A UFO theory.

[m0ds]

Ha! Well that's a pointless question to me Eric, cos you know I'm all in favour of the possiblity of ghosts. But perhaps for one of the others, skeptic types...

I think you're better off prepared for people to disbelieve that even your quote makes any sense.

Nacho, again, maybe you just haven't focussed on things in the sky enough in general. There are plenty of videos of satellites in IR, and now there is a slow gain in IR videos of objects moving "intelligently". When I say "I double check these things and have experience" does that filter through your head as "duh nuhh blurrh nerr" or something? I'm not a dunce, I know what I'm doing. You know how to ride a bike and I won't tell you how, I know how to spot alien intelligence, so please stop saying I don't know how. You know how before you can drive a car it seems like a massive task, then when you can it's as easy as pie? Well spotting AI is like that. You think it's going to be hard and you need scientific verification and governments to admit, but really, it's a piece of pie. The fact we are strictly told (by folks like NASA) that there "isn't anything (yet)" makes it even easier to spot that there really IS and that they are continuing to deny it.

We could all have a far more interesting conversation if we could just get past this "no there aren't" factor. I'm still a bit annoyed that anyone from a predominently western civilisation could still think that we are either a) alone in the universe or b) NOT being visited by ET's - and I can't quite tell if you agree to those two points but want to make my life hell, or whether you just don't agree. Either way, it's frustrating.

It was really Ryan's comment's that pissed me off, and I'm sorry you're getting the brunt of my anger on it. But it's not a great idea to say what I do is sad. I sit here working on music and games most of my time and so some videos on the side isn't exactly SAD. That surely is to say everyone else using their PC like I do is sad, and err, thats like a community of about 4000 Mr Timothy

Both your comments have been quite insulting to my intelligence, but I don't mind. Just think of it like this, would you tell one of the decent AGS artists that their art, good as it is, isn't art? And would you expect to be able to walk away from saying such a thing with a huge grin and everyone else believing you're right? You're effectively calling me a schmuck who's buying into this and believing fakes. I'm coming here telling you I've had experiences and that I can show you video evidence to open your minds a little bit. You're basically telling me that what I'm knowledgable about is a load of bull, and that's insulting. And that's probably why very few other people are questioning it - they're a little bit more open minded.

Now this doesn't bother me or offend me, you know just cos I'm typing this doesn't mean I'm going to hold it against you, and hopefully vice-versa - but it still has been on my mind throughout the day. I'd just say stop replying to my messages if you don't believe, I don't have time for you anymore. Enjoy your cake & day-time TV. I have bigger things to go a-solving, and I'm interested to speak to other people who think the same way. Or is everyone here just so passive and busy with worldy shit?

[MrColossal]

I think it's a valid question even for a believer in ghosts, Mods. What makes those aliens visiting the planet and not ghosts of dead relatives floating in space? If I were to follow contemporary pop culture they are not ghosts because ghosts live in old houses and don't float thousands of miles into the sky. But is that reason enough to dismiss them as ghosts? To dismiss them as ghosts you'd have to have some other evidence that makes them corporeal or binds ghosts to a set of rules, I think. Right now there is just footage of something moving.

Personally for me there are a lot of unsolved UFO cases not because there is evidence for UFOs in the case but because there isn't enough evidence for anything. These people filmed something in the sky, I guess that's really as far as we can go with this video. There is no more reason to think they are extra-terrestrials from another planet visiting us than there is to think it's ghosts in space than there is to think it's something more natural. I'm not trying to discount your beliefs I'm just curious how you'd refute the idea that they are ghosts in the space. Conclusions are an interest of mine I guess!

[Vince Twelve]

Those aren't aliens, they're just His meatball eyes, rolling around the sky, watching over us all.

[Matti]

I'm still a bit annoyed that anyone from a predominently western civilisation could still think that we are either a) alone in the universe or b) NOT being visited by ET's

a) I think it's rather unlikely (at least not definite) that we're alone in the universe, cause it's really really big. I guess it's possible that somewhere out there could be a planet similar to earth with some lifeforms on it, may it be bugs, apes or (already) intelligent humanlike creatures.... but that has nothing to do with some floating spots in the sky..

b) Well, as soon as I encounter an alien, I'll say: "Yes, it's true, we are being visited by aliens". Again, this has nothing to do with a blurry YT-video.

