Anonymous?

[Radiant]

Meh ... one's no better or worse than another to me.

Well, you can either rely on your first impression to be absolutely infallible, or you could read into what facts are actually available on the different groups.

In particular, whether actions were the result of small extremist factions where in fact the larger religious group has a completely different opinion, or of authorized doctrine from the global leadership where the entire religious group tends towards the same sentiment.

Or you could stick your head in the sand, if you prefer. It's always easier to stick with set preconceptions, than to do actual research.

[GarageGothic]

If you have time, watch the multiple-hour interview with Fishman on google video: http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Scientology:+Steven+Fishman+Deposition

I watched this a few weeks back, and I must say it's the most fascinating documentary I ever saw- and it's just an un-edited interview. It's excellent as an exposure of Scientology and their methods, but even more so as a portrait of an obsessive-compulsive guy with a religious mania. Everything he says is pure gold, and just wait till he shows off his collection of video tapes of his favourite TV show.

Edit: If it seems a bit slow at first, stay with it, the third part is where the madness really kicks in.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Oh, when I have the time, I plan to watch the whole thing. The very first question in the very beginning had me enthralled.

[[Cameron]]

And try elaborating your point more, relying purely on sarcasm seems kinda juvenile.

It's very simple: Religion doesn't kill things - people do. Do you know how many millions of Muslims haven't blown themselves up, and have no intention of doing so?

It's like the IRA. Thirty years ago, people looked at Ireland and said "OMG, it's a warzone down there - they're all killing each other on the streets." It's not true. The IRA are a group of dickhead terrorists, they are not the actual Irish Republican Army (in case you were wondering). Al Jazira are a group of dickhead terrorists - they don't represent Islam.

Just like Eric Harris and that other douche don't represent atheism...

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. But the thing is about Scientology is that it is their religion that gets people killed. They don't believe in medications, and many people with mental illnesses end up committing suicide because they can't handle life without their medications. It's not just the few black sheep, it's the whole religion that believes this. A few of the people in Jonestown didn't believe they needed to commit suicide, does that mean the religion was any less dangerous?

[voh]

Like Anonymous, I have nothing against the religion itself - if it helps people, then it's fine by me. Anonymous has a problem with the Church of Scientology, which is the organization behind it. So when you talk about this whole thing, don't pull the 'this religion isn't worse than X' card, because it's a moot point, since it's not about the religion, it's about the CoS using their power to ruin people's lives, that there's a 'fair game' system that allows Scientologists to attack those who openly diagree with/attack the church.

Anonymous knows this.

[DanielH]

As I see the CoS (or Church of $cientology as anon calls it) It cannot be a religion because you have to pay. I feel a little scared terrified thinking in today's world, you have to pay to believe something.

[Darth Mandarb]

My head is not buried in the sand...

Anonymous can whine, bitch, moan, and protest all they want and guess what?  It will make no difference.  People have been bitching about Scientology for the better part of 50 years and they're still here.  They have a right to be here.  Just because we don't like 'em, doesn't change that fact.

I have done enough "research" into this matter to backup what I said in my last post.

• Scientology hasn't backed any Crusades that slaughtered countless Jews and Muslims (including women and children).


• Scientologists didn't hijack planes and fly them into buildings a few years ago.

So people can rally against the Church of Scientology all they want, and people can rally for it ... makes no difference to me.  From my own point of view, I don't like "pissin' in the wind".  Meaning I don't like taking a stand on something that will make no difference.  It's a waste of time.

People who are opposed to Scientology are entitled, those for it are entitled as well.  It should be pointed out that I'm not wild about Scientology (or the Church of Scientology since it seems important to point that out though I don't see the distinction really) I'm just pointing out things as I see them.

As far as "paying" to be a Scientologist ... I've been to countless Christian masses and watched every time as the "donation" plate was passed around.  Week after week ... so the fact that you have to pay for the Church of Scientology still doesn't set them apart from other churches to me.  They all take your money in some fashion.

[MrColossal]

Do you really think because things happened in the past, things should be allowed to happen in the future?

Lots of people have protested lots of things for more than 50 years. Just giving up because the thing you're protesting hasn't been shut down completely is a poor plan. You bring up bad things other people have done for their religious views, why not stamp out a growing religion now instead of wait for them to commit larger scale atrocities that will affect you?

If no one was bitching [which is a great word to diminish the arguments and efforts people are making against scientology] for 50 years, who knows how much more power and influence they'd have now.

[Darth Mandarb]

I absolutely marvel how people get so heated at these kinds of debates.

Keep on protesting if you want.  I never suggested that people shouldn't protest ... simply that it's a waste of time that I won't take part in.

What the Church of Scientology might have done, without any of the protesting in the past, is pure speculation.

What all of the Churches (including Scientology) have done are the facts I take into consideration when forming my opinions.

