Are Christians (and other religious zealots) completely brainwashed anymore?

[Ponch]

[citation needed]

It's been years since I took a physics class, but as I recall it was something to the effect that thermodynamics prohibits the notion of the Big Crunch (remember that old theory?) because the law of thermodynamics (hereafter "T Law" cause I'm a lazy bastard and that's a long word) prohibits matter so diffuse from being pulled together from across the entire expanse of a flat universe (and, yes, it's flat!) -- something to do with the general weakness of gravity, an energy exchange of some sort, heat flowing at a set rate from a warm body to a cold body, etc etc. As I said, it's been a long time.

But that assumes that before the Big Bang that there was a Big Crunch (which is a theory more or less in the dust bin now). If there was only one creation event, i.e. that the universe erupted from a single point and that this event happened only once in the (pre?)history of the universe, then T Law can get bent, as it (like most of the laws that govern the universe) is dependent on spatial parameters which the early universe was largely lacking (or at best were very poorly defined). Plus there may (or may not have) been a near-equal amount of anti-particles at the time of the Big Bang, which changes the math on everything. There was an abundance of energy at that moment, obviously, and the universe hasn't seen its like since, so modeling that moment and the crucial moments that followed are very difficult as the universe we inhabit nowadays is a pale shadow of the universe at creation (as far as sheer potentiality goes).

In a nutshell, it depends on which universe model you subscribe to: the cyclical universe (Big Bang/Big Crunch over and over) or the non-cyclical universe. The latter allows for a Big Bang if you assume that the single dot of everything had always been there and always been super compressed. Then, "for no adequately explored reason" there is a "horrible space kablooie" and here we all are.

At least, that's what I remember from the bits of class I didn't sleep through. Any of you may have been more alert students than I was, so feel free to correct me if I misremembered something. (Which is very, very likely).

- Ponch

p.s. As I said, it's been years. It was so long ago, that people still thought the universe was spherical or curved, not flat. So everything the professor said might be out the window now.

p.p.s (Fixed some spelling errors. Still early in the morning, I guess.)

[miguel]

Hello you bunch of agnostics,
Ponch: What with the recent theory that our universe has a skeleton?
Could it be still flat?
If the Big Bang theory is crap it really doesn't matter because I learned it was at school, and now my step-son is learning it (12yrs-old) and my son will probably learn it that way!
That's how it works, it's like the Holy Book, four Gospels were chosen but there were many more writen and they aren't acepted. We believe in what we are told, period.
I believe that the Quantum Leaps theory destroyed everything we believed as human race!
It doesn't matter anymore, we all be dead when the world finds out why we are here, and the answer will be very, very, simple. Just don't know what will be.
Stone me, stone me more...      

[lo_res_man]

Hello you bunch of agnostics,
Ponch: What with the recent theory that our universe has a skeleton?
Could it be still flat?
If the Big Bang theory is crap it really doesn't matter because I learned it was at school, and now my step-son is learning it (12yrs-old) and my son will probably learn it that way!
That's how it works, it's like the Holy Book, four Gospels were chosen but there were many more writen and they aren't acepted. We believe in what we are told, period.
I believe that the Quantum Leaps theory destroyed everything we believed as human race!
It doesn't matter anymore, we all be dead when the world finds out why we are here, and the answer will be very, very, simple. Just don't know what will be.
Stone me, stone me more...      

42

[Ponch]

Ponch: What with the recent theory that our universe has a skeleton? .. Could it be still flat?

It was just discovered that our universe is flat and not horseshoe shaped (as Einstein believed, I think) or spherical as many models suggested.

It's still infinite in every direction, but space/time itself is flat. That is to say, parallel lines always remain parallel out into infinity. If the universe were horseshoe shaped, the lines would approach each other, but never intersect (just forming an asymptote). If the universe were spherical, then eventually the lines would intersect, and by definition no longer be parallel as far as space/time is concerned. (Though they would still appear parallel to us, as we're in the same state of existence as the lines are).

Sorry if no one else wanted to read that. I've loved this sort of stuff since I was a kid and they promised me that I would be living on the moon by now.

On an appropriately religious note, got to hide a bunch of Easter eggs for my girlfriend's nieces and nephew this weekend. They ran around like a laughing goofs looking for the eggs, getting grass stains all over their Sunday best. Made me feel like a kid again to be a part of that.

If this world is all there is, then moments like that make it all worthwhile.

- Ponch

[Nikolas]

Second, from a scientific point of view, I am not saying anything about evolution, but the big bang theory is a bunch of crap.  Thermodynamically impossible.  If that's what happened, only God could make it so. 

