As God as My Witness...

Ali · Thu 27/07/2006 11:13:24

"As God As My Witness..." is something I hear a lot in U.S. television and films, but it makes no sense.

It has long baffled me that an incoherent phrase could be so popular simply because it sounds like it means something. As far as I could tell the most famous example of it is the end of Gone With the Wind but that didn't help explain it.

I though that the phrase must have originally been "With God as My Witness", but in the film Elizabeth a character insists that he is telling the truth "As God is my Witness".

That's a far more powerful statement. "With God as my Witness" just means God can see you. "As God is my Witness" means that the statement you make is true to the same extent that God is your witness.

Sorry for this boresome post, perhaps everyone already new this, or think the origins of odd phrases is dull.

I'd be interested if anyone knows the origins of odd modes of expression. I can't see why Americans (again) are so keen on saying "I could care less" for "couldn't care less", or why we Brits frequently use "literally" when we mean "virtually".

ManicMatt · Thu 27/07/2006 11:18:31

Didn't you just answer your own question? Yes, powerful. Like most sayings, gets overused and loses the sound of effectiveness it once had.

Silly sayings? Like "Frog in your throat" for having a sore throat? It comes from a LITERAL (hehe) meaning of centuries ago when they would LITERALLY stick a frog down your throat to cure your soreness.

It makes me wonder about "cat got your tongue?" $:-\$

Ali · Thu 27/07/2006 11:49:44

Quote from: ManicMatt on Thu 27/07/2006 11:18:31
Didn't you just answer your own question?

I didn't really have a question. I was just interested in any other examples people might have. The "frog in your throat" thing is great. It reminded me of another great phrase:

"Sweet FA" meant sweet Fanny Adams (I'm not sure of the spelling of her surname). She was an American woman who was murdered and dismembered. Her name became a crude nickname for the cheap meat eaten by the U.S. Navy, and finally came to mean "something inconsequential".

Which is quite sad really.

EDIT: I don't know why I thought Fanny Adams was American, the Wikipedia article seems pretty well researched. Curse my memory! I know that Sweet FA is used as an alternative to swearing, I just like the way its origins are so circuitous.

SSH · Thu 27/07/2006 12:37:20

Errrrrr... I think Fanny Adams was used by people who didn't want to swear, actually. And Fanny Adams was British, according to Wikipedia

And as for God witnessing: he's omniscient, and so everything that has happened has God as a witness. Therefore "with God as my witness" you're saying that God saw it, i.e. it happened. "As God is my witness" means that God sees you know and will punish you if you're telling porkies.

HillBilly · Thu 27/07/2006 12:48:46

Quote from: ManicMatt on Thu 27/07/2006 11:18:31It makes me wonder about "cat got your tongue?" $:-\$

This, probably.

ManicMatt · Thu 27/07/2006 15:33:48

Creepy! That was creepy! Good though, although I like happy endings.

Anarcho · Thu 27/07/2006 15:48:42

I think the phrase makes perfect sense (if you believe in God) and that's why so many people use it. It's like if you were to say, "With Steve as my wheel-man, we'll pull off this bank robbery without a hitch." Or "With Suzzane as my witness, I'll never get convicted for that robbery!" I don't see what all the hub-bub is about.

My dad actually has a book on the origins of odd expressions, unfortunately he lives in Florida so I can't borrow it. It's an interesting subject though.

Ali · Thu 27/07/2006 15:58:39

Quote from: Anarcho on Thu 27/07/2006 15:48:42
"With Steve as my wheel-man, we'll pull off this bank robbery without a hitch."

That makes perfect sense (presuming Steve is a good driver), but "As Steve as my wheel-man..." does not.

I am mildly pleased that you described my petty ramblings as a hub-bub, though.

MashPotato · Thu 27/07/2006 16:03:23

This conversation reminded me of George Orwell's essay "Politics and the English Language" in which he discusses dying metaphors and other problems in English writing. It's not exactly on topic, but it's a good read if anyone's interested: http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm

Anarcho · Thu 27/07/2006 16:20:23

OH, i guess i overlooked what you were actually talking about. Or did I? "As God As" sounds bizarre to me, you sure that's what they say in movies? I always thought it was "With God as".

AGA · Thu 27/07/2006 16:23:05

The 'as' thing definitely occurs, I've noticed it too.

