Are Christians (and other religious zealots) completely brainwashed anymore?

[Emerald]

People have nothing good in them actually, they just follow their basic incstincs, searching for pleasure and evading danger.

That's a very general statement. A rainbow is just sunlight refracting through droplets of water (basically), doesn't mean it's not pretty or meaningful...

[Stupot]

But... Evolution IS possible... it stopped being a theory a long time ago.
I don't see why it has to be one or the other...
I don't believe in God but even if I did I would still have to look at the proof and concede that evolution is what brought us here today.
Whether or not that evolution was God's doing is another debate altogether.

In terms of your religion Mr. P... I would suggest that you look at the evidence and ask yourself what YOU believe.  If you believe in God then your are more than welcome to that belief... but there is nothing that says you HAVE to follow any particular set of organised religious rules.  Believe the bits you actually do believe and not the bits you feel you must believe in order to be a true Christian.

Any particular ready-made religion is a kind of brainwash because it doesn't give you the chance to mix and match your own beliefs.  It's all-or-nothing faith that punishes and/or alienates those who don't buy the whole package.

[InCreator]

If you believe in God then your are more than welcome to that belief... but there is nothing that says you HAVE to follow any particular set of organised religious rules.  Believe the bits you actually do believe and not the bits you feel you must believe in order to be a true Christian.

I agree.
I don't remember exact spelling, but in a bible somewhere was something that loosely translated as "don't seek me in the churches, you won't find me there" or something like that. The point was that it is not a church where one should look for God. I believe this goes for other catholic stuff too, you don't have to sing or drink Jesus' blood or anything else to believe, because belief comes from within, not from acting something or someone "on stage". And not thinking as some amount of flock, because people are often simply stupid. So some Christians bashing you at forum or something isn't something to lose faith to.

I mean, baggy pants won't make me a hip-hop fan and cross above my bed or on my grave won't make me a Christian.

But if all of above doesn't help you, act like a good Christian and turn the other cheek. Both suffering and human sacrifice (whoa, indeed... ew) is what's Christianity was BUILT onto.

[Fee]

I give people respect untill they show me they dont deserve it, i believe everyone deserves a chance, end even a second chance and that people should be free to do what they want, as lond as they arent hurting other people.

Why?

Well not because some priest tells me I'm going to hell if I'm dont try to be a "good guy", but because of the way i was raised and because of the lessons ive learnt in life from doing stupid shit.

A bit off topic:

Lesson No 1:
If you don't act like a "good guy", people hit you.

Lesson No 2:Psychological Egoism


People have nothing good in them actually, they just follow their basic incstincs, searching for pleasure and evading danger.

Exactly my point.
You dont need some stupid religion to tell you to be good. There are consequences in doing the wrong thing in life, not after death.

[lo_res_man]

Maybe, maybe not. We really don't know either way about the afterlife. But the consequences in this life are mostly artificial.In a democracy if I could get enough people to agree with me, I could make murder legal, I could outlaw chocolate, and make the rivers run with pudding! And in an absolute monarchy, if I was the ruler, all I would have to do was say so. I am not saying you can't be a good person without religion, but it helps to have an excuse. Religion can be that excuse, or it can be an excuse to commit atrocities that should sicken any human being alive. On the other hand, it has given people the courage to do great good.
But on your own, your like on a floating island in space, nothing underneath, no foundation except a vague concept of human decency. If that is enough, fine good for you. But I don't think I am strong willed enough to create my own good like that.

[twin-moon]

and make the rivers run with pudding!

Really? That'd be great!

I am not saying you can't be a good person without religion, but it helps to have an excuse. [...] But I don't think I am strong willed enough to create my own good like that.

I find that hard to believe (no pun intended). You're saying you wouldn't be able to know right from wrong if you weren't religious?

[lo_res_man]

Really? That'd be great!

Not for the fish  Besides,swimming  in pudding would get a bit sticky.

I find that hard to believe (no pun intended). You're saying you wouldn't be able to know right from wrong if you weren't religious?

No, I thought I made that clear. I just think it helps to have something you believe to be solid, rather then something that is admittedly arbitrary. So is religion, but the difference is you believe it to be solid.

[Lionmonkey]

In a democracy if I could get enough people to agree with me, I could make murder legal...

Since that would produce a huge amont of rotten, half-eaten by rats and cannibals smelly corpses lying everywhere, most people wouldn't like it. Maybe that's why murdering a person is considered a bad thing to do.

[Akatosh]

Actually, you can't, lo-res. At least not in most democratic states. Since certain international laws (e.g. human rights) are considered to be "above" state legislation (just as federal law is "above" the laws of individual sub-states), it doesn't matter what the law says - human rights say murder is a no-no, and if your country's legislation disagrees: Tough luck, it's still illegal.

Unless, of course, by "enough" you mean about 75% of the population of the states who signed said treaties.

