schoolgirl punching

EagerMind · Mon 31/07/2006 07:50:08

Hello, everyone! I've been lingering on these forums for a while, but I've just now finally summoned up the nerve to post.

I've been working on this sprite for a while, and have reached the point where I need some help.

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I'm actually quite happy with this except for the head. It's a lot better than when I first started, but I can't seem get the face and hair to look ... attractive. The only difference between the two versions is her bangs. I've been fiddling with her hair and various facial features for a while, but I can't seem to make much of an improvement. Any suggestions and/or paintovers would be greatly appreciated! (In case it's not obvious, she's supposed to be wearing pigtails. The 2nd one is behind her head pointing "into" the screen.)

Of course, any other suggestions are also welcome. You can check out my "references" at http://www.flickr.com/photos/kozyndan/141420977/ and http://www.cosmates.jp/shop/product_info/pid-1560.html.

Thanks!

Theeph · Mon 31/07/2006 08:08:45

Welcome to the boards! (Well, ya know. In a registered capacity)

Heh... how to improve? Make a music video of version 1 kissing version 2 in the rain behind a chainlink fence whilst onlookers watch. You'll make millions. Oh wait no that's been done.

Actually, on a serious note, it looks great. Here's a *really* quick suggestion for the head. Just an idea, and you're probably better off waiting for someone more talented to reply, hehe.

EDIT: Oh hell why not:

Alynn · Mon 31/07/2006 08:35:54

Theeph painted over the one crit I have... her lips were HUGE. Like if Fairuza Balk and Juilia Roberts had a kid and inherited both their mouths...

Secondly is the skintone the only difference between version 1 and two... I don't see much of a huge difference.

Finally, the skirt seems to rise a bit too much in the back... So much in fact that a rear view would probably completely reveal the bottom part of the buttocks, at least from this angle that is what i would expect... I'd say expand the bottom of the skirt 2-3 pixels to give it more fullness heading toward the back. Of course, if her butt is hanging out of the back of the skirt, then it's perfect

Also for the second part of Theephs post, you must now animate them kicking, Rockette style

earlwood · Mon 31/07/2006 09:42:45

Something about that posture just seems a bit wrong, like everything almost has this 'floating' kind of feeling, I'm not sure what it is.

Maybe you could lower the skirt, make her a bit shorter, and possibly thin the upper leg a little bit. Anyway, aren't her breasts little too large for a school girl?

Oz · Mon 31/07/2006 09:57:57

Quote from: earlwood on Mon 31/07/2006 09:42:45
Something about that posture just seems a bit wrong, like everything almost has this 'floating' kind of feeling, I'm not sure what it is.

She seems to be leaning backwards slightly. Try centering the feet under the body, or moving them back slightly behind it.

Theeph · Mon 31/07/2006 10:32:44

Quote from: Alynn on Mon 31/07/2006 08:35:54
Like if Fairuza Balk and Juilia Roberts had a kid and inherited both their mouths...

Alynn thy name is FEAR

Quote from: Alynn on Mon 31/07/2006 08:35:54
Also for the second part of Theephs post, you must now animate them kicking, Rockette style

Profuse apoligies for the O/T but I just have to:

Be obscene! Be be obscene!

Actually so as this isn't a complete off topic post...

EagerMind - it's pretty obvious (from the fact that you said you've been around on the forums for a while) that you've been skilling up on sprite drawing, because this is pretty darn polished for a first post.

My question is why the weird pixel ratio? It seems to be based off multiples of 3. I think this is why you had issues with drawing the mouth too wide. If it was multiples of 2 or 4 it would have been easier to do, IMHO. Not that it matters of course. Just curious.

EagerMind · Mon 31/07/2006 18:24:09

Wow, thanks for the feedback everyone!

Yeah, I guess those lips were a little out of control. I just didn't know how to fix them. Theeph, nice paintovers. Definitely something I can work with. I especially love the dreads - you've almost got me reconsidering her hairstyle!

As for some of the other comments: I don't have any formal art training, so I made this sprite by tracing over a model to get her basic shape (a la Kakfa's Koffee tutorial), picked the colors off another sprite, and drew the uniform on her using my references. It's amazing what you can accomplish doing this, but I wish I could say there was a little more creativity/originality behind it. But maybe someday I'll be able to draw something like this from scratch ....

As a result, I didn't make many conscious decisions about her posture or pixel ratio. I just scaled the model down to the height I wanted and let the width take care of itself. I did have to redraw her legs, since the model I was used was walking (not standing), so maybe that made her posture a little "off." I don't find this 3/4 view particularly easy to work with (one of the reasons I traced a model), but I'll see if I can find some tutorials and take another look at her.

As for her skirt, well, I lived in Japan for 2 years, and they do get pretty short. It can make riding an escalator quite an experience. But, I'm going more for sexy than obscene (although I guess that's eventually the viewer's decision), so ... I guess I'll lower it a bit ... grudgingly.

I'll get a new edit up when I can!

Mad-Hatter · Mon 31/07/2006 19:19:14

Her lips look two big.

Maybe if you just make her mouth smaller...?

aussie · Mon 31/07/2006 20:22:43

Like somebody said, there's something a bit odd about her legs. I've pushed them back one pixel to show you what this means, though it doesn't make that much of a difference.

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EDIT: I'ver tried to make her arm a bit more natural, and shortened her torso like Gilbot said.

Mad-Hatter · Mon 31/07/2006 20:27:03

And her socks. They look way too baggy. Maybe that was what you were going for, though?

Theeph · Mon 31/07/2006 23:29:46

Quote from: EagerMind on Mon 31/07/2006 18:24:09
I especially love the dreads - you've almost got me reconsidering her hairstyle!