Also: Google recognises the 'as' version more.

Anarcho · Thu 27/07/2006 16:30:37

Well, then I guess I agree. It makes sense. Stupid Americans! They're so STUPID.

Ali · Thu 27/07/2006 16:47:30

Quote from: MashPotato on Thu 27/07/2006 16:03:23
This conversation reminded me of George Orwell's essay "The Politics and the English Language" in which he discusses dying metaphors and other problems in English writing.

I'd never read that, many thanks for drawing my attention to it Mash. It is interesting that the extract from the Communist pamphlet sounded far less tired to me than it did to Orwell. That sort of language may have been worn out in 1946 but a lot of modern social commentary lacks even borrowed fervour.

Ashen · Thu 27/07/2006 16:53:14

Surely, as SSH said, it's "As God IS my witness", which makes perfect sense to me. "As God AS my witness" doesn't make any sense, but I've never heard it used outside of this thread. In fact, I'd read this a couple of time before I even realised that's what you (Ali) were saying*, I just read it as 'As God is...' Google recognises 'As .. is' even more than 'As .. as'.

* But then, you do say 'As .. is' in the first post. I guess the origin of 'As .. as' is probably ~~idiots~~ people misquoting 'As .. is'.
According to IMDb at least, Gone With the Wind uses 'As .. is'.

Quotewhy we Brits frequently use "literally" when we mean "virtually".

I've also never heard this.

ManicMatt · Thu 27/07/2006 17:33:09

Actually yeah, virtually and literally mean two different things entirely.

"Virtually fat free!" Meaning it's almost fat free.

"I have a frog in my throat" meaning I got a sore throat.
"I have a frog in my throat, literally." I really do have a frog in my throat.

EDIT: So, in what context have you heard someone say literally instead of virtually?

Ali · Thu 27/07/2006 17:37:46

I should have mentioned that I wasn't certain which version of the phrase Gone With The Wind used. I had presumed it to be "As God As" before I'd heard "As God Is".

I'm convinced that people say "As God As" but I thought it was implicit in my first post that I also believed it to be a corruption of "As God Is". Perhaps I wasn't very clear!

Quote from: Ashen on Thu 27/07/2006 16:53:14
Google[/url] recognises 'As .. is' even more than 'As .. as'.

AGA says the opposite. I'm currently trying to avoid using Google, so I can't check.

Quote
Quotewhy we Brits frequently use "literally" when we mean "virtually".

I've also never heard this.

Really? If you listen carefully during the current heatwave I'm sure you'll hear someone exclaim "I'm literally melting in here!" This happens a lot, I'm sure I've read it mentioned in a dictionary.

Perhaps I just talk to more idiots than the rest of you guys!

Ashen · Thu 27/07/2006 18:23:44

QuoteAGA says the opposite. I'm currently trying to avoid using Google, so I can't check.

If you mean the link he posted, that's comparing "With .. as" and "As .. as", (19,800 and 35,400 occurances, respectively) while mine compares "As .. as" with "As .. is" (35,400 and 102,000). Also, both links are GoogleFight and not actually Google itself, if that makes any difference.

QuoteI'm sure you'll hear someone exclaim "I'm literally melting in here!"

Ah, OK. Yes, heard that, done it myself. But, I actually MEANT literally - I wasn't, of course, it was exaggeration to make a point. I kind of assume that's what most people are doing, to answer your question of 'why'. But, I suppose you should never discount the fact that some people are just idiots and might mean virtually, depending on context. I can't think of a case where the meaning of what was said had been altered because somebody got those words wrong, though.

Also, when do we have the weather for that to be said 'frequently'?

AGA · Thu 27/07/2006 19:12:34

People use literally wrongly because they're stupid. No other reason!

Las Naranjas · Thu 27/07/2006 22:16:39

It's a signal that serves a very important societical purpose. It helps tell those that can use the language who the absolute idiots are. Subsequently we can condescend to them like the fools that they are.

Esseb · Thu 27/07/2006 22:33:53

Quote from: AGA on Thu 27/07/2006 16:23:05
The 'as' thing definitely occurs, I've noticed it too.

Also: Google recognises the 'as' version more.

That may be, but "as god is my witness" wins over "as god as my witness".