Designing a Jump'n Run: Consider my survey

[abstauber]

Well, it feels indeed very different to control a platformer with the left hand (or vice versa if you're left handed).

But if it's not a survival shooter and no gray in grays like Abuse, I'm with Wonkyth here. It should be fun, if shooting enemies is not the only obstacle in the game.

[Mehrdad]

@abstauber : please dont use mouse for any actions. does write all commands only for keyboard. aiming for shooting,and select Inventory,and everything only with KEYBOARD.mouse its full enough for adventure games.dont remember : you have work on platform games.so forgot mouse for this engine.
and always remember this games :Another World,Flashback,Prince of Persia,Heart of Alien(Another world 2).
Thanks
You have choose GREAT job.I waiting for first version
sorry for bad english

[Wonkyth]

As the only Analogue control available to the computer user for ordinary use, and the most effective pointing device so far, I think that all games should incorporate a great deal of mouse action.

[abstauber]

Alright, I have scripted mouse aiming. Just aiming, no shooting yet

I must say, it feels very different - almost like another genre. Also I've some trouble controlling the main character with the left hand, but apart from that it's kind of cool 

I'll see if I can finish a small demo in the next weeks, where you can check for yourself.

[Mehrdad]

Alright, I have scripted mouse aiming. Just aiming, no shooting yet

please ignore mouse for platform engine