Deer Goddess

[MashPotato]

Just finishing up a sketch for a painting I'm planning to do, based on a pixel I made a while ago, but I increased the deer characteristics a bit.  I'm hoping to make this a nice detailed painting, so any crit you can give in these early stages would be much appreciated

I was picturing her to be quite tall, but do the fawns look too small in comparison?



(as you may be able to tell, some things were scribbled in just now )

and here's the old picture:


Thanks!

[ThreeOhFour]

Heh, I keep reading the title of this as "Dear Goddess"

No criticism from me. The fawns don't look too small - I'm not sure about fawns, but I know lambs are really very small when born, so if these fawns are quite young I'd expect this size to be about right. Plus, they look cute when they're very small, so I'd say you've nailed the size.

I remember seeing the pixeled version a while back and thinking it looked really great - I look forward to seeing you paint this version up

[Misj']

Hay Mash,

Just finishing up a sketch for a painting I'm planning to do, based on a pixel I made a while ago, but I increased the deer characteristics a bit.  I'm hoping to make this a nice detailed painting, so any crit you can give in these early stages would be much appreciated
...
Thanks!

Nice work as usual,
but since it's critique you asked for...

The calf that was added last is a bit off composition-wise. I'm not entirely sure what it is (it's a feeling rather than something I can rationally put my finger on), but it might have to do with the straight-on design of the fawn. Also, it feels too close to the object of interest (the woman), making the composition a bit cluttered. Rotation of the calf might solve this as well.

As for character-design of the main character. She looks good, but there are a few things that you might want to reconsider. Her anatomy is a bit off, which - as far as I can see - is on purpose to give her more deer-like properties. However, her upper-body is a little too long and slender. Especially, since it's a 'boring' area dividing the interesting upper-part from the interesting lower-part. A more important 'mistake' is the straightness of her arm. It creates a very unnatural stance.

Mainly for fun and some practice on my part I've redrawn her incorporating these (and some other) pointers. It's by no means better than Mash's original drawing. I just wanted to see whether I could do it...in a slightly different style of course.

-- click image to enlarge --

For those interested in character-design (and not as a critique towards Mash) I've written down some of the thoughts I had when recreating Mash's character.

-- click image to enlarge --

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

While I agree with Misj that the torso seems a bit too long, I think he went a little far with the arm bending.  It looks physically bent now rather than bent at the elbow.

Here are a few reference images I looked up that may help:


This one has the woman clearly leaning back.  I'm not sure if this is what you want but it could be useful.

http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-19063266.jpg?size=572&uid={e214778d-7dc2-47c2-b5f8-c878443b06d6}


The upper body pose here more closely resembles yours.

http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-19063353.jpg?size=572&uid={2dcdbacb-5631-47e3-a083-22e1bd87a527}


And one more.

http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-16586167.jpg?size=572&uid={436abdd9-2ee6-4187-885e-3a12a312de34}


The point of these images is to show that the more erect someone's posture is, the less weight they place on the arm and the less it needs to bend as a result.  Based on this, I think the arm would look fine with just a slight bend at the elbow.


I think your original composition is fine as part of your art style, but if you wanted to somehow make a deer humanoid 'realistic', a bit more attention to anatomical proportion (torso length, arm and leg length) might be in order.  I have nothing to say about the background items because they're rather undefined right now, but I look forward to seeing a more complete version!

[Misj']

While I agree with Misj that the torso seems a bit too long, I think he went a little far with the arm bending.  It looks physically bent now rather than bent at the elbow. .

The point of these images is to show that the more erect someone's posture is, the less weight they place on the arm and the less it needs to bend as a result.  Based on this, I think the arm would look fine with just a slight bend at the elbow.

-- slightly off topic --
While I agree that I went 'a little' overboard with the bending of the arm, it is not true that 'putting less weight on an arm' decreases the 'need to bend'. In general, the more weight you put on your arms, the more you straighten it eventually 'locking' the bones (or you bend it fully at the elbow), in order to lower the tension on the muscles (which in turn costs less energy). And in most cases you don't really rest on your arms but use the muscles in your belly and back to support the position of your body...the arms are there for support, but not to carry the weight. In complete rest (and also when no weight is supported at all) your arms are slightly bend forward.
-- slightly off topic --

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

What I was saying is that the more you bend your upper body down from the erect posture, the more your arm has a tendency to bend because you're bringing your shoulders down, and provided the position of your hand isn't moving from the side your arm must bend.  Obviously if your arms are behind you and you are resting on them, the elbow will lock (which isn't really happening in Mash's drawing imo because she's not leaning backward at all.  The arm is 'hanging back' or at rest).

