Designing a Jump'n Run: Consider my survey

[Calin Leafshade]

That looks rad!

Are you using my platform engine as the basis? Or did you scrap it?

[Matt Frith]

Looking good Abstauber, I wish you luck completing it.  Also quite excited about the future module, it might tempt me into making a  game myself!

[DoorKnobHandle]

that's looking good. love the ground tiles

And the best thing is, YOU can draw the TOO. Check out Helm's tutorial: http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/upload/pixelvids/mockup.avi

Did fill out the survey, hope it helps!

[Mehrdad]

@MEHRDAD
I'm afraid you wouldn't be too happy with it at the current stage as it's a scrolling and tile based. And currently even the animations are like in Super Mario - but the survey already tells me to rethink that

I know this is a advanced programming.and i sure this is a greatest module or template or sample or...that make with AGS untill now.you work is really great.please you do step by step work until receieve to Another World or Flashback style.I sure you can.

Iji looks really interesting, just like a fast paced Flashback. I can't watch the trailer on youtube anymore or I loose the motivation to write something on my own

do you mean:  http://www.remar.se/daniel/iji.php
Its make with Game maker.

[Arboris]

And the best thing is, YOU can draw the TOO. Check out Helm's tutorial: http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/upload/pixelvids/mockup.avi

thanks for that one , hadn't seen it before

*edit*

out of curiosity, what's that tile program he's using ?

[abstauber]

@Calin
Sort of The movement is from your engine and some parts of the collision detection too (that counter that slows you down while landing). The tile management is from dkh, as well as the enemy handling. Last but not least, importing GBA-Maps is from Khris...
IT'S FRANKENSTEIN'S MONSTER, I tell you
But at least some parts are from me, like ramps, platforms and those mushroom/coin spitting bonus blocks.

@dkh
Is it that obvious?? But yes, I kind of followed that tutorial almost blindly - I needed some quick and nice artwork to explain to my girlfriend why I'm spending so much time in front of the machine. Oh and before you spoil that too: the colors are from Arne's palette over at Way of the pixel.

@MEHRDAD
Hehe thanks. Well I still have to decide in what direction I'll go. After a few more submitted surveys, we'll see. But at the moment it seems that I can't avoid wall grabbing

@Arboris
It's Pro Motion. It can also export those tilemaps in a format AGS can handle, so it's also my Map editor.

@Tier
I'm trying to keep it customizable, I promise. Most of it's concepts work parallel to AGS,like having hotspot tiles, object tiles and so on. The only drawback is that you'll need an external map editor and preferably ProMotion.

@Mark
Thanks! It's just very "Mario" at the moment

[blueskirt]

Point'n'click section? Yes please.

Only if the game feature a mouse aiming system. If the game is played entirely with the keyboard, having to switch from keyboard to mouse to interact with a couple of things will be the ultimate flow breaker. If there's no mouse aiming, the whole Point'n'click or adventure element will be better handled with the keyboard only, like Flashback did.

On the subject of Flashback and slow paced platformers, I think Flashback would have been better if it put emphasis on stealth and treachery instead of combat, where you got to hide from enemies and cameras, avoid dangerous situations and pick out enemies stealthfully, or intelligently (by triggering traps, pirating robots or luring them to fight each others). Flashback was a bit like that at the start of the game, and it's only when the game asked you to kill several unkillable enemies that fly and crawl on ceilings that the game began to suck.

[Ryan Timothy B]

and btw. yes, that's an actual in-game shot

All the enemies are floating!! 

I've filled out the survey the other day, and I totally think there should be super speed, strength, big guns, with wall jumping!
That would be the shit I tell ya!

[Questionable]

I imagined crazy awesome jumping, but the platforms are spaced out so that you can barely make it and you have to aim well in order to grab a ledge, or you have to wall jump off several platforms.

Contra-Stupid Gun/Aim System+Sonic+Metroid+N+Super Mario RPG

[Mehrdad]

@MEHRDAD
Hehe thanks. Well I still have to decide in what direction I'll go. After a few more submitted surveys, we'll see. But at the moment it seems that I can't avoid wall grabbing

Not problem.please work on the platform engine.and for next versions add grab ledge,climb and run or swiming even!.I think after release this version,CJ does change AGS name to APGS(Adventure Platform Game Studio)

btw.I'm ready for make animation 2d Player Sprites for all actions(walk,turn,run, jump,grab ledge,climb,... )

[abstauber]

What I've learned so far is, that platformers can be devided into 3 major subgenres:

Jump'n Run (Mario and Sonic)
Shoot'n Run (Gunstar Heroes, Abuse and Contra)
Stealth'n Tactics (Flashback, Yahtzee's platformers)


It's also clear that I can't bake them all together and the result is the perfect game.  So it's been really insightful (so far) that you've told me about your favourite game elements.

E.g. this would be pretty uncool:
* Metal Slug + Key and Items huntery + non-linear level design
* This Abuse guy fighting his way through Goombas
* Another World with Moonjumps
* really free movement in 1213... no wait, that would be awesome


Right now there're still some questions at a 50/50 state, so some more participants would be very welcome

btw.I'm ready for make animation 2d Player Sprites for all actions(walk,turn,run, jump,grab ledge,climb,... )

Thanks for this offer. The problem is, I need to learn that too Also I'm still not convinced to create a slow pace platformer at this stage of the engine.