If only people would stop caring HOW the world started and deal more on how the world IS doing and how it will NOT end sooner than it should (if this applies), everyone would be happier.

This crap about evolution, creation and all that shit is SO boring, SO tiresome and SO back in the past, which makes it really, but really, but really irrelavent to anything really.

God/religion/nature gives a set of guidance. What if one get's cancelled? Does it mean that people will stop believe, or thinking this way. I don't believe in a set God but I do fancy most of the teaching in Orthodox Church. So... I do tend to abide a bit... Am I a sinner? OH YES! Will I stop thinking the "orthodox" way if in the end there is no God? Nope, sorry...

Such a useless debate... poof...

Last time I said something like the above was about dear x-planet Pluto I think, and I hurt dear AGSers feelings. So... no, this discussion is not bad, or the thread, and I posted... But this hugely escallated issue with creationist vs Darwinists vs whateverinst IS.

[Snarky]

Yeah, ultimate reality and beliefs about such matter remarkably little to day-to-day life. Just because people stop fearing God, that doesn't mean society descends into anarchy and mayhem (look at tranquil Scandinavia, where a remarkably small percentage of the population is religious). And just because the average man on the street refuses to believe in some fairly basic science, that doesn't mean planes fall from the sky or the electricity goes out (more than usual, that is).

As for the second law, it's essentially an observation about statistical probability (just consider Maxwell's demon). It holds true because there's a vast number of particles, and an even vaster number of individual events (collisions), involved in any macroscopic process, so the chance of the average outcome diverging significantly from the expected value is infinitesimal. It does not apply on a quantum scale, or to individual events... like the Big Bang. (Perhaps. I don't have the physics to say for sure.)

[Khris]

Most people believe what they want to be true. It's as simple as that. The mind is very powerful in that respect.
Religious people are just deeply afraid of being alone, so they want to "know" there's somebody there who looks out for them.

And here's the controversial statement in my post: all religions are based on sun-worshiping.

[Stupot]

...all religions are based on sun-worshiping.

Absolutely bang-on.
Of course our ancestors didn't have telescopes and science and the kind of knowledge we have today.  It's quite understandable that they saw the Sun as this big golden eye watching over them, providing them with heat, light, helping their food to grow.  The Sun looked after them much like you would expect a decent god would.  Something to be respected, feared, worshipped.

That's why our ancestors had so many gods, one for thunder, one for corn, I imagine, Love, War, you name it.  Back before we had the knowledge to explain these things.   Now that we have some of this knowledge (although I would say we still have a lot to learn), the idea of a God or gods is, to me, anachronistic and pointless...

... but that's just me.

[Emerald]

I always find it beautifully ironic how much all the different religions have in common.

For example, did you know that Catholics, Hindus and Buddhists all use prayer beads with exactly 108 beads? I mean coincidences like that don't just happen - it's like a big worldwide game of 'Chinese whispers' was played about 2,000 years ago, and since then everyone's been arguing about what the exact original message was.

Then again, I don't believe religion has anything to do with the violence in the world. It's just an excuse to kill another person, like having different coloured skin, or a different accent... People will say anything to justify a good crusade or two.

[yukonhorror]

I always find it beautifully ironic how much all the different religions have in common.

For example, did you know that Catholics, Hindus and Buddhists all use prayer beads with exactly 108 beads? I mean coincidences like that don't just happen - it's like a big worldwide game of 'Chinese whispers' was played about 2,000 years ago, and since then everyone's been arguing about what the exact original message was.

Then again, I don't believe religion has anything to do with the violence in the world. It's just an excuse to kill another person, like having different coloured skin, or a different accent... People will say anything to justify a good crusade or two.

Isn't 108 the total of the "numbers" in Lost (tv show)

[Emerald]

4 8 15 16 23 42...

12... 27... 43... 66... 108

Huh. A new religion is born...

[Stupot]

4 8 15 16 23 42...

12... 27... 43... 66... 108

Huh. A new religion is born...

Yeh, this is quite interesting... (if a little off topic)...
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/108

108 is also the number of pence my nearest garage is currently charging for petrol... it's all a big conspiracy I tell thee!!!

[lemmy101]

4 8 15 16 23 42...

12... 27... 43... 66... 108

Huh. A new religion is born...

Considering Dharma has roots in Buddism I'm guessing that was an element of how they came up with the numbers.

[miguel]

69, everytime...

[lo_res_man]

69, everytime...

I still say 42. . .
and thanks for covering up your avatar.