3D Studio Max Tutorials?

[shbaz]

by dynamics and simulating cloth he means assigning mass to objects and creating a scene where the objects interact through a physical simulation moving and rolling and bouncing and deforming like cloth

Oh, like Topix cloth. As I said, such things are considered toolkits and aren't included in the main binary to save filesize (in consideration of those who would never use them and to load tons faster). There are lots more, like MakeHuman, which is Blender's free Poser add-on. I haven't tryed it, I think a downside is that you have to make your own hair and teeth.

However, I guess it's a bad thing for people who would rather rant about how crappy it is than actually see if the features are available.

On a side note, I guess most Blender'ers are reading this, so check out Volume II of the user guide, recently released.

[Pesty]

I didn't learn a damn thing. The version we were using was an outdated educational version that lacked many of the functions of the professional version. The books we had to use were for an even older, more outdated version of the program. The teacher didn't really teach us, because he had another class at the exact same time (mainly because there were only 4 of us in the 3D Studio Max class). The computers in the particular building don't have internet access, so using online tutorials was out of the question unless I printed them out from home or something. If I were to try and use the program now, I'd have to teach myself how to really use it, and I would probably have to use online tutorials. And, yes, I would have to use a pirated version of it.

Sounds like your reputable technical school just wasn't so great to me.. My school had internet access in every building no matter what they taught there and all of the programs were the very latest there were. I would suspect that most "reputable high-quality" schools wouldn't have any situation like that at all, because I've seen results from students of art schools at CGTalk and the results were quite nice. You're wailing on anti-piracy because of a fault in your education.

As for the Blender argument, sure some companies may be using it now, but most still use 3ds. Let's say someone learns Blender's interface and become top 3d modeller supreme! Let's say this person goes into a job interview. "I see you know Blender. We use 3D Studio Max....

Nonsense, I know of Maya users hired in 3DS studios and all other combinations. If the final result is the same and doesn't take any longer, they're not going to give a damn. 3D modelling is the same in every program, with different key combinations and additional/less features. The better artist gets hired, because that's what really matters.

Where did I say anything about Maya? Where did 'wail on anti-piracy'? Listen, I'm just saying that education isn't ALWAYS the best option. I'm just trying to help you understand a couple of the greys instead of the black and white you're trying to argue with. To be honest, I don't like piracy (of the software kind, of course). I don't pirate. All of the programs I have I own, except for a couple very hard to get games and such that I delete after I play. I, personally, am anti-piracy. But that doesn't mean I can't see both sides of the issue. And that doesn't mean I have the right to yell at everyone who DOES pirate.

[Gregjazz]

Yes, I'm talking about cloth dynamics.

I've used Blender for quite some time now (just for that 'programming games' part), and I definitely prefer using 3Dsmax for modeling and rendering and animating. There's a reason 3Dsmax is being sold and Blender is free. Think about it.

The only reason I have a legal copy of 3Dsmax is because I get a huge discount on it. Otherwise I wouldn't have it. It is very expensive, but let's face it: it's worth it.

Oh, and why I find the camera movement awkward? The camera pivot point is always wrong and it just feels unnatural. I've used more 3D programs than just 3Dsmax, so it's not because it is what I am accustomed to.

Okay, so maybe your against piracy. Just say so and leave it at that. But please please stop trying to force your values on everyone else.

Okay, so you buy some pirated software from China/India. Consider the $2 charity. They've got to eat too.

[shbaz]

Where did I say anything about Maya? Where did 'wail on anti-piracy'? Listen, I'm just saying that education isn't ALWAYS the best option. I'm just trying to help you understand a couple of the greys instead of the black and white you're trying to argue with.

It's irrelevant whether you were talking about Maya or not, I'm saying that studios aren't dead-set on their artists using only one tool (IE Maya users being hired in a 3DS studio). If you're amazing in one app, then chances are you're going to be amazing in any of them once you get a feel for it. Knowing every feature in 3DS doesn't mean crap if you aren't an artist. I think they're not going to care if you know Blender better, and they might hire you anyways because they can spare the $3k and get the same results. I think this because..

I know of Maya users hired in 3DS studios and all other combinations.

I'm not arguing black and white, I don't care if she pirates, I'm just pissed that you guys are talking down a worthy open-source project that I've had great results with. It's always the same crap too, "Bad interface, it doesn't have this or this.." and usually the problem is with the user and not the application.

