Summer means no religion or politics?

[Calin Leafshade]

where everything that is made has a maker, you eventually have to get to something which didn't have a maker.

I would argue MOST things in this universe DON'T have a maker and can demonstrated to be products of natural processes. Evolution gives us life, Stellar phonomona(sp?) give us stars etc etc.

There is no reason to believe that the universe is any different.

The argument from first cause is just another example of the God of the Gaps.

There's no reason why that first cause has to be Yahweh.

I think that for any argument for the existence of God to be successful in any utilitarian way it must not only demonstrate that there is a god but also WHICH god it is.
If i could mathematically prove right now that god exists to the same level of certainty that 2+2=4 it would not help us at all. Atheism (or at least non-theism) would still be the most rational position to hold since the existence or not of god says nothing about the traditional religions held by mankind. You still wouldnt know who to worship.

Personally my money is on Odin because he has the biggest sword.

[Bulbapuck]

where everything that is made has a maker, you eventually have to get to something which didn't have a maker.

I would argue MOST things in this universe DON'T have a maker and can demonstrated to be products of natural processes. Evolution gives us life, Stellar phonomona(sp?) give us stars etc etc.

But people want answers! Religion is the simple way to go about getting those answers. It's quite hard to imagine how it all was created since something must have started it all.

I'm an atheist too, much like you and Scarab. And their are a lot of arguments speaking in our favor, but that doesn't give us the right to tell people their believes are wrong. And the point you're trying to get through is well known, so I don't understand why it needs another person saying the exact same thing that's been said so many times before..

...

Sorry if I come of as an ass, I slept two hours tonight... _{I'm still a fan}

[Calin Leafshade]

I wouldn't say they were wrong.

I would say they are unsupported by the evidence. If they accept that then fine.

I do truly believe the world would be a better place without religion and since i believe religion to be incorrect i would feel disingenuous if i didnt attack religion in the same way i would attack any theory which was incorrect and threatened the education and furtherment of mankind.

[Scarab]

I do truly believe the world would be a better place without religion

I'm not sure I agree. If people just keep to themselves and want to believe in a god then who the hell am I to tell them they can't. It's what people use religion to justify which is the real problem. i.e. wars, terrorism, sexism, homophobia, and racism.
This being said, there is rarely the former without the latter following close behind, so I can easily see your argument.

I've just got nothing against religion in general, I mean, I would be a happy man if someone were to convince me that their religion is based on fact; but I'm afraid I just haven't seen enough evidence.

Peace
Scarab

[TerranRich]

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" - Douglas Adams

[Khris]

'A Universe From Nothing' by Lawrence Krauss, AAI 2009

Long, but worth it.

[Bulbapuck]

Khris, thank you A lot of my questions were answered there.

[Matti]

Yeah, thanks for sharing. It was indeed quite interesting.

[Nickel]

I agree somehow that religion is inherent... Leave a group of man in a jungle and in that generation, the next one or two after, as much, they will invent some kind of religion, [...]

Never is religion inherent. If your lack of knowledge about nature bothers you too much, this situation may encourage you to make up a wrong story about it, but that's not yet inherence.

There even are people in the jungle wich don't have such a wrong story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKb7bNMQ9Ao

The story of Daniel Everett is very interesting: He came to the Piraha, a tribe in the Amazon, as a missionary, to tell them they're lost and need Jesus. But these people don't think they're lost, in fact they are very happy without any approach to religion. So happy that Everett "lost his faith" (and therefore his family), and became a linguist (a happy one).

Thanks for the vid, Khris.

[Nickel]

As most of the people here seem to be non-religious, maybe we could make it more controversial this way:

Nations aren't inherent to people, too. And a fault on the same level as religion.