Desert BG in need of some TLC

SpacePirateCaine · Fri 13/02/2009 23:37:44

Hey folks. I'm trying to expand my horizons a bit and work on my background art, and hopefully also bolster my portfolio a bit that way as well. I started this landscape here, and got quite a ways in so far, but I've basically run into a roadblock. I'm relatively happy with the background, but the sandy foreground leaves a bit to be desired. Would anyone be able to offer some advice on how to fix it up?

Original (Pre-C&C)

Newest (Post-C&C)

I'm really trying to avoid creating extra colors just for AA. I've already hit 10, but the top of the large hulking technological behemoth in the background is a bit jaggy (above the darker half of the sky), and basically everything on the sand as well. Regardless of how finished it is, this background is going into a CD of my portfolio I'm sending out on Monday (Sunday for most of you, I suppose), so Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Also, if any of the Pixel BG people out there could take a look at the steps I'm taking, and tell me if I'm doing everything bass-ackwards, please let me know what I can do to streamline.

Update x3

Alright, brief update to show what changes I've started making. I actually sort of did the opposite of what SpacePaw suggested by darkening the low tones using a nearly unused AA tone - I just really prefer the high contrast, as it creates a much more stark environment.

Fixed some shading issues where shadows should have been pointing in the other direction. Now that I've had some time to rest, I've also healed my laziness and am getting really down 'n dirty with the pixels - no more sloppy shading down below. About 1/3 of the way through, and will continue to work my way to the right.

Also added yet another tone, specifically for the purposes of Anti-aliasing at the top of the 'technological behemoth' in the background so that the top won't be quite so jaggy.

x2: With a few comments by Evil, I think I was able to fix a few compositional issues and make it an overall stronger piece. The right side of the foreground is still a bit stark, but I think that the high contrast does wonders for it.

x3: Very small edit - added a little depth to the darker area on the right part of the foreground. Thanks, SpacePaw!

xWhatever: I made a drastic alteration to the palette following some of the advice imparted to me by wise master Progz, and also fixed a small issue with over-AA in a dune or two. Also, there was some gnarly banding going on around the sun (Thanks Helm!), that I took steps to rectify.

Jakerpot · Sat 14/02/2009 02:32:16

WOW! Awsome work dude!

:o
i don`t think anything to change, but adding a skeleton or something half burried on the sand would be great!
J-

SpacePaw · Sat 14/02/2009 05:40:10

I would work on the sun. It's just circular right now and very very dim... I'm not sure what should you make about it but it kind of stands out. Also the darkest shade of sand in the foreground doesnt look too good. I would make it a bit brighter or leave it without it.

Jakerpot · Sat 14/02/2009 05:45:21

i think the right side of the sand, the dark shade, look like it`s unfinished. Putting more dunes there will make the job!

SpacePaw · Sat 14/02/2009 05:56:28

Something like that in my mind. Also, the ligth on the sand was much different than the sun color. I made it look more colored by the sunlight, I think it looks bit better now even if you keep your sun idea and darker shadow

SpacePirateCaine · Sat 14/02/2009 09:16:46

Thanks for the thoughts, PixelPaw & Jakerpot. I've taken a few of your ideas, but I don't think I'm going to be employing everything. I actually desaturated the tone for the sun a bit, but left most of the other tones intact. I just felt that the color as you had it right now was a little too low-contrast and kinda looked like custard, or something of the sort.

Also, I'm planning on keeping the sun as mostly circular, as the sun ultimately is just a big round ball. And looking through the haze of a really dusty atmosphere, it's likely to come across as such, in my opinion. I may fiddle with the sun's color a little more as well.

Evil · Sat 14/02/2009 10:47:01

I like the look of the sand in SpacePaw's edit. Having the sand match the sun and background better gives the whole thing more atmosphere.

There are two things that really stand out to me; the sun and the horizon. The sun still looks really jagged. I wouldn't give it any AA because it'll look too fuzzy and more out of place, but maybe some clouds or sandy haze over part of it will break it up enough that it's not one big eyesore.