If you're really annoyed about that (b) , then after the same logic, people who believe in god should be annoyed about nonbelievers. They don't see or feel god.. then why should they believe in him?

This is a rather standardy question, but I never got an answer to it: Why the hell should any technically far developed civilization send some guys on a oh-so-damn-long-they'll-never-see-their-family-again- trip to earth, just to cruise around its orbit until someone has made a blurry video about them, and then start their journey home? What a stupid thing to do would that be!

[Galen]

I've been doing research. Stars are not visible via IR video records... Seems we have a fake, here.  

Stars give off light (or rather, radiation, if you want to be technical) in the entire electromagnetic spectrum? Why wouldn't they show up on a video?

[Nacho]

The correct answer to "Are we alone in the universe" is not: "It's very unlikely", Mr. Matti... The correct answer, actually, is "We don't know".

Anyway, the Fermi paradox almost proves we are not visited by aliens.

[RickJ]

Stars give off light (or rather, radiation, if you want to be technical) in the entire electromagnetic spectrum? Why wouldn't they show up on a video? 

You must be joking right?    Ok, I'll bite...

First of humans can't see the entire electromagnetic spectrum, only a small portion of it.  Electromagnetic radiation that people can see is referred to as (surprise-surprise) visible light.  People can't see IR (Infra-Red) because it is not visible light.

Second of all even if humans could see IR, IR images would not show up on a photograph, film, or video unless the film or video recorder were sensitive to it.  There is no point in goingto the expense of making video recorders that are sensitive to IR because nobody would be able to see it any way. 

Thirdly, even if people could see IR and all video recorders could record it there would still not be very much to see because the earth's atmosphere filters out almost all of it. 

Wikipedia - "The principal limitation on infrared sensitivity from ground-based telescopes is the water vapour in the Earth's atmosphere, which absorbs a significant amount of infrared radiation. For this reason most infrared telescopes are built in very dry places at high altitude (above most of the water vapour in the atmosphere). Suitable locations on Earth include Mauna Kea Observatory at 4205 meters above sea level, the ALMA site at 5000 m in Chile and regions of high altitude ice-desert such as Dome C in Antarctic...."

Astronomers are able to make IR images visible to the human eye by using false colors (i.e. frequency shifting IR image into the visibe spectrum).  You can click here to see a false color IR image of the Milkyway captured by the Spitzer Space Telescope.
http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/Media/mediaimages/zooms/ssc2006-02a/index.html

and some other images here
http://www.ipac.caltech.edu/Outreach/Edu/sform.html

[Nacho]

Mark, if I offended you, sorry that' s why I stopped posting here, not because I ran out of arguments or because I think I was offensive, but because I don't want to piss it off and unadvertedly offend you in the future.

But I do not agree. Let's agree in that. ^_^

[Ryan Timothy B]

Anyway, I'm going to apologize.  I didn't mean it to offend you.  My wording was a little harsh.  And I didn't mean to say you were sad, just your means of research was sad: youtube.  But I thought about it later on, and realized....

What if I, myself saw this killer UFO.  Like I literally saw it, without a freakin doubt.  If I recorded this UFO with my little camcorder, the first place I would go would be some news station.  More than likely the news station will spit in my face telling me it's not tangible proof to show the world, ie: could be altered, etc, therefor making them look bad.
So where else would I go with this video?  Obviously youtube would be one of my first choices.  I don't know of any other video websites, and youtube would definitely give the attention to my video discovery that I feel it deserves.  But obviously others would be screaming 'fake', 'this guy is a loser', and with a hand full of believers that may support it.
You never know though, eh.


Either way, Mark.  You really do set yourself up for any type of criticism.  If you believe these videos are authentic, you really shouldn't attach so much belief in them to others.  Like saying: 'here is definitive proof'.  But it's really not proof.  Even the video in my hypothetical situation wouldn't be definite proof.