There's a reason 3Dsmax is being sold and Blender is free. Think about it.

Uh, why don't you think about it. Blender wasn't released for free because it was crap (on that note, is AGS crap because it's free, thus making all costly apps better?). Initially there was a "C-key" which was bought, and then there was Publisher version for sale which was meant to compete with web applications like flash. After that, the sources were bought for $100,000 US by the Blender users and some corporate sponsors and it was made an open source project. Since only 6 months ago, major strides have been made with Blender and major strides will continue to be made. One day it's probably going to be better than all of the pro applications.

If you've ever programmed on Unix, it's like VI. It sucks at first, but once you know the key combinations suddenly you're doing everything you did before, but 3 times faster.

[MrColossal]

but isn't Geoffkahn the only one who said the blender interface is trash? I think he's entitled to his opinion just like you are for yours. If his first impression of Blender was "This sucks" than isn't that fine? It shouldn't make your experience of Blender any worse. My first impression of Blender was "What the hell is going on here?" and i deleted it in probably 10 minutes. That's no slight to the good work they're doing at Blender, I've just put more work into learning 3dstudio Max and I don't want to learn an entirely new interface. The same reason I don't try out any of the other free programs.

and pesty didn't say anything bad about Blender as far as I can see...

bah, anyway

[shbaz]

No 3d app is simple so far as I'm concerned, nor is it simple to obtain genuinely good results.

Gimp is not Photoshop but can do the same thing in the same way that Blender is not 3DS Max but can (usually) do the same things (especially in modelling).

http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21246&highlight=rhino
http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php4358
http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24704
http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24454&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24386

Actually, generally anything by RobertT or endi at elYsiun is going to be good.

[Pesty]

Look, I'm sure Blender is great, But we're getting WAY off topic. This post isn't 'Let's all argue about piracy and which program is better', it's 'let's give yufster some tutorials'. If she hadn't hinted at the fact that she got her program illegally, this post would've died off after people gave her good resources. Which people have done. Now, I'm not trying to be a mod or anything, but maybe someone should start a new post that is actually about what you're all arguing about and let this one either die off or get locked, so that people who are actually looking for 3D Studio Max tutorials won't get confused.

[Esseb]

Jeez Shba. Eric makes a post in which he doesn't say anything bad about Blender and you're trying your best to prove that it isn't bad. Take a nap or something and come back tomorrow.

[shbaz]

My post was first directed at Yufster, that there were tons of beginner tuts for Blender and that it is a good app to start on because of all of the online resources here.

Then, enter:

I've used Blender, and frankly the interface is trash.

and

"I see you know Blender. We use 3D Studio Max. If you want to work here, you'd better learn the interface." This someone declares, "But I am so used to Blender! And it does just the same stuff as your expensive program!" Let's say someone else comes in to interview with the same company at a later date. "Yes, I do know 3D Studio Max," This elseperson says. "I am well versed in the interface." Now, if you were the company, who would you chose? The person who would have to learn a whole new interface and program, or the person who already knows the interface and program?

The More You Know!

Typical misinformation and sarcasm.

I wasn't directing anything toward Eric, and please don't tell me to take a nap.

I still maintain that if you follow the guide or (if you can find recent ones) online tutorials you shouldn't have a problem with Blender, people who have problems with it are the ones who go in and say "I can't understand this" and promptly leave. Those who care enough to learn will. Those who have 3DS max don't care because they already know and have 3ds Max, as Eric stated above. Yuf just started with it, so why not try another app? The user guides explain it quite nicely.

[Gregjazz]

Okay, I'm sorry I said some pretty harsh things about Blender, and the interface is just my personal opinion. Don't get offended. I'm happy that you like Blender and it's working out for you.

If you had a choice between Blender and 3Dsmax 6 (free of charge), which one would you pick?

Shbaz, go take a look at some images and movies made with 3Dsmax6. They'll be sure to amaze you! What other 3D renderer is able to actually render individual light photons when lighting a scene?

[shbaz]

If you had a choice between Blender and 3Dsmax 6 (free of charge), which one would you pick?

I'd like to try 3DS actually, especially because of some of the things it has that Blender still lacks. I still think Blender will catch up though, because features are popping up fast.