[miguel]

First of all I don't want to insult anyone here,
I was born in a christian country with christian culture surrounding me in more aspects of life that I could not be aware of.
I agree with some things The Church tells and not with other things but that's not what I want to say, it just goes to show a bit of my background.
When humans are filmed, alone, for a extended period of time, one thing you stop seeing in them is God (together with their traces of civilization) , I mean whatever God you believe or I believe.
Human beings, when alone and not knowing/interested if they are being watched become what they really are without civilization/religion: animals.
Primary things like food,water,shelter,cold,heat become important.
The need to act sociable is less and less important with time and phisically humans begin to change. Even the look in their eyes change. The way they move when not watched by others changes, it becomes natural, human.
All this I'm writing has many glitches and you maybe don't agree but the truth is:
WE INVENTED GOD
there was no God before man begun to think and relate together, to live together and work together and have families.
There was no God as we know it before we learned how to write.
god started as a light in the sky, god became feared when somebody told he could control his wrath, god became a legend when he inspired warriors and even a myth when he died to save humankind.
Ok, now you can stone me

[Lionmonkey]

No stones from me, although the format of your reply does seem like a sermon for a new religion.

[Akatosh]

It's clearly got the pathos, at least.

[SSH]

Actually, you can't, lo-res. At least not in most democratic states. Since certain international laws (e.g. human rights) are considered to be "above" state legislation (just as federal law is "above" the laws of individual sub-states), it doesn't matter what the law says - human rights say murder is a no-no, and if your country's legislation disagrees: Tough luck, it's still illegal.

Yeah, but if your daddy was president 9 years before and you're now president, you can get away with it, even if it is illegal...

Some US states have been murdering criminals for a long time. Us brits gave it up over 50 years ago...

[lo_res_man]

Actually, you can't, lo-res. At least not in most democratic states. Since certain international laws (e.g. human rights) are considered to be "above" state legislation (just as federal law is "above" the laws of individual sub-states), it doesn't matter what the law says - human rights say murder is a no-no, and if your country's legislation disagrees: Tough luck, it's still illegal.

Unless, of course, by "enough" you mean about 75% of the population of the states who signed said treaties.

If that would be enough, that would be enough.

[RickJ]

You may find some  of Fr. George Coyne's, former director of the Vatican Observatory, presentatins to be interesting.
http://clavius.as.arizona.edu/vo/R1024/VOFTalks.html

[Huw Dawson]

To be honest, when it comes to accepting scientific reality, the Catholic Church is a darn better than most other religious bodies.

Here is an example.

My local priest yesterday (Easter Sunday) decided to speak out about Chimeras - using Cow embryonic structure with Human DNA to make more fertilised eggs with which to work with - but instead of saying "It is wrong!" - which would have been uncharacterful of him - he talked about how MPs should have the right to vote according to their concience on it. I suspect he is against it - as are many people - but I am for it, but I fully agree with him - ethical grounds should allow MPs to vote properly, without a whip.

Do you get what I'm saying here?
- Huw

[Lionmonkey]

To be honest, when it comes to accepting scientific reality, the Catholic Church is a darn better than most other religious bodies.

Here is an example.

My local priest yesterday (Easter Sunday) decided to speak out about Chimeras - using Cow embryonic structure with Human DNA to make more fertilised eggs with which to work with - but instead of saying "It is wrong!" - which would have been uncharacterful of him - he talked about how MPs should have the right to vote according to their concience on it. I suspect he is against it - as are many people - but I am for it, but I fully agree with him - ethical grounds should allow MPs to vote properly, without a whip.

Do you get what I'm saying here?
- Huw

It's not the CC, it's the individuals. Some people start cursing, shooting and burning houses when someone does something, which is against their traditions. Some calmly explain their arguments. Some do something else. I think, every religion has got these kinds of individuals.

[yukonhorror]

I didn't read the whole discussion, but I glanced.  Two things.  First, forbidden topics: sex, religion, and politics.  Those roads don't have a good ending. 

Second, from a scientific point of view, I am not saying anything about evolution, but the big bang theory is a bunch of crap.  Thermodynamically impossible.  If that's what happened, only God could make it so. 

Yes a little off topic, but the origin of the planets and species on this planet seemed tied together.  For some reason, certain scientists want to kill God and zealots want to kill science.  They should embrace each other for a truly remarkable understanding of the universe. 

Of course, zealots in general piss me off.  Like republicans and democrats who are so "sided" they can't even think straight.

BOOOOBS

Good, I covered all three forbidden topics.  Now I will be put into PC prison.  See you in 3-5 yrs.

[Stupot]

...the big bang theory is a bunch of crap.  Thermodynamically impossible.  If that's what happened, only God could make it so.

[citation needed]

[yukonhorror]

...the big bang theory is a bunch of crap.  Thermodynamically impossible.  If that's what happened, only God could make it so.

[citation needed]

I don't know the original journal article for the second law of thermodynamics, sorry.