Some Qs on making a 3D game

Kinoko · Sat 15/04/2006 07:54:50

I'm thinking of a game I'd like to make (eventually), and I'm at the point where I'm starting to consider whether or not 2D would be the best platform for this game. I've never considered a 3D game before in my life, so I have no idea where to start really.

I'm not at the point where I want to actually find programs and play around with them, I'm still very much only thinking conceptually. But, I was wondering if some of the people here who DO have experience with both 2D and 3D game making could help me out with some rough questions I have.

Firstly, are there decent 3D game making engines out there? I'm looking to make something akin to an RPG.

Secondly, would cel shading be much more difficult to pull of than your standard 3D shading?

Thanks!

Helm · Sat 15/04/2006 08:05:31

If your game is otherwise going to behave like a snes jrpg then I think doing it in full 3d is going to be overkill and not much use. If you won't use the third dimension in some gameplay central way, maybe you'd want to avoid this switch.

As far as I know there are no user-friendly engines. There's libraries and languages and whatnot, like Darkbasic 3d, Ogre, I think but they all require some more adept programming knowledge, math, and rudimentary understanding of 3d art at least.

Kinoko · Sat 15/04/2006 08:36:47

I'm not talking about the game I'm currently making, and this will be quite different in terms of gameplay. Not like a SNES RPG at all.

But thanks for the info. I was half expecting there weren't any decent engines for this sort of thing :/

Ali · Sat 15/04/2006 14:42:29

I'm not a big player of RPGs so I don;t know what they require, however Blender's game engine is really quite easy to use. The downside is it's not terrifically fast so you might have trouble creating a complicated exterior location with it.

It can also achieve toon shader effects. The first game on this page has such an effect for the skater girl character:

http://www.blender3d.org/cms/Stand-alones.162.0.html

Blender's also free. And free=good. Except in the case of freemasonry, which is sort of a grey-area.

SSH · Sat 15/04/2006 15:53:59

I'd check out Wretched's demo in the Games In Production: he's made an AGS plugin that makes 3d easy, it seems. Kinda works somthing like Moho, from what I can see...

MrColossal · Sat 15/04/2006 17:39:02

Quote from: Kinoko on Sat 15/04/2006 07:54:50

Secondly, would cel shading be much more difficult to pull of than your standard 3D shading?

I'm going to say yes it would. The majority of engines out there don't just have a button to press that turns on cell shading.

Another engine you might want to check out is the Torque engine which can be pretty if you put the time into it, but it has a big group of people working on it that are always up to help you if you're stuck. It costs money but it's quite cheap, especially if you don't plan on releasing freeware.

Eric

InCreator · Sat 15/04/2006 17:49:32

After going through horrors of searching for anything to make 3D games onto, and tasted all kinds of awful software, I can assure you that there's no better thing like Blitz Basic / Blitz3D. Actually, it's the most usable 3D engine at all...

If you're going for RPG, something realistic-like, and choose Blitz3D, see following link and try demo. I think that it'll help you big time.

http://www.dyvision.co.uk/ale.htm

scotch · Sat 15/04/2006 19:22:51

I'd generally advice against using 3d unless you have some prior knowledge of it, or have a game idea that just cannot be expressed in 2d, but anyway...

I'd say cel shading is considerably easier than not cel shading once you've worked out how to turn it on in your engine... the time to do that is tiny compared to the time to make a proper texture. Making a 3d game is an impossible dream though, unless you are willing to spend at least a year learning how to model, texture and program, if you're starting from scratch. It's not too much harder than 2d game dev, just requires skills most people haven't got. Most people can do a basic 2d drawing.

Personally I'd recommend learning Python to code a game these days, it's the easiest good language to learn, and has access to the best 2d, 3d and sound libraries. Everything else, like Blitz or C++ sucks in comparison, for productivity and modern features. It's what I'm using for my game currently (Python for programming, OGRE for graphics, Novodex for physics). I'd be happy to help anyone out with this setup.

MrColossal · Sat 15/04/2006 19:26:11

Quote from: scotch on Sat 15/04/2006 19:22:51
I'd be happy to help anyone out with this setup.

Because then you can continue putting off actual work on your game but still say you're working on it!

Helm · Sat 15/04/2006 20:52:26

scotch, Caverider!

LimpingFish · Sat 15/04/2006 21:11:28

Finding a decent 3D engine, as I'm sure you know, is only one of a number of factors to consider when developing in 3D.

Even a 3D engine that requires NO programming, such as those like 3D Gamemaker and FPS Creator, won't build and texture models beyond those that are supplied.

Unless its a puzzle game with abstract graphics, and even then, a 3D game is an awful lot of work for one person.

Edit: I just realized Scotch already made those points. Sorry

Rolf · Sun 16/04/2006 00:02:51

the games 3D are excrement. I hate them. More of the one than I hate my sisters gerble.

Squinky · Sun 16/04/2006 04:08:22

The cheese is old and moldy.

Hammerite · Sun 16/04/2006 07:40:58

why are there so many on this forum who hate 3d?
i like both, oblivion rocks.

Huw Dawson · Sun 16/04/2006 19:45:37

If you want to make an RPG without going into a large amount of coding and graphic design and stuff, you could always use Neverwinter Nights engine, especially if you have both expansions etc. Very simple to use. Of course, it'd be kinda limited to those who didn't have the game... ah well.

- Huw
PS: If this post reads like somebody half asleep wrote it, then that's probably because I have had FAR too much chocolate...

Gregjazz · Sun 16/04/2006 19:52:36

Quote from: Rolf on Sun 16/04/2006 00:02:51
the games 3D are excrement.

Your language is so... formal.

HeirOfNorton · Mon 17/04/2006 01:49:43

Just to throw them out there, another couple of #D engines that take the bare minimum of actual CODING are Delta 3D and Reality Factory. I've never personally used them, so I'm not sure how easy thet are to use.

Unfortunately, with these (and, indeed, nearly any other 3D game engine) you'll find they they are overwhelmingly biased toward making First Person Shooters. They are certainly capable of more, but it takes significantly more work. Kinda like making an action game with AGS.

However, in the long run, whichever engine you went with, the majority of the work would go into modelling / level design / etc.

I'm not trying to discourage you, just let you know what you're in for if you go this route. Switching to 3D doesn't double the work, it SQUARES it. I'd recommend modding some existing game first, to get an idea what's involoved. Neverwinter Nights has been mentioned already, or even any of the Quake or Unreal games.

HoN

Chicky · Mon 17/04/2006 16:18:22

I've been playing around with RF for a few hours now and it seems it would be pretty good for a rpg Kinoko, it seems one of the members (Tabulanis) has got to grips with the level design in just two weeks

That's an in-game screencap from his map, pretty impressive i say!