@Questionable
Don't you think, that game would be way too easy? Why avoid them if you can shoot them

@Ryan
Hehe, they aren't. They are just drawn in the middle of the frame and I forgot cropping. So technically they have their transparant feet on the ground.

@Blueskirt
Good point. That might be the reason I've only completed Another World, but never won at Flashback.

[Babar]

Combine the first two types, with some tactics! SLIGHTLY more realistic acrobatic jumping, whip-slinging (), running, shooting and occasional melee swordery/bludgeonery.

IF you are going to have guns or projectiles, do it abuse style, and not contra style. It always annoyed me that you could only shoot 8 directions, and something could easily get inbetween your shots, and shooting down below you was always troublesome.

Stealth gameplay DEFINITELY has its great moments

* (Babar recalls pressing the UP thing to fade into the background in Blackthorne, waiting for a baddie to pass him, then coming out of the shadows and BRINGING IT DOWN ),

but I´m not sure, can it be incorporated into a game with all the other bits in it? Maybe just a level, but then again, I always found those "normal" games, with just 1 stealth level to be a bit tacked-on.

[Arboris]

Bit impartial about that to be honest. Abuse is a good game, but so is duke nukem and biohazard.

[Radiant]

Done.

I've got some plans and prototype for a Metroid game in AGS, but I don't think I'll get around to that any time soon. Still, I'd love to see some good platformers being developed for it.

[Questionable]

@Questionable
Don't you think, that game would be way too easy? Why avoid them if you can shoot them

For some reason what I have in my head as the perfect platformer has the crazy jumping fun of N (http://www.addictinggames.com/ngame.html)
The super fast game play of sonic (in the good ones you had to think FAST and move FAST in order to get top scores)
& RPG elements and non-linear game play

The reason that I mention Contra (or Metal Slug or Gunstar Heroes) is because they were pretty hard (when I was a kid at least) and they were straight up badass. There's nothing cooler than blowing shit up in order to reveal an alternate pathways, or firing machine guns NON STOP...  But I also thought they weren't as fun as regular platformers mostly because of the stupid gun system. I would rather play an FPS if I want to blast shit to hell... But the fact that they involved guns and kicking ass instead of a plumber eating 'shrooms or a bandicoot eating peaches or a hedgehog eating rings...

BTW, I didn't mean that you would avoid enemies, necessarily. I imagine a really difficult acrobatic style platformer DRIPPING with baddies that if you ignore will ultimate deplete your life. You might be able to ignore them for awhile but they'll get you... or weaken you enough that a boss will STOMP you.  So you would need to take care of them someway... but also the game is fast paced, acrobatic, non-linear, with puzzles, RPG elements and a few storytelling cut-scenes...

Then again, what I imagine isn't always what other people seem to be interested in... but that just sounds supremely badass to me.

[abstauber]

@Babar: Whip slinging like in Castevania or like Indy? (no idea how cool whip swinging can be achived). Some stealth elements are definetly to be considered. I can't say that I've finished Blackthorne, but it was pretty cool those days.

Giving the player a choice whether to stealth or to rush through the stage without goodies and extras might be an idea too.. Oohh.. all these possibilities

@Radiant: Thanks for the input. Is that prototype already playable?

@Questionable:

I would rather play an FPS if I want to blast shit to hell..

That's a good point you're having there.  Meanwhile I've taken a closer look at Cave Story. Except for the controls and the tiny graphics, it's terrific. At least it was until I had to shoot all those annoying and repetitive enimies all the time.


What I've understood so far, at least for projectile weapons:
If it's about blasting enemies: Abuse style - mouse aiming.
If it's more about acrobatics: 3 way aiming is fair enough.

Right?

[Wonkyth]

I disagree.
With mouse aiming, you could have quite a nice mix of shooting and 2D Parkour!

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Mouse aim also can significantly reduce challenge and difficulty, so it's something to keep in mind.  If you can shoot in 'any' direction, especially with some kind of crosshair, your accuracy will reduce the difficulty of the game naturally, so to offset that you'd want enemies (at least some) able to fire in all directions with precision also.

[abstauber]

Mouse aim also can significantly reduce challenge and difficulty

Totally true.

Btw. I tried on Abuse yesterday - just to update my memories. And.. um.. maybe you all memorize it better than it was   The aiming system is great, but most of the time I'm running away and shooting dumb enemies falling from the ceiling.


But I'm already conviced that mouse aiming itself is how platformers should work on a PC. I'm sure, Metal Slug would have done it too, if a mouse would be a common aracade controller

Let's take Cave Story for another example. Most of the time you try to move yourself into a proper direction, just to shoot the same type of enemy over and over again. The player knows how to kill these, it's not hard, it's just annoying. With free aiming, it would have been a lot more fun, since it's no real challange in either ways.

[Al_Ninio]

Let's take Cave Story for another example. Most of the time you try to move yourself into a proper direction, just to shoot the same type of enemy over and over again. The player knows how to kill these, it's not hard, it's just annoying. With free aiming, it would have been a lot more fun, since it's no real challange in either ways.

Free aiming in a SNES-type shooter? Way to ruin the fun. I'm good with the 6-way shooting mechanisms of games such as Metal Slug. Adding a mouse to a 2D shooter ruins the fun for me. I hated Abuse.