A UFO theory.

[MrColossal]

First off, can you please hide whatever spoilers you have about the new Xfiles movie in hide tags.

Secondly, those explanations are nothing. They are just people sitting in a room saying "WHAT IF THIS?!" and then not going any farther. They don't explain anything and they are stupid. I hate to be so blunt but if you ask me what I think of those explanations I say they are totally stupid and any show you are watching that offers those are real conversation points is a worthless pile of crap and is insulting the human race every second it's on television.

Also, I hate that people who believe in vast conspiracies of aliens visiting the planet ask you to just open your mind a little bit and offer countless videos for you to watch but when the best explanation about what happened at Roswell is offered up in a video it gets ignored.

Evidence will change my mind about anything, what would it take to change yours?

[The Meek Geek]

 :o Whoa! :o  Chill man! I didn't mean to offend you! Don't overheat...Drink a cold beverage...

First off...it's not a spoiler about X-Files: I Want To Believe, I haven't even seen the movie, and that VERY brief story line I mentioned, was a VERY brief synopsis of the story...that I read in a Newspaper Review. I wasn't trying to give away the ending. Anyway, I apologize if I said too much about the movie. I'll be more careful when talking about movies on the Forum in the future. Moving on...

The UFO topic...I said the material was from a Science Fiction Station...and I did not say it was from a History or Discovery Channel. I was having some fun with the topic. Didn't mean to hit a nerve.


There's no reason to hate people. You can dislike with what they say or hate what they do, but there is not need to hate people.


And I didn't say it was my opinion. Anyway. I'd better withdraw from this topic. It's rather... sensitive.

[Domino]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/skeith2572/iday2.jpg

This is proof that UFO's do exist!! 

This is a picture of evenwolf filming the president while a huge alien ship is coming into earth's atmosphere.

edit: I posted this pic years ago in the picture thread. I just happened to remember that i did it and thought it would be funny to add here. GO INDEPENDENCE DAY!!

[MrColossal]

VGOTheMeekGeekVGV

I glazed my eyes over when I thought you were going to talk about the movie, I apologize if I came off harsh on that matter.

Also, I'm not mad at you and I certainly don't hate you. No worries, I was just reacting strongly to the subject you posted, not you the person who posted.

I didn't say I hated anyone either. That bit wasn't even about your post. So it's all good.

Domino:

Is that the secret shadow government president? Because it sure doesn't look like the president of the US to me! YOU CRACKED THE CASE!

[The Meek Geek]

MrColossal:

No problem. Heck, I've got to learn to not to blab, and not take myself too seriously. Heh!

Don't stop having fun!

Have a great summer! 

Domino: I LUV that pic! President Pullman, er, Whitmore is in charge! You didn't have any problems with the Secret Service did you? Heheh. I love that inspirational speech he gives in the UFO movie, Independence Day.

[Ryan Timothy B]

I love that inspirational speech he gives in the UFO movie, Independence Day.

Inspirational speech?  Excuse me?  I haven't seen Independence Day.  Could you please hide that crap with some hide tags, you're ruining the movie for the rest of us!  hehe  (joking)


Domino.  You're releasing the old footage of Evenwolf and the President.


This image is the one just before Hancock flew in to be the President's bodyguard.

[LousyScribe]

You know, when I was in Iraq we would see all kinds of lights in the night sky that moved in weird ways and did NOT act like regular aircraft.

This indicates to me that I and my buddies had very active imaginations, we were being visited by aliens, or there is NATO technology that the general public, that includes us grunts, is not privy to.

Since me and my boys are kind of dullards and can't find a way to entertain ourselves that doesn't center around pelting each other with pebbles, I guess that rules out the first. The second is unlikely.

The third though...

Plausible deniability was a popular catch phrase in the Army.

[Nacho]

"Roswell, Inconvenient facts and the will to believe", By Karl T. Pflock.

It' s a book by a man who is a die-hard UFO believer (but also a serious investigator, very odd in this "Ufologists world"). He basically says that Roswell is crap... Well, Pflock, says that everything shown as an evidence of alien visits till now is crap.

And he is believes in UFOs... and has been pursuing lights for decades.

[Krysis]

Ok, let's try this for the sake of the argument...

If someone tries to prove there are giant flying blue monkeys in the sky, what's the best evidence he can forge? Just theoreticly.... He can photoshop a picture, he can make up a fake witness story so he gets some atention, he can even tape some wings on his cat and shoot it from a great distance with a sellphone at night. Does this prove the existence of giant flying monkeys? Some "Sceptics" would say they need more evidence. True believers will believe in flying monkeys even if there is no proof, so any little bit of evidence would convince them.
No matter how stupid or crazy an idea is someone somewhere would believe in it.
Got my point?

