graphics tablet and paint.net

[ThreeOhFour]

Ah, it seems like the Intuos 3 has buttons on the side, in a useful location, unlike my graphire which has them up the top and only 2 of them.

I use my tablet a lot in tandem with mouse and keyboard, so I have no real issues with panning and zooming

[Chicky]

Heh, don't buy a Wacom Cintiq unless you buy a BIG one, the smallest one is annoyingly small.

I can vouch for the bamboo, good tablet.

[Anian]

Heh, don't buy a Wacom Cintiq unless you buy a BIG one, the smallest one is annoyingly small.

I can vouch for the bamboo, good tablet.

...which is also small. 

[Chicky]

Cintiq = £1249

Bamboo = £40

The Cintiq has a built in monitor, which is too small (for the price) and requires too many cables. Trust me, i have both 

[Anian]

Cintiq = £1249

Bamboo = £40

The Cintiq has a built in monitor, which is too small (for the price) and requires too many cables. Trust me, i have both  

Oh, I trust you. But it sounded like you said, that you can buy either Bamboo or small Cintiq, there are plenty of choices in between.

Bamboo is rather small, maybe too small for comfort although it gets the job done. Cintiq is waaay into pro territory for a lot of people (skill and money wise)...in any case, bygones.  

Anyway, it has to be looked at as an investment, something that'll probably be used for 2 years and more, kinda takes the sting out of the price...actually 40 pounds is not that expensive, cause it costs about 60 here.

[Ryan Timothy B]

I bought an Intuos 3 (6x11) several years ago, and totally love it.  Although I don't use it as much as I should, but it's definitely been worth the price tag I spent.  Which I believe was around $600.  I never ummed or ahhed either.  I knew I was going to use it, so I bought it.

The reason I like the large size is that it's actual screen resolution on the tablet (widescreen too).  I have no idea how the small ones work, does it work exactly like a mouse, or better example, the touchpads on laptops?  Either way, it seemed like a hassle that I wasn't willing to do.  I wanted my large drawing surface.

[Misj']

Heh, don't buy a Wacom Cintiq unless you buy a BIG one, the smallest one is annoyingly small.

The Cintiq has a built in monitor, which is too small (for the price) and requires too many cables. Trust me, i have both 

I politely disagree...The 12-inch Cintiq has exactly the right size for me, and the cables aren't an issue (they would be if I would use it with a laptop I suppose, or if my workplace would be dynamic; which it isn't (although I do change the position of the Cintiq itself regularly and easily)). The 21-inch Cintiq I've never tried, but really wouldn't fit my workflow (it would be way to big...)

My other tablet is an old Graphire A5 (A4 again would be way to big). I use both, but prefer the Cintiq for many tasks (not all though), and think it was worth every euro-cent.

So while a tablet can be too small (A5 is the minimal size for me) bigger is definitely not always better.

The right choice depends completely on the way you work, and the only real advice to give has already been given by Ben: try (at a friend) before you decide.

[Ghost]

I think my Bamboo IS the smallest tablet there is, but I really don't feel (too) limited by the roughly A5 area. I usually do the rough sketches at 100 - 75% scaling, and for the final lines and details I go all the way to 400%+. I bet a larger area is useful though, but even on real paper I hardly ever do "really big strokes". I think that really is a personal thing.
I am thrilled by a tablet with a monitor, though, sounds like the perfect way to skip the "learn how to draw on your knees while watching a screen in front of you" issue. IS is that good, Chicky? I feel in some uhhhm ahhh mood right now 

[Misj']

I am thrilled by a tablet with a monitor, though, sounds like the perfect way to skip the "learn how to draw on your knees while watching a screen in front of you" issue. IS is that good

It's still no pencil and paper. But digitally it's the next best thing...but with undos.

The impact a Cintiq can have on the way you work compared to a regular tablet is comparable to the impact a tablet can have compared to a mouse (and yes, some people can do great things with a mouse)...of course if you aren't any good at drawing (on paper or digitally) it won't magically transform you into the greatest artist who ever lived.

For me it is that good...for others it may be nothing more that a gimmick.


Ps. I wouldn't advice a Cintiq to anyone I don't know personally, though. It has to fit your workflow and it isn't right for everyone. And if it doesn't fit you it's way to expensive of course.

[Anian]

...of course if you aren't any good at drawing (on paper or digitally) it won't magically transform you into the greatest artist who ever lived.

...my dreams...my hopes....all ruined....shattered into pieces and thrown into the abyss....OH, THE HUMANITY!

But seriously, I prepare to buy it right after some trouble at college resolves. The thing I want it for is to correct anatomy on the fly and to clean up more easily, cause I'm rather messy with the pencil.