And you also said: And for the skeptics [..]
Well I'm a skeptic, and I responded as a skeptic.

I don't know.  Even that video you had several months back about the triangular area where clouds weren't visible on Google Earth, but the surrounding area was filled with clouds.  You do realize (from my knowledge on this) is that these images are pieced together from satellite images that are in constant rotation.  Obviously a triangle would be formed by a linear (?) path going around the Earth.  For the satellite to video a large portion of land, it would have to be done in several passes.  That's why when you look at things closely, shadows in one section are different.  Perspectives are different.  Even sometimes it's fall/spring in one section and summer in the other.  Etc.  Sometimes there is cloud covering certain land masses and they have to grab that area on a separate pass; and from my understanding, that could take weeks.

Anyway, if you're sitting outside one night and you see and record some crazy freakin UFO, aliens, humans, whatever (obviously to you it would be just a UFO in it's true sense, which would be an Unexplained Flying Object. That acronym is usually perceived as Alien for some reason.) toss me a link of the video cause I'd love to see it.

And as for the thought of aliens already being discovered and hidden by governments would be extremely difficult.  There would have to be some sort of an alliance between every country that has discovered this.  Which makes things really really complicated.  Although I can see that if the crew of the NASA's International Space Station had seen ships flying around, that the government would tell them to keep their mouths shut.  It would spread mass panic to millions and millions.

When I was a kid, I couldn't look at the night sky without my first thought being: Aliens.  I was always on the lookout for some sort of glimpse of a UFO.  But lately I dunno, I guess I read too many science fiction books (and, chariots of the gods) and realized how implausible it was.  And seeing the millions the government spent on the listening dishes makes you wonder why they would go through all those lengths to 'pretend' they don't know there have been Alien visitors already.

Either way, it all comes down to this...
I would ABSOLUTELY love you to be right.  I would love for there to be a day when you can come on the forums and say, "Oh btw Ryan, screw you! I was right!"
Hell, I get the shivers every time the UFO's descend into Earths atmosphere in Independence Day.  I can just imagine my feelings if it were really happening.

Anyway, I probably won't avoid posting my criticism in here, but I'll try to lower my harshness setting a little.

Oh, and btw, I forgot to mention in the previous thread that I actually really enjoyed your episode 6 on your UFO Watch.  I'm not just trying to soften you up after me taking you in the arse in my previous post.  It was actually entertaining and funny, also with good photography and editing (in the beginning, which was the best part of it).  Your voice got really quiet in some scenes, you should either do a dub over or have a wireless mic (but I think I remember you saying in the Ben Jordan Movie thread that your camera didn't have a mic input).
Just can't believe you purposely fell at least 5 times for that ending scene just for the alternate camera shots.  It was really funny.

[Travis Anthony]

Guys calm down!  I'm backing you up here, Mods!  I too have experience in what others may laugh at!  I used to banana slide quite a bit when I was younger.  You may actually call me a professional slip-slider-banana-rider!  This guy right here is a PRO!  Yes, that's right, me, a PRO!  There's actually two things that I'm pretty good at though.  Banana man riding and YOUTUBE!  If it's on Youtube, its gotta be real!  That's just the way it works.  They put all the fake stuff in those celebrity magazines.  So I too am in your position and feel hurt when Mr Timothy cracks the accuracy and quality of youtube videos!

I too have a video that most will just not understand.  Take a deep breath and reel it in.  This is 100% real.  My skill in banana slidin' & ridin' says that this can be done!  Like I said, total expert on wet slides right here!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wAjpMP5eyo

See!  Now everyone is a believer!  But we all know that some people out there just won't accept the genuine artwork on Youtube (aka Mr Timothy).  Tisk tisk.  Sad really.

Spoiler

  lol sorry I couldn't resist bud.  I just wanted to have a bit of fun.  I'm a PRO ass!  Yup, that's me!

[close]

But a side question... Did any of you's ever blow bubbles when you were a kid?
Well, he's back in town! lol

I'M A BELIEVER!

