Deep thoughts

Haddas · Sat 21/02/2004 10:13:52

What's your deepest philosophical (I have no idea how it's spelled) though?

I mean, do you sometimes start thinking about something and then realize it might not BE so?

One of my biggest thoughts (up to now), is:
I once read that the universe will never end. Since all the suns will die and turn into black holes that suck everything into themselves, they will suck black holes into black holes. Soon everything is just one big pile of mass in a looong time. Then it will explode into a thing we call big bang (, at least that's what they said in the magazine).
Now I wonder... If that is true and will happen, Then HOW many times has it allready happened? What if creatures looking like humans existed 74 000 000 000 big bangs ago? How many big bangs have gone by? I'm frustrated to not have an answer!

IF this is true.

Give me some points of view on the subject

Tell me your thoughts, and don't tell me you haven't thought about anything...

Babar · Sat 21/02/2004 10:56:42

Read Stephen Hawking, man. Either it will lead you to a new way of thinking about the way the universe, time etc, work, or it will give you a huge headache.
Interesting choice of a topic.... I guess my "deepest" philosophical idea is of the balance of all things, how everything complements everything else in such a complex way, creating all we see around us. It's like we are completely insignificant in the ultimate working of the universe. Gazillions of years after the end of the human race, the universe would still be continuing without the slightest hitch.
I had a philosophical type question too. What is the name of theory that disproves that all we see is an illusion (as in Haddas is an illusion, this pc I am typing on is an illusion, what I am seeing is an illusion, and all that exists is me, who is getting a constant input of information). I read somewhere that it was one of the possibilities of existence, until someone disproved it in a perverse twist of logic
Ok, I'll get back to my pot now.....

Las Naranjas · Sat 21/02/2004 11:04:39

Since a big bang requires the entire universe to be a singularity, and since singularities are not subject to normal laws, nothing that happened before one can have any effect at all, in anyway that would make the fact that there was something before it evident to those who are able to observe after it. Since time is what we call that which seperates cause and effect, and since the earliest cause we can measure because of the above problem is the big bang itself, as far as anything is concerned, time began with the big bang.

Moreover, that means that if the universe contracts into a big crunch singularity[and thus another big bang, and this isn't the most popular theory] all possible trace of the existence of this universe will be lost, and time will begin again.

And as far as anything in the universe is concerned, it will never have existed.

Hawking is fun to read isn't he.

oh, and Babloyi, Solipsism holds that since the self is the only thing that can be verified as exisiting, many use the term to describe a situation where, since it is the only thing that can be verified, it is the only thing, hence all else is illusion.

And to quote Dr Johnson....
"I refute it thus!"

* Las Naranjas stubs toes on rock

and all philosophy is sophistry :p

Haddas · Sat 21/02/2004 13:16:52

Is stephen hawking that guy in a wheelchair?

Nacho · Sat 21/02/2004 13:31:51

Of course existed a previous Universe... It had some strange things that looks weird to us now. For example, the soud was transmited in the empty space, explosions and lasers could be heard. It was possible to stay in the middle of an opened to the space ship without dangerous, and the Force controlled all the living things in the gallaxy.

It was a long time ago, in a galaxy far away...

[music]strarwarsinto[/music]

Haddas · Sat 21/02/2004 15:38:36

You're RIGHT! How could we have so blind?!? lol

veryweirdguy · Sat 21/02/2004 16:45:19

I think it's sad that one of the greatest minds of our time is famous for 'being in a wheelchair'...

AGA · Sat 21/02/2004 16:59:36

...I'm not famous for being in a wheelchair...

Haddas · Sat 21/02/2004 17:41:51

But you're not one of the greates minds either!

... I am! Check my personal signature!

Chicky · Sat 21/02/2004 18:25:46

i have the greatest theory ever, but the thing is its way to long to write down. And the only person ive ever explained it to was my best mate.

sorry guys , you'll never know .... until it happens

until then

bye

-nath

Kairus · Sat 21/02/2004 19:14:13

That theory about big bang and big crunch doesn't mean there was necessarily anything before the big bang of our universe and there will not be necessarily anything after its big crunch. But it's possible that it would've been happening once and again and again for God knows how "long". It's also possible that all things are happening at the same time. That is, all possible universes exist, the one where you are the ruler of the world and the one where the purple tentacle enslaves humans, too. But the life you are living is somehow one of the infinite possible paths that can be gone through in this universe. Why don't we choose to be in the universe where we are rulers of the world? Well... I can't tell that, but maybe it's because we don't want to...