Now don't get me wrong ... I find Scientology (and those that practice/preach it) incredibly creepy.  I'm not supporting Scientology in anyway.  Just expressing my opinion on the matter.

Do you really think because things happened in the past, things should be allowed to happen in the future?

No, nor did I even suggest that.

[Radiant]

I never suggested that people shouldn't protest ...

Actually you did - you called it hypocritical and selfish.

Some people have experienced nasty things with the COS and wish to protect others. You don't want to take part in that, because it hasn't affected you personally. It is left as an excercise to the reader which of the two is selfish.

[Darth Mandarb]

I never suggested that people shouldn't protest ...

Actually you did - you called it hypocritical and selfish.

Actually I didn't.  I expressed my opinion about Anonymous' protest.  I didn't say they shouldn't or couldn't protest.  Just as the CoS has the right to exist, the people have the right to protest.

Some people have experienced nasty things with the COS and wish to protect others. You don't want to take part in that, because it hasn't affected you personally. It is left as an excercise to the reader which of the two is selfish.

No offense intended but that's a silly point.  A lot of people have experienced nasty things at the hands of Islam and Christianity as well.  Is it selfish that they aren't protesting against Scientology?  There are a lot of things I don't like and don't agree with ... If I protested all those things my entire life would be spent in protest.  That doesn't seem like a nice way to live.

I'm guessing that you're getting this animated about this subject due to some experience with the CoS so please understand I'm not attacking you nor defending Scientology.  If you believe strongly in a fight against Scientology, by ALL means fight the good fight.

[Emerald]

But the thing is about Scientology is that it is their religion that gets people killed. They don't believe in medications, and many people with mental illnesses end up committing suicide because they can't handle life without their medications.

Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in blood transfusions - lots of them die because of this. I don't see anyone wailing about that all over the internet (much)...

To be honest, I don't see the big deal. Have any of you ever read Dianetics? It's just a self-help book. And it's not bad, either (he basically just steals from Jungian psychology)

Sure, the leader's an asshole, but beyond that I wouldn't believe all the internet fear-mongering.

[vict0r]

Darth, try to read up on the story of the town of Clearwater FL if you have the time. Or maybe operation snow white?
The protest aren't necessarily about stopping scientology, but to inform people about it as you'll have to pay plenty before the church actually does..

[Emerald]

inform people about it as you'll have to pay plenty before the church actually does..

I'm pretty sure membership is free. It just costs money if you wanna learn humanity's terrible secret

Spoiler

we're all an alien experiment

[close]

or become, like, a 'science-bishop'...

There's lots of scientology clubs around, in every country. Are you honestly telling me that they're all devil-worshiping baby-eaters?

[vict0r]

inform people about it as you'll have to pay plenty before the church actually does..

I'm pretty sure membership is free. It just costs money if you wanna learn humanity's terrible secret

Did you actually read what I said? In the cult of scientology, you'll have to pay for enlightenment or information.
They aren't devil-worshipping baby eaters, but rather thetan-worshipping baby brainwashers.

[MrColossal]

I absolutely marvel how people get so heated at these kinds of debates.

I just want to say that I'm not heated. I just asked some questions. You may feel attacked by other people posting but I'm typing very un-emotionally. Just didn't want you to feel attacked by what I wrote.

[Emerald]

Did you actually read what I said? In the cult of scientology, you'll have to pay for enlightenment or information.

Costs a shitload of money to go to a private Catholic school to become 'enlightened'.

Hell, it costs 200 bucks an hour to go to a psychiatrist and become 'enlightened'.

Scientology is a self-help club that calls itself a religion. Where's the evil in that? They're just a little bit ahead of themselves.

I bet you could make up all sorts of shit about what modern medicine has done to people. And I'm sure it would be technically true. But that doesn't mean medicine doesn't help people, too.

[Darth Mandarb]

Just didn't want you to feel attacked by what I wrote.

No worries ... wasn't feeling attacked really.

Darth, try to read up on the story of the town of Clearwater FL if you have the time. Or maybe operation snow white?
The protest aren't necessarily about stopping scientology, but to inform people about it as you'll have to pay plenty before the church actually does..

Church does what?

I think (as usual on the AGS forums) that my point isn't getting through.

I do not care about or support Scientology any more or less than I do any other religious group/church/organization (which is to say very little).  What "it" has done, is doing, or might do in the future isn't surprising to me and I don't really need to read countless examples of the bad things carried out in it's name to justify people's dislike of it.  I don't like it either.  For every atrocity committed by the CoS I can find one (or 10) committed by other religions that have been around longer.  It's all the same to me ... I really am not sure why this concept is hard to grasp?

It seems like everybody is under the impression the I'm defending Scientology.  Which I'm certainly not.

[Emerald]

I agree with Mandarb. Scientology rocks!

[Darth Mandarb]

I agree with Mandarb. Scientology rocks!

Man ... I actually laughed out loud at that!

Too funny