Shbaz, go take a look at some images and movies made with 3Dsmax6. They'll be sure to amaze you! What other 3D renderer is able to actually render individual light photons when lighting a scene?

Yafray (which is internally used in Blender).



Sub-Surface-Scattering is more impressive if you've read up on it, very cool stuff. I don't know if it's in 3DS Max or if you have to export to another renderer. Gollum used it, as did some Lucas characters in Star Wars. As I said, it's coming in Yafray (and Blender).

The images are the work of the artist, not the tool (for the most part). I've seen some pretty crappy stuff done with every prog.

[Pesty]

Typical misinformation and sarcasm.

Misinformation? Look, I was just making an example. If you were a boss at a company and you used Blender (woe for me to say you'd use anything else) and someone came in to work for you and they had no idea how to use the interface, would you spend your resources to train them to use it or would you hire someone who already knew how to use Blender? Think about it before you get pissed off at me for no reason yet again.

Shbaz, seriously, you are taking this all WAAAAAAAY too seriously. Unless you, like, MADE Blender, or invested a lot of money in the creation of it or something, you should really think about not reacting as if we were talking about your first born child or something. Lighten up.

[DGMacphee]

The '3D Studio Max' Thread
a short play by DGMacphee
(based on a true story)


Act 1

Cale: I need 3D Studio Max tutorials.

LGM, Minimi, Peter Thomas: OMG Piracy is a crime!!! You shouldn't pirate cause it's a crime! People who pirate are weak and stupid! Use Blender!

Cale, Geoffkhan, Pesty: STFU!!! Stop being so sanctimonious! You're all jealous! You won't get a job if you use Blender! Feed people in India and China!


Act 2

shbazjinkes: Blender rules!

Geoffkhan and Mr Colossal: No, it sucks.

Pesty: And people won't employ you if you use it!

shbazjinkes: WTF?!?! You're all full of misinformation and sarcasm!!!


Act 3

DGMacphee: I'm going to write a play about all this and win a Tony Award.

Brian Dennehy: The winner of the best play for 2004 is... DGMacphee!

DGMacphee: Sweet!

ENDE.


(Note: This play rocks!)

[Gregjazz]

Hahahah, yes indeed that play rocks!

Wow.

Okay, back to the original question from Cale.

[Brian Dennehy]

Anb the winner of the best play for 2004 is... DGMacphee!

[DGMacphee]

SWEET!!!

[Pesty]

That play rules.

Back on topic, try here, Yufster: http://www.maxhelp.com/ They have some starter tutorials that might be helpful, as well as some advanced ones if you get bored with the beginner ones.

[shbaz]

For generalized game art tuts and focused crits, check out CG Talk. The sticky links at the top will point you to good 3d info.

[Cool Guy]

You're all F00ls! :

Who need crap 3DSMUGS or Brenda if you have 3D Design Plus?

It even worked with Windows 3!

3D Design Plus RULEZ!

CSG RULEZ!   

[MrColossal]

I'm not arguing black and white, I don't care if she pirates, I'm just pissed that you guys are talking down a worthy open-source project that I've had great results with. It's always the same crap too, "Bad interface, it doesn't have this or this.." and usually the problem is with the user and not the application.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't be forcing this on but I just have to ask... So... Freakin'... What?

Is Geoffkahn's [cause Pete said NOTHING bad about Blender] opinion something that thousands of people listen to? Is there a huge community of people who use Blender now totally sad because Geoffkahn doesn't like the interface and chooses not to use the program? Are the creators giving up? "That's it, some guy somewhere said he hated it... Shut this down... Shut this all down..."

Again, you love the program Hooray! Thousands of people love the program Hooray! Thousands of people hate the program, So what?! Some people hate photoshop which I think is the bee's knees, it's absolutely fabulous for sprite art and animation and it doesn't matter if people hate it...

I'm not being sarcastic or snotty so don't read it that way, por favor...

And also, I'm sure there are many companies that will train you in programs you don't know if your portfolio is strong and they feel the effort is worth it, when representatives from LucasArts came to my school [which is a very respected art school and had some really crappy computer courses, so yes Pesty, school isn't always the best place to learn things] they said they would train someone if their work was strong. But anyway...

Yufster: If you want to learn 3d studio max, read the help file and the tutorials. They aren't the best tutorials but the help file is great. Then I really think you should find a way to download movie tutorials because they help so so much.