Now this I'm going to tell you is a theory I came up with some years ago that I hope is not true. Maybe I have already told it here, but it's not probable as it's something I don't generally tell people, but well... here we go. It's related to the fact we feel time passing really quickly when we are having fun and we feel it very sloooow when we are in pain, I guess you've noticed it. Well, some medical theories say it's because of the concentration of adrenaline or I-don't-know what substance in our blood that causes that sensation, I don't know much about this maybe you do. On the other hand, I think the pain and pleasure feelings must be an essential part of any life form as they're the primary way of telling "warning, don't go this way" or "yeah, that's working fine". We know that it doesn't always work because some types of pleasure lead to death and some types of pain lead to healing, but our human lives are enormously more complex than, for example, cells, and it's quite logical that they have more complex pain/pleasure systems.

Ok, back to what I was saying... If pain and pleasure is one of the main characteristics of life, and if the speed we feel the time passes is directly proportional to the amount of pleasure and inversely proportional to the amount of pain, then dying (which should be the most "painful" situation, as it's what the pain tries to make us avoid) must be the situation in which we feel the time pass more slowly. That is, in the moments previous to death, you should feel the time passing extremely slow... and then... what the hell happens to your consciousness? Well, extrapolating this result, when pain tends to infinite, the time speed should tend to 0, that is, when you die your consciousness gets stuck in a moment (yeah, like U2

), a moment of eternal pain.

Yes, it's an awful theory, so please someone refute it quickly before I start feeling depressed about it...

Lazy Z · Sat 21/02/2004 19:19:39

Y' know, the fact that he's in a wheelchair has probably played a part in his being such a brilliant thinker, I mean, there's not a whole lot other things he can do besides think.

Hmm, maybe that sounds a bit too cynical. Anyways, to answer your first question Haddas, the universe will probably end, because of entropy - everything goes into disorder. That's not to say that the universe might go into another Big Bang, it might expand too much and then collapse unto itself, that's another theory that's kinda popular.

I have several wacky thoughts (I'm a philosophy minor, so you could say I'm supposed to have 'em

), but right now I'm kinda bored, so I'll share later.

(Edit)
I just saw your post Kairus, and thought I'd answer, and perhaps save you from depression

. Death doesn't have to be the ultimate form of pain, maybe it is a release, maybe a transitional phase to a completely different state of being than the one we're currently experiencing. And this kind of reminds me of Jacob's Ladder and the quote they used in the end, I think it was from Voltaire. That in the moment of your death, if you don't accept your fate, you are plagued by demons (figuratively speaking. Probably) and are in lot of pain, not unlike what you said. But if you do accept your fate, then the demons turn into angels and release you from your burden. So it's just about not fearing death.

Is this making any sense? No? Thought as much.

MrColossal · Sat 21/02/2004 19:26:00

Felipe · Sat 21/02/2004 19:35:03

One of my deepest thoughts is:

What is 'real'? How do you define 'real'?
If real is what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is simply, electrical signals interpreted by our brain.

Have you ever had a dream, Haddas, that you were so sure was real?
What if you were unable to wake from that dream?
How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?

I know why you're here, Haddas. I know what you've been doing... why you hardly sleep, why you live alone, and why night after night, you sit by your computer. You're looking for him. I know because I was once looking for the same thing. And when he found me, he told me I wasn't really looking for him. I was looking for an answer. It's the question that drives us. It's the question that brought you here. You know the question, just as I did.

After all these things said, you know what I realize?
Ignorance is bliss... (And I should stop watching The Matrix) 8)

Haddas · Sat 21/02/2004 19:36:49

Quotehttp://www.agagames.com/ghormak/franz/strips/fan011.gif

lol

Kairus:

I just started thinking(wow), that IF the mind would stop when we die, will we see the last thought for all eternity? I'm gonna think about boobs... another thing about when time slows down is that it would explain why people have time to see thier life flashing before their eyes before they die.

Meowster · Sat 21/02/2004 19:37:26

If your conscienceness was suspended in nothingness, how confused would your sense of time become with nothing to judge elapsed time on?

EDIT: Haddas, I'd think about love and happiness.

Haddas · Sat 21/02/2004 19:40:26

QuoteI'd think about love and happiness.

That sounds like valium to me...

Shattered Sponge · Sat 21/02/2004 19:56:13

42

...

Look, if I hadn't done it, someone else would have.

LordHart · Sat 21/02/2004 21:12:31

Well, you were right about that, I was just about to...

Anyway, http://www.cco.net/~jpete/deepthou.htm... some great Deep Thoughts

Kairus · Sat 21/02/2004 22:22:46

Lazy Z: I'm not a deppressive maniac, what I stated is in direct opposition to mi beliefs, but it's a biological/metaphysical argument I haven't found a way to refute yet, and that's not good. The only arguments that contradict this theory are the ones about people who returned from quasi-death, and I don't know if they don't have some other kind of explanation...

What is 42?