[MashPotato]

Thanks for the input, guys! (neat paintover too )

I agree with the composition problems with the fawn on the right, I'm definitely going to be changing that

As for the arm, she's not supposed to be leaning on it, but rather it's supposed to be off the floor, leading the turning of the torso as she twists around to face the viewer.  I guess it's not that very clear, so I'll try to adjust and fix that somehow (probably by introducing a bend at the wrist so it looks more delicate).  I might shorten the torso a tad, it's something I'll play around with.

Thanks again guys!

[auriond]

Maybe the hoof at the end of that arm can be turned slightly to face the viewer? Right now it's too straight; the flow isn't there. If it's turned to face the viewer, it'll look like it's at rest, but I don't think that's what you're looking for.

I do think, though, if I were turning around to face someone I wouldn't stick my arm out so far behind me. I'd place it on the floor somewhere near my butt to facilitate me turning around. Not sure if this will help you

(beautiful work as always, by the way!)

[Dualnames]

Heh, I keep reading the title of this as "Dear Goddess"

Lol, you got that too?

Anyway, can't really tell much, but the size's good. Her chin is very very narrow..though.

[Misj']

(neat paintover too )

Thanks

As for the arm, she's not supposed to be leaning on it, but rather it's supposed to be off the floor, leading the turning of the torso as she twists around to face the viewer.  I guess it's not that very clear, so I'll try to adjust and fix that somehow (probably by introducing a bend at the wrist so it looks more delicate).

The arm in my version was actually my second try at giving it some bend. The first try might be more to some people's liking (yes, it's less bend, and no, I don't really know why I changed it the second time ), and so I've created a mock-up version of your drawing with this arm pasted inside. Maybe someone finds it helpful...maybe I'm just wasting valuable space on the internet.

-- click image to enlarge --

[Ryan Timothy B]

If you REALLY want to get technical, if she was a cross between human and deer her elbow shouldn't even bend in that direction, unless she's more human than she is deer.  Then she wouldn't be able to run on all fours especially with that backwards paw.  But it's not like these cross breeds exist... at least not to my knowledge.   

Anyway looks great Mash, as always.

[MashPotato]

Thanks everyone, here's the edit

[ThreeOhFour]

Yeah! I really like this edit. Only thing - it could be my eyes playing tricks, but the fawn that is to the right of the image seems to have a wonky back leg, or one that is longer than the other.

I look forward to seeing you put some colour in here

[Matti]

Only thing - it could be my eyes playing tricks, but the fawn that is to the right of the image seems to have a wonky back leg, or one that is longer than the other.

Yeah, your eyes are playing you tricks indeed. It's the leg in the front which is a bit raised.




Great work, Mash. Your edit is a great improvement and I'd like to see color too.

[ThreeOhFour]

Ahaha I must be blind 

Thanks for pointing that out, is all making sense to me now 

[MashPotato]

A little bit of progress   I'm trying out painting in B&W and adding colour after.



I'm planning on adding a background, but that horror show will wait for a bit

[ThreeOhFour]

Looking reeeeaaallly funky  8)

I am interested in how you're going to add the colour - I assume you are not just going to paint over the top of the black and white without some fancy layery trickery stuff?

Is very nice, anyhow.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I like it!  Her face looks more deer-like than the original, as well.

[Ali]

I didn't have any very useful suggestions for the first image, and I still don't, but I love them both. Her new face reminds me of Princess Mononoke, which is a good thing. The only thing that strikes me is I feel I should be able to see a bit of her right ear under the right antler.

I would also be very interested to know how and why you're going from black and white to colour. It sounds like an interesting technique.

[MashPotato]

Thanks guys!
With regard to the B&W-->colour process, it's indeed done with adjustment layers, gradient maps, and weird things like that (I use Photoshop).  I usually only do it that way when I'm attempting to draw realistic portraits (example), but I thought I'd try it out with this painting so I would really pay attention to the lighting.  Not to mention, it would force me to learn how to use those layers properly