[Galen]

Stars give off light (or rather, radiation, if you want to be technical) in the entire electromagnetic spectrum? Why wouldn't they show up on a video? 

You must be joking right?    Ok, I'll bite...
*snip*

I don't remember saying humans couldn see anything other then visible light but I'm talking about cameras here. Since stars give off all kinds of light we should be able to see them no matter what. The part about the water vapour in the atmosphere absorbing infrared light is what I wasn't aware of and to be honest the rest of your reply didn't really have much bearing as far as I could see.

[RickJ]

I don't remember saying humans couldn see anything other then visible light but I'm talking about cameras here.

Ok, let's suppose your camera could photograph an infrared image.  The image is still in the IR spectrum; how would you propose to view it? 

Since stars give off all kinds of light we should be able to see them no matter what.

This isn't true at all.  Different frequencies of light (EM radiation) interact differently with the interstellar medium.   Specific frequencies are selectively emitted or absorbed by gas or dust particles depending on what elements the gas/dust are composed of.  Also lower frequencies are less attenuated by dust pafrticles than higher frequencies. 

... and to be honest the rest of your reply didn't really have much bearing as far as I could see.

The rest of the post consisted of a brief description and examples of how and why IR astronomy is used.  For  example the Milkyway galaxy when viewed in visible has black areas void of stars.  This is because their visible light is blocked by dust.  IR light, however, can penetrate the dust and be seen by the Spitzer IR space telesope.  The linked image shows the results using a false color technique.

[Nacho]

I am a bit lost in this discussion, RickJ, I must confess... too much tecnical stuff! So, to summarise... What do you think about the video that Mark posted? 

[RickJ]

You mean the one with two white spots moving around in the dark?   About the only thing that can be said is there are two white dots moving around in the dark against a background of the night sky.   Since there is no indication of how far away they are from the camera there is now way to know how big or small they are or how fast they are moving.   Oh, ... and the night sky looked quite lovely.

[m0ds]

There clearly is indication as far as I see it though, we see satellites moving in the image for the first 50 seconds, and we also see a bird cross camera at a much lower altitude. The objects there are high altitude. I'm fairly sure you intelligent people can see the altitude is high too, but you're convincing yourself it isn't.

As for the ghosts, very interesting point actually eric, one I'll come back to in a few days when I repost maybe



Oh, and whoever did this in 4 hours is a genius. That is assuming it's pissed up students with planks...

[RickJ]

Mark, I'm not trying to be a jerk, I  just don't see how you measured/perceived distance from lens to object to be at a high altitude?   

Perhaps we know that aircraft operate at some range of altitudes and that they sometimes have lights.   So when we see lights moving in a night sky we have an unconscious expectation of where they ought to be. 

[DutchMarco]

Warning - controversial (political) views ahead, proceed at your own caution

I have developed my own little theory about (visits by) ETs - they're here to drop off some of their kind, not kidnap humans.
You know how Australia has gotten populated by caucasians? Because it was a penal colony for the British government to get rid of their criminals. (Ryan, I'm not trying to offend you - or anyone else - by this theory!) Well, likewise, planet earth is a penal planet for some technologically (but not morally) advanced alien race, who ditch their crazed inmates on earth.
When here, they gather themselves in what we know as "political parties" - the aliens suffer from incurable political correctness, wihch is the reason their government wanted them removed from their society, to prevent it from spreading and infecting/harming their own. As we all know, political correctness tends to be aimed at the western / earthly society as a whole, so the aliens are so miffed about not being on their home planet anymore, that they take their frustration out on us, because we're available, and gullible..

OK, so this theory isn't to be taken seriously, even if it is the only reasonable explanation for some (the majority) of current (and past) politics. Oh and I also don't believe that we're alone in the universe - even though there's a good chance thatalien life-forms haven't yet developed beyond the larve-stage yet, have yet to climb out of the water into the trees, nevermind about them having developed intergalactic space travel yet.

