First impressions... (Complete.)

[Ionias]

Hope this is useful (to somebody)...

Yes, Misj’ your (double) post is useful. I did try to change her stance to that thumbnail you posted. However, this brought her right back into “super-hero” territory again. Here is another attempt at it that I tried after that attempt. I’m not happy with it so I didn’t bother to ink it but it shows where I’m headed, and I think it shows how I tried to incorporate everyone’s ideas.



I’m not sure I like the new shoes. I’m going to lose the bell bottoms they make her look to cliché’ and I’m going to give her a pony tail. I think the pony tail would be more in line with her character. I’m going to try and keep the new hips. I think I can get by with even less breasts than what she’s got at the moment, at least that’s my goal. Anyways, I’m sort of rambling here but if anyone wanted to give me some last minute ideas before I do her final version and ink it, now would be a great time. I got a pretty busy weekend ahead of me but I’d really like to get this under my belt.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Have you tried using reference images?  I found this render that might help you:

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/attachment.php?attachmentid=59237

A couple of things to pay attention to would be the torso length (yours is too long), the leg length, and the sloping of the shoulders.  Correcting these will help you establish a more feminine form.

[Questionable]

I was just about to say:

Go look at some naked women. =P 

I suppose you got y point across though Prog.

[Ionias]

Have you tried using reference images? 

When I’m trying to create an original character I’m entirely opposed to the idea of reference images. That’s just me. Whenever I draw from a reference work whatever the final out come makes up in anatomical correctness it seems to lack in creativity.

A couple of things to pay attention to would be the torso length (yours is too long), the leg length, and the sloping of the shoulders.  Correcting these will help you establish a more feminine form.

Heh, if you look closely at the above sketch you can see my notes to shorten the torso. I will definitely be playing around with the shoulders and leg length like you mentioned though, thanks for the ideas.

Go look at some naked women. =P 

My problem doesn’t stem from not understanding female anatomy or being unable to draw it. I think the problem lies in my being unable to draw the female form without the exaggerated anatomy that you always find in the comics. This is my first proper attempt at drawing anything but your typical big breasted “hottie” … but perhaps I bit off more than I can chew by going in the exact opposite direction.

[Questionable]

The only thing I see that's holding back this female from appearing female is your use of lines. You have sharp angles all over the place.

Try drawing her without any straight lines, not as the final piece but just as an experiment. Also, in your last concept piece it seems as though her torso is sprouting from her hips, it has this odd faun/satyr look to it.

I understand that you're going for a tom boy look but most tom-boys are STILL women, what makes them instantly recognizable are their "chosen appearances." A Baseball cap, a hoodie, a short hair cut. They like maintenance free but still girly. You've drawn a man with boobs, there's nothing here that makes her a girl which is your MAIN problem. The tom boy thing is easy, her attitude will tell us that.

Let's focus on what Misj said. Curves!

[Ionias]

Ok, it took me longer to get back to this than I expected. Here are my final pencils on her, and unless anyone sees any glaring suggestions I’ll commence the inking. A lot can be done in the inking process and any final ideas will be taken into consideration.

[Stefano]

Go look at some naked women. =P 

My problem doesn’t stem from not understanding female anatomy or being unable to draw it. I think the problem lies in my being unable to draw the female form without the exaggerated anatomy that you always find in the comics. This is my first proper attempt at drawing anything but your typical big breasted “hottie” … but perhaps I bit off more than I can chew by going in the exact opposite direction.

Yeah I find that pretty hard to accomplish too, specially when there isn't a formula available (such as hotties)!
But I use references even when I don't intend to create a photographic human being, though. Mainly to check proportions once in a while...
Here's what I mean:

[Ionias]

Well it’s certainly true that a picture is worth a thousand words as your sketch proves Stefano. Thank you so much for taking the time to draw out what everyone has been trying to get thru my thick skull. It’s so easy to see my problems with the side by side comparison.

Anyways, here is where all this work and C&C ended me at. Here are the final pencils and ink/color:




What do you guys think? Myself, I think its nicely improved.

... and in case you’re curious here is the final rendering of her sprite as she’ll appear imported into AGS in-game.

x1 x2

[Trent R]

Excellent, IMO. Shows both feminine and tom-boy.

Can't wait to see the other characters and the entire game.

~Trent

[Stefano]

Wow! Excellent job, Ionias.
I'm glad my raw image helped, even if only a tiny bit.

Niptick: The white pixels on the AA of the lines...
they'll probably pop up against darker backgrounds?

Anyway, "The Adventures of Fatman" was the very first AGS game I played back in the day so I'm really eager to see more/play this one.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I think it's improved nicely, Ionais.  About the only issue I see is she still suffers from the manly shoulder effect. Think of female shoulders as being concave rather than convex from the neck to the upper arm and you should have no problem  8) .

To put it visually:

Less like:


More like:

[Ionias]

Excellent, IMO. Shows both feminine and tom-boy.

Thanks, and might I just add, finally.

I'm glad my raw image helped, even if only a tiny bit.

Thanks, and your image helped a lot. Being able to see my character’s skeleton flaws pointed out visually was very helpful. I’ve read the 6 ½ heads rule(s) and such but I must admit I’ve never paid much heed to them, ha-ha. Well, I’ll certainly try and take them into account more in the future.

Niptick: The white pixels on the AA of the lines...
they'll probably pop up against darker backgrounds?

I’m not sure why when I export as a .gif from Photoshop that my transparency gets a little screwed up. In the game when I import it as .png it all looks fabulous and all those AA pixels with their accompanying alpha channel all blend into any color background with perfection. I must give props to CJ for that alpha channel.

Anyway, "The Adventures of Fatman" was the very first AGS game I played back in the day so I'm really eager to see more/play this one.

“Back in the day...” eh? Wow, I really do need to finish another game one of these days, maybe even this one, ha-ha.

I think it's improved nicely, Ionais.  About the only issue I see is she still suffers from the manly shoulder effect. Think of female shoulders as being concave rather than convex from the neck to the upper arm and you should have no problem  8) .

Thanks for the feedback ProgZ, here are some samples of where I tried to incorporate your suggestion. However, with the new shoulders, she seemed to lose my style so I made a compromise with the “final” version of her. But you tell me which version of her you prefer?



… and thanks for the visual. I’ve no idea why visuals sink in so easily and descriptions don’t. I guess it’s why I prefer comic books to the “real” thing, ha-ha.

[Ryan Timothy B]

Ya, I like the Curves much better.  I think the Final is too broad and square.  I still get the tomboy impression from Curves.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I think the version with curves looks much better, though the final is still better than the original if you are determined to use sharp edges.

[Trent R]

I actually like the original best of those three. The shoulders in the 'final' look sharp and pointy and therefore unnatural.

But, I'm not an artist like those above me.

~Trent