[Snake]

Thanks for all the great info, guys.
I didn't realize that some pens DIDN'T come with pressure sensitivity. I'm glad you mentioned that, Ben. I just assumed that sensitivity was a staple with these gadgets. Tilt sensitivity would be a good idea too, I would think.

Not sure if I'll get one any time soon, but again, thanks for the info.

...my dreams...my hopes....all ruined....shattered into pieces and thrown into the abyss....OH, THE HUMANITY!

Heh

[Chicky]

Heh, don't buy a Wacom Cintiq unless you buy a BIG one, the smallest one is annoyingly small.

The Cintiq has a built in monitor, which is too small (for the price) and requires too many cables. Trust me, i have both 

I politely disagree...The 12-inch Cintiq has exactly the right size for me, and the cables aren't an issue (they would be if I would use it with a laptop I suppose, or if my workplace would be dynamic; which it isn't (although I do change the position of the Cintiq itself regularly and easily)). The 21-inch Cintiq I've never tried, but really wouldn't fit my workflow (it would be way to big...)

My other tablet is an old Graphire A5 (A4 again would be way to big). I use both, but prefer the Cintiq for many tasks (not all though), and think it was worth every euro-cent.

So while a tablet can be too small (A5 is the minimal size for me) bigger is definitely not always better.

The right choice depends completely on the way you work, and the only real advice to give has already been given by Ben: try (at a friend) before you decide.

Fair play, it's a great tablet but i feel the need to bad mouth it because i really don't think the price is justified. I bought a computer table so that i could use my Cintiq easily with my laptop sitting above but i still feel a little cramped. Have you had any problems with calibrating the Cintiq screen? I find that the basic brightness+contrast controls cant match the image to my laptop perfectly, it needs control over the colour saturation etc but there's no option.

Please tell me if i am being a fool and missing something.

[Misj']

Fair play, it's a great tablet but i feel the need to bad mouth it because i really don't think the price is justified.

I waited several years before buying one, and am quite happy with that decision and use the device regularly. As such I consider it worth the money (I did search for a 'cheap' store on the internet though, which saved me between two- and four-hundred euros, so that made it much more appealing). I however also admit that it does have it's flaws (they are just not big enough that I wouldn't want my next tablet to be similar).

Have you had any problems with calibrating the Cintiq screen? I find that the basic brightness+contrast controls cant match the image to my laptop perfectly, it needs control over the colour saturation etc but there's no option.

This I agree with. While I do a lot of stuff in black and white, when using colour I regularly swap the image between my two screens, because my standard monitor is better colour-calibrated (albeit also not perfectly). This is something I believe Wacom should invest in...I don't think the colour calibration is bad, just not as good as it should be.

[Questionable]

The reason I went with the Intuos 3 series is because all the pens are compatible with the Cintiq series, which I plan on buying at some point. The Intuos 4 line pens do not work with the Cintiqs, and reportedly the Cintiq and Intuos lines will not be cross compatible for the immediate future.

I used small tablet surfaces but in order to get the level of detail in some of my work I would need to zoom in on a specific area, something I don't like to do. I like to work with my piece entirely visible so I can see how any changes effect the overall image. I'm a pen/pencil artist by trade and I'm just now getting into painting but as soon as I had my first lesson in school, I was able to replicate most of the experience on the Wacom, something I couldn't do with a mouse.

I've tried VisTab, Genius Tablet and some other brand, but the always seem to have lag/not be sensitive enough/be cumbersome. For that reason I decided to mainly look at Wacom. Then, the discounts I received through my school my the difference between a Graphire and an Intuos negligible, why would I not pay $10 for more pressure sensitivity, more accessory support, more size options and a larger established user base? So I was left to decide between Bamboo, Cintiq and Intuos. I would have loved to get a Cintiq but there was no discount and dropping $1,000 on something that I had never touched before didn't seem smart. Between the Bamboo and the Intuos, the Intuos maintains all of it's advantages over the Graphire (although even more-so against the Bamboo series,) however there was a price disparity; even with a discount the Bamboo was much cheaper. Ultimately though, I decided that it was an investment in my future. I bought a dog to force myself to become more responsible, I've lived on my own since I was 17 to force myself to learn how to live independently; I knew that if I made the larger investment I would be more likely to utilize it. If I bought so cheap-o $50 peripheral device it would sit in a drawer next to my desk. If I spent $200, that shit was going to get used... even if I never used it as a drawing tablet it would be in my kitchen as the most expensive chopping block I'll ever own. Luckily, I do use it as a drawing tablet.

Then I needed to decide between the Intuos 2, 3 or 4. The 2 was more expensive than a Graphire, with few additional features; I ruled that one out. The 3 series was the one with the most widely available information and was compatible with the Cintiq. The 4 series had better speed, more pressure points and more accurate pressure reads, it looked sexy as hell, it's programmable buttons had programmable LCD displays and it had a wheel... a wheel... a god-damned wheel.  It was also triple the price of the 3 series. If I'm spending $600 I mind as well save the extra cash and get a second hand Cintiq for $700-800.  So I went with the 3 Series and chose the size that I felt most natural drawing on (which happened to be the second most expensive, in the 3 series...)