It tickles me to imagine a bubbly Harijuku chick bouncing around, talking in extremely fast Japanese, pausing every so often to say "Jah! W'appan? Ev'tin arie?"

Quote from: EagerMind on Mon 31/07/2006 18:24:09
As for some of the other comments: I don't have any formal art training, so I made this sprite by tracing over a model to get her basic shape (a la Kakfa's Koffee tutorial), picked the colors off another sprite, and drew the uniform on her using my references. It's amazing what you can accomplish doing this, but I wish I could say there was a little more creativity/originality behind it. But maybe someday I'll be able to draw something like this from scratch ....

No, this is the best way to learn! Besides, it's more or less the same as drawing something yourself. You still have to paint over it, so I think thats where the originality is.

Quote from: EagerMind on Mon 31/07/2006 18:24:09
As for her skirt, well, I lived in Japan for 2 years, and they do get pretty short. It can make riding an escalator quite an experience. But, I'm going more for sexy than obscene (although I guess that's eventually the viewer's decision), so ... I guess I'll lower it a bit ... grudgingly.

The obscene thing was actually an oblique song reference. I am a card-carrying member of the short skirt fanclub.

Reminds me of when I first showed my wife GTO. She was horrified at the escalators in the first episode...

Evil · Tue 01/08/2006 03:52:27

Quote from: aussie on Mon 31/07/2006 20:22:43
Like somebody said, there's something a bit odd about her legs. I've pushed them back one pixel to show you what this means, though it doesn't make that much of a difference.

Seems to me her skirt was too far forward, and there wasn't enough "from the back", making her look butt-less. Basicly shifted the skirt right one pixel, along with some other small things that didn't change much. I adjusted the bust, but looking at it, there's not much of a point to it.

EagerMind · Tue 01/08/2006 07:18:20

Well, I think we're a little bit closer:

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1. Changed "The Lips" and her hair
2. Smaller boobs :'( and, as a result, adjusted the tie so it continued to fall naturally
3. "Rotated" her skirt and belly button (that dark brown pixel right where her tie ends) one pixel to the right
4. Shifted her lower legs one pixel to the right to fix(?) the posture/legs issue

I think she's looking a lot better now. But some things I'm still not sure about:

1. I don't know that I'm happy with her pigtails yet. It still looks like only a ponytail to me. I'd prefer to have her hair falling behind her shoulders instead of on her shoulders (like Threeph had in one of his paintovers), but without seeing her second pigtail, I'm not sure it's clear what it is. Maybe I'm just being too nit-picky?

2. Now that I'm looking at it again, her skirt still looks kinda funny.

3. Does anyone else think her leg warmers look like cheese graters? I needed to give them some extra width because they looked like soccer socks after I changed her legs, but I'm not sure I succeeded.

I want to thank everyone for their suggestions and edits up to now, they've really helped a lot (I hope you'll agree!). Please keep them coming!

Mikko · Tue 01/08/2006 07:44:22

I still think she is leaning a bit back. I tried to correct it quickly, but I'm not sure did I make any progress:

Changes:
- upperbody little to left
- arm bending
- bellybutton pixel down
- one pixel shorter legs and longer upper body

Alynn · Tue 01/08/2006 10:21:40

Actually Aussie's edit made me figure out what it was...

When aussie edited it made her quadrecepts stick forward a bit which make her look more balanced, the way you currently have it, it makes her hamstrings leading up to her butt look huge... from this angle I believe her quads would show up a bit more... barring that she doesn't have some thunder theighs....

And there is nothing wrong with big boobs on a school girl... my exwife had D's in 10th grade (15-16 years old)

Gilbert · Tue 01/08/2006 10:38:48

Actually in my opinion her upper body was too long already, Mikko's edit made it even longer, especially when she was supposed to be Asian (am I right? since the reference pics were Japanese girls). I'd rather the upper body be shortened than even making it longer.
(I didn't mean there aren't real people with long torsos though, just not common, if it's meant to be long then it's fine.)

aussie · Tue 01/08/2006 14:22:52

Quote from: Gilbot V7000a on Tue 01/08/2006 10:38:48
Actually in my opinion her upper body was too long already.

I agree. I've edited my previous "paintover" to reflect that.

EagerMind · Wed 02/08/2006 07:36:24

Well, I've got two versions now, because I couldn't decide which one I liked better:

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What an amazing improvement! New edits since the last time:

1. Changed the hair a little bit. I think I'm finally happy with it.
2. Changed her legs, moving them another pixel to the right, giving her more quads and less hams. Also did a little rework on the shading.
3. The upper body for version 2 is 3 pixels shorter than version 1.

Taking a look now, I have to agree that v2 looks better proportioned than v1. That kind of surprises me, since it deviates from the model. But, v1 does have that kind of gangly, uncomfortable teen look about her.

Well, I guess it's time to start working on a walk cycle ...

Theeph · Wed 02/08/2006 13:05:02

Looks good!

Good luck with the cycle. If you have any, lend me some

EagerMind · Sat 26/08/2006 03:18:44

Well, with the help of lots of Kill Bill music, I finally got a walk cycle done.

I suppose I should mention that I'm planning on using this gal in a fight game - think Double Dragon with schoolgirls and yakuza. I've included a sprite from the original Double Dragon game so you can get a feel for what I'm going for.

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(x3) double dragon sprite:

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I think for the most part I succeeded, but she seems a little stiff to me. In particular, there's not much movement in her upper body. Any suggestions for making her look a little more natural?

Of course, if there's anything else that people would like to comment on, let it out! Thanks!