[Nacho]

Once a beliver said "You won't believe in Aliens even if you get a photo of them waving its hands out of the saucer and yelling "hey! we' re here, sucker!".

He was right... As seen in youtube there are now amazing CGI animations of UFOs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up5jmbSjWkw

The funny thing is that this films are allways one or two steps behind of Hollywood SFX, and arrive just when those animation tools reach to the amateur film makers. ¿Coincidence? Mmmm....

But the "genuine UFO" films DO NOT SHOW an "alien waving it's hand out of the saucer". They show nothing. Only lights in the sky... As said, I don' t think someone would travel for millions of years through the universe to switch the lights on and leave. It' s rediculous... It' s lime me flying for 35 hours to reach Sydney,  buying a coke in the soda machine at the terminal, and then come back with no further visit.

[EldKatt]

Evidence will change my mind about anything, what would it take to change yours?

...

[Nacho]

Evidence will change my mind about anything, what would it take to change yours?

...

Can you develope your reply?

[EldKatt]

Evidence will change my mind about anything, what would it take to change yours?

...

Can you develope your reply?

Is that necessary?

Seriously, though, the sentence quoted from MrColossal essentially sums up 1) one of the most healthy attitudes you could possibly have about the world, and 2) one of the most crucial reasons why superstition, conspiracy theories and any other forms of pseudoscience generally fail to yield results or progress: the failure of its proponents to adopt that attitude. Hence quoted and appended with smiles, because it's damn important.

[Nacho]

That smiley can makes missunderstandings... It wasn' t clear if you where LAUGHING of Mr. C' s statement because you consider it crap, or if you where SMILING because you agree with it. Thanks, much clearer now. 

[EldKatt]

Ah, good point. And thanks for asking.

[MrColossal]

Then again, the main problem is that someone will present evidence that they fell is legit and someone else can point out how it is not legit or at least extremely suspect but for the believer it just comes down to a matter of he said she said "We could both be right!" scenarios. Or "The proof is there for me." and there's no way to refute that because they don't want scientifically verified proof.

So saying that evidence will convince me is quite a simplification of what I actually need. But still, it's a sound bite!

[Nacho]

I think that the line of what a "reliable evidence" is for "sensible people" is quite clear... Eric and me could try to answer that if you really want...

What is sure is that, if people believes according to the "evidences" we have now, their "line" is much closer to the start line that Eric' s and mine. If somebody wants to jump to my jugular, chill, I am just saying that their line is in another place than mine, I don't mean they are insane, stupids, fools or naive.... Well... maybe they are naive, but nothing negative else.

[evenwolf]

Domino: I love it. Hehehe.  My sister's wedding... and she's even had time to get a divorce since then!
Ryan:   Man, Hancock was an asshole.   He wouldn't let me get 50 feet near the president and all I wanted was an interview!



I think the last several posts refer to what James Randi calls the "unsinkable duck".      The stubbornness that wanting to believe and being open to these pseudosciences means that you are  being more reasonable than people using the scientific method.

Evidence in most pseudosciences comes in the form of a list.    "Well there's an orb of light in this photo...and there's a clicking sound on the tape.... and there's NO other explanation." 

There's plenty of explanations but the desire for their explanation to be true blinds them from the process, so they are in perpetual limbo of arguing that *we* are the closed minded ones.    Might be about UFOs, ghosts, or god himself.    Belief is downright scary.   You might say that believing never hurts.   I'm damn sorry but many of my friends were witnesses (and victims) of this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7529450.stm

That happened in my neighborhood.  That's 3 minutes away from my house... I drive by it everyday and if I wasn't an atheist I'd probably attend that church.

[Nacho]

The truth allways reaches the surface, sooner or later.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/east/series3/rendlesham_ufos.shtml

Not in the way UFO believers want, though... The most famous UFO case in the British Island was not this:


But this:

A 1979 Plymouth Volare.

Nothing to blame to the witness... They are fuckin similar... 

[Ryan Timothy B]

The most famous UFO case in the British Island was not this:
[picture]
But this:
[picture]
A 1979 Plymouth Volare.
Nothing to blame to the witness... They are fuckin similar... 

Ok, am I completely dense (more than likely) or had someone actually mistaken a car for a 'ufo'?  Or were you making a point I didn't catch?

(Ok: obviously I must have been tired.  I didn't even notice your url tag in your post.. Doh!)