Oh, and furthermore back on topic: no, I myself don't believe in ghosts. The way I look at it, even living humans don't have a soul, and therefore, there is no part of living humans that can continue existing after death. If the mechanism which makes up the "soul" dies, so does the "soul" (mind) which exists as a result of that mechanism (the brain).

Oh, and I remember many years ago, at night, I coudldn't sleep and was staring out the bedroom window, when i saw 3 dots of light close together in the sky, slowly moving apart from eachother, I sat there for quite some time, looking at it, and they kept moving apart slowly, until I lost sight of them (they moved out of -the window- frame), and shortly thereafter I went back to sleep. but later, when I looked out the same window again, I noticed that our neighbour's house was in the way, and I couldn't have seen the dots in the place I remembered seeing them. This had me puzzled for a while - both at what the points could have been (not an aircraft as I first thought, they moved way too slowly and in the wrong directions for that) - and aftre noticing the house, maybe it was a sleep-induced hallucination.

[Nacho]

Mark, I'm not trying to be a jerk, I  just don't see how you measured/perceived distance from lens to object to be at a high altitude?   

Perhaps we know that aircraft operate at some range of altitudes and that they sometimes have lights.   So when we see lights moving in a night sky we have an unconscious expectation of where they ought to be. 

No, by the way they move, by the info we have in the video, seems that is something that is:

-Higher than 20/30 meters (By the movement, I don't think they are bugs or something small moving close to the camera... The motion is too regular... Unless they are big bugs that fly quite high)
-Closer than infinite.

Nothing else...

[Atelier]

If/when the hostile aliens come to earth, all of the skeptics and cynics will think otherwise. Take the Orson Wells broadcast for example. I expect a fair proportion of the people that fled were devout doubters a few hours before hand.

What does an alien look like anyway? I've read testimonies from victims of all kinds of alien encounters, and all of them contradict each other about the appearance of the attacker. If you were accosted by an alien in your nightclothes I'm sure you wouldn't be able to recall all the tiny little details.

I don't conform to the conventional portrayal of green men in space suits though, but I definitely think there are beings of other kinds lurking in the abyss up there.

[DutchMarco]

Stars give off light (or rather, radiation, if you want to be technical) in the entire electromagnetic spectrum? Why wouldn't they show up on a video? 

You must be joking right?    Ok, I'll bite...

First of humans can't see the entire electromagnetic spectrum, only a small portion of it.  Electromagnetic radiation that people can see is referred to as (surprise-surprise) visible light.  People can't see IR (Infra-Red) because it is not visible light.

Second of all even if humans could see IR, IR images would not show up on a photograph, film, or video unless the film or video recorder were sensitive to it.  There is no point in goingto the expense of making video recorders that are sensitive to IR because nobody would be able to see it any way. 

Thirdly, even if people could see IR and all video recorders could record it there would still not be very much to see because the earth's atmosphere filters out almost all of it. 

Wikipedia - "The principal limitation on infrared sensitivity from ground-based telescopes is the water vapour in the Earth's atmosphere, which absorbs a significant amount of infrared radiation. For this reason most infrared telescopes are built in very dry places at high altitude (above most of the water vapour in the atmosphere). Suitable locations on Earth include Mauna Kea Observatory at 4205 meters above sea level, the ALMA site at 5000 m in Chile and regions of high altitude ice-desert such as Dome C in Antarctic...."

Astronomers are able to make IR images visible to the human eye by using false colors (i.e. frequency shifting IR image into the visibe spectrum).  You can click here to see a false color IR image of the Milkyway captured by the Spitzer Space Telescope.
http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/Media/mediaimages/zooms/ssc2006-02a/index.html

and some other images here
http://www.ipac.caltech.edu/Outreach/Edu/sform.html

To add some spicer to the IR on camera-issue: One tip for anyone who thinks that his IR remote contrrol is broken, you ca test that by pointing it at your digicam (like on your cellphone)Your digicam’s monitor will show a small dot  when you push a remote button and it works. So you should be able  to record IR-light of stars or UFO’s on a camera. (assuming that this light isn’t filtered by the atmosphere.