I went from scanning pen work, retracing, and coloring with a mouse to: drawing in Photoshop.  A much more simple, more natural and fluid process. Has it radically changed my art? No, it has influenced my art but it's had less of an influence than practice and lessons, however, it RADICALLY changed my work flow. What used to take me an hour now takes minutes, what used to take HOURS now take an hour and the ability to adapt and change and enhance, the sense of freedom is more than worth the price of admission into the "Tablet Club."

I don't think anybody here can disagree that a tablet will help you become a better digital artist, but it a minute change than would be akin to getting a hotter stove for cooking. Sure, your cooking might be slightly better and you'll have more freedom to play with simmers and steams, and high heats and low heats, but ultimately it's the ingredients you choose, the spices you leverage, the care that you cook with, the palette that you taste with and the attention that you prepare with that have a much greater influence on the outcome of the meal.

I think that if you are comfortable with your abilities as an artist a tablet is a smart move for you. If you're serious about improving your art or making art a large part of your life, a tablet might be a smart move for you. But if art is a past-time, if it's ancillary to the rest of your life as opposed to a central component, if it's not something you're going to take seriously or to try and improve, then you should save your money, think about what really DOES matter to you and invest in that instead! And it's okay to feel that way, art isn't for everyone. It's a shitty future, from all accounts, but I know that it's in me and I can't get it out. If that's the case with you, then consider a tablet. If not then it might be time to really think about why you want one, because if it's just to produce better art for your game, you could probably pay someone that DOES feel that way about art $50 and have better stuff than you might be able to produce in years!

[Ghost]

I don't think anybody here can disagree that a tablet will help you become a better digital artist, but it a minute change than would be akin to getting a hotter stove for cooking. Sure, your cooking might be slightly better and you'll have more freedom to play with simmers and steams, and high heats and low heats, but ultimately it's the ingredients you choose, the spices you leverage, the care that you cook with, the palette that you taste with and the attention that you prepare with that have a much greater influence on the outcome of the meal.

A beautiful way to see it. I heartily agree!... and I'm hungry now.

[ThreeOhFour]

I don't think anybody here can disagree that a tablet will help you become a better digital artist, but it a minute change than would be akin to getting a hotter stove for cooking.

Not trying to disagree, but I have to say that before I started using my tablet properly I had to sit down and learn a totally new way of drawing. Using the tablet for pixels is something I've never really gotten used to, and using the mouse for brushes is something that I don't have much luck with either.

On the subject of being able to draw on paper, I am terrible at drawing with a pen and paper, much more comfortable with my tablet.

[Anian]

Ok, let's talk about bad part of models from Wacom - this is Bamboo series now, all A6 models:
                    active area    pressure lvls  prices (where I mean to buy)
Pen&Touch    4.9 x 3.4        1024              Â£ 70,0
Pen                5.8 x 3.6        512                Â£ 47,0
As far as I got, the P&T is a newer series and that's why it has more pressure levels, but why is the active area smaller!?

Btw this is not the official distributer for my country, the official has prices about £ 85 for P&T model and technically only sales wholesale (though my friend bought it by going to the shop directly so it is doable).

[Questionable]

http://psd.tutsplus.com/articles/tools/how-to-choose-a-graphics-tablet-that-fits-your-needs/

Nice little discourse on how someone else came to their conclusion and some nice info+resources.

[Arboris]

I bought one of those black Wacom bamboo, mainly to experiment with. It's quite nice, and the fact the pen doesn't need batteries is great. I don't use it that often tho and I've used it only in GIMP so far. I tend to stick with MSpaint and the line tool for some reason

[Layabout]

I'd like to add that I've used bamboos, cintiqs, intuos3's and intuos4's, and out of all of them, I prefer the intuos4. I find getting the correct angle on the cintiq takes a little getting used to. Intuos4 is perfect for what I do, digital painting and sculpting. Pixels, can't do it. Lineart, I prefer pen and paper. If I had the money for a Cintiq, I would get the 12-inch model. It's reasonably portable, you don't need a desk the size of brazil to use it on, the adjustment to the screen to cursor alignement is something I'm sure one would get used to.

I'd recommend for a starter to buy a small bamboo, but don't expect it to last that long under heavy use. The pens are cheap and break easily, and my bamboo's circuit board went all wacky after about 2 years of abuse. If you are serious about digital art, the intuos3's are a good reasonably priced tablet. Just not so good for widescreen monitors. A5's are probably a reasonable size for anything. I personally don't like using any bigger.