The horizon is having some compositional issues. There's a lot falling on the barrier between the upper sky and the lower/distant sky. Example, the tall obelisk to the right of the "behemoth" should be slightly taller, maybe 25-50%, just so it doesn't fall on that line. Another example is the solid tone obelisk on the furthest mountain, half way between the sun and the behemoth is too tall.

I did a quick thing to show you a few points.

The red circles are all points that fall on that horizon between the sky/clouds, and they all create a visual division of the top of the sky and the "background." A lot can be fixed by moving the objects up or down slightly. I like how the behemoth sits above the clouded part (it reminds me of Cloud City in Star Wars). It gives it a way cooler feel. But the positioning of the clouds run with the line of the top of the building. I'd try moving the whole thing up a few pixels, mainly to get the small sliver of clouds over the middle out of the way.

The furthest red circle is a big point of conjunction. Moving one of those pieces around a bit will make that go away. You could also play with giving the clouds some shape along the horizon and maybe get "closer" to the viewer by tapering them up slightly at the ends.

And while we're talking about the red line, the obelisk in front of the sun looks nice, but it's too centered. I'd move it to the left some. I think it'll help fix the gap between mountains on the left as well as allude more to the direction of the light.

The green circle is another little clump that stands out. It's not as bad, but the main thing is the hole int he darkest mound. It looks neat, but it's not as pronounced as it should be. Either make it larger and more clear what it is or reshape the mound. The other light colors on the darkest mount don't look too great, so I'd probably lose those (IE, under the behemoth).

The blue circle is a strange line that makes the two obelisks look on the same plane and doesn't help give the image depth. Shortening the right one or lengthening the left one should help that.

The last thing is the darker blue circle on the dune. There's nothing really going on here, and I'm not sure how I feel about it. Visually, I think it balances out with the sun and the sand, but as a background, the right portion of the foreground it sort of lost. This background isn't really that "functional", but it loses something there.

Perhaps adding a tall dune that rides up into the frame of the image, or one small middle shade dune? Maybe even adding a taller dune shadow to the left of the image will help with the balance. I'm not quite sure yet, but it maybe needs something.

Sorry about all of the nonsense. I really dig this image, so I guess I wrote a lot.

SpacePirateCaine · Sat 14/02/2009 11:20:13

Hey Evil - Thanks for the food for thought. I'm rehauling the image as we speak, and have made a few modifications.

Not 100% sure about that far-left red item you were talking about, but did work a bit on fixing the objects lining up around the two tones of the sky.

Also, I made another edit to the sun's shade, but I'm worried that it's getting a little too bright and starting to draw too much attention to itself...

Geratuza · Sat 14/02/2009 11:37:40

I'm loving that picture. Well done!

Here's how it could look like with some more light to the left and a few more shades to the right. Just an idea.

SpacePaw · Sat 14/02/2009 11:39:17

Hey

I'm no great artist but I had another idea.
1. If the sun is too bright just make it EXACLY the sand color
2. added a small light on the right as it still seemed too flat to me there

As to gerad's idea it might look good but as I recon spacePirate was after small amount of colours and so this is not acceptable aproach

SpacePirateCaine · Sat 14/02/2009 11:43:06

Thank you everyone for the ideas. I'm gaining a lot through this. I especially like what you've done with that little mound on the right side. Surprising how that vague tone helps. I think I'll adapt that a bit. I'd also toyed with the idea of making the sun the same shade as the sand. It would certainly save me an extra tick on my color count.

And Geraduatuza, thank you for the remix there - unfortunately, it's impractical since I'm trying to keep my color count as low as possible, and doing everything entirely by hand (pixel for pixel). It looks cool, I'll certainly give you that, but doesn't really work for my purposes. Thank you anyway!

Aaaand... Implemented. Still have the extra tone for the sun. I'm still debating on that one. If I keep it, I may put some highlights on the sand using it.

SpacePaw · Sat 14/02/2009 12:27:48

Much better on the right side now

I'm glad that I could help, I'm afraid I don't see anything to make better anymore. Great work man

I always had problems with backgrounds - esspecially deserts and cliffs

SpacePirateCaine · Sat 14/02/2009 12:32:13

You and me both - this is my first real attempt at a background that hasn't failed completely. Between you and Evil, I think I'm just about done with this one. Hopefully potential employers feel the same way. I'm going to leave it up for a bit longer before I submit it to PixelJoint and but in my burn folder - maybe take a closer look at it tomorrow and see if I still like it, or if I see anything else with fresh eyes that needs fixing and may yet try something to smooth out the AA on the foreground to midground transition. But for now, I'm semi-satisfied...

Unless someone else comes along and points out some glaring error that I'm going to need to fix - which is a pretty likely scenario.

Geratuza · Sat 14/02/2009 12:47:59

Quotethis is my first real attempt at a background that hasn't failed completely

don't be so modest, it's an awesome pic ^^ and yea, the color-scheme has its own charme that those high-color-effects would disturb.
However, I've had another thought about the foreground -- it may be possible to improve the impression of wideness (flatness) of the scene by conjoining the foreground to the background a bit more. As it is now, it appears as if the viewer is standing on some kind of hill, not seeing the part where the sand meets the mountains.

Added 3 conjunctions here using smaller pixels/pixelareas. Don't know if it makes it any better.

Again, it's awesome as it is and I'd love to see a game in that style.

SpacePirateCaine · Sat 14/02/2009 13:42:29

Yes, that's what was missing, and it's nice to see someone was thinking the same thing I was when I dropped my last post. I had been playing with some AA between the mountains and desert, but I think I finally have it. Final draft(?):

You'll notice I desaturated some of the colors even more, and actually altered the tone I was using to AA the second layer of mountains (The purplish ones). It's really, really hazy now, but I think I like it that way. Also decided ultimately to go with the same tone as the lightest sand for the sun.

So here it is. Hope y'all like it, and if anyone has some other ideas, please feel free to share.

I'm also updating the first post with this image and a new WIP animation to show my steps, in case it helps anyone else.

ALPHATT · Sat 14/02/2009 13:46:42

I like the new one, it feels like theres a small amount of sand in the air.

Ghost · Sat 14/02/2009 13:51:47

Nothing to say or crit, but it's awesome to read this thread and see an already very great background evolving into an outstanding one. I feel I've also learned a lot from that, especially about palette awareness (always my weak spot). Congrats on the background, and thanks for sharing!

SpacePirateCaine · Sat 14/02/2009 14:06:54

Thanks for the kind words, Ghost. I'm glad that you like it, and I'm hoping to put together another new background soon (probably with a different theme).

For the time being, I've uploaded it to PixelJoint Here. Inevitably, I'll get a handful of new critiques from them, in which case I may make a few changes - of course those will be updated here as well.

Special thanks again to Evil & SpacePaw (Welcome to the boards again, SpacePaw).

SpacePaw · Sat 14/02/2009 14:11:19

Quote from: SpacePirateCaine on Sat 14/02/2009 14:06:54
Special thanks again to Evil & PixelPaw (Welcome to the boards again, PixelPaw).

for the second time you call me PixelPaw

Why? I'm not offended, I even like it

I just keep wondering why

SpacePirateCaine · Sat 14/02/2009 14:32:10

Damn, and here I thought I'd gotten it right. I had to rewrite it a few times before as well. I guess I've got pixels on the brain recently. Uploading the picture to PixelJoint, posting for C&C on Pixelation, doing this entire BG pixel-for-pixel... That, and since your name is so close to mine, I guess it just kinda slips past me. I like the alliteration, as well. PixelPaw.

You'd think with names as similar as SpacePirate... and SpacePaw, it'd be easier to remember. Don't mind me, I'm one of those people who misreads something a few times and it gets stuck in their head like that.