicly, LBS.

I was an ass. Hope all can be forgiven. I have a quick fuse when general dismissal statements are used without any kind of supporting info.

The river in the new edit looks nicer, it blends well. The purple spots are hard to read, there's still a bit of the prob with the exit being blocked from the view, and the bridge still looks twisted. As for the upper arch, I think if the highlights on the right side were darker (perhaps a tinge of a darker, cooler color) it would help portray that side as being closer to the foreground. If you moved that side of the arch further right, it might solve the exit issue, too.

[esper]

I've always wondered exactly how people get such details into their work, especially not-terribly-hi-res art like this. It's fantastic.

[Corey]

I've always wondered exactly how people get such details into their work, especially not-terribly-hi-res art like this. It's fantastic.

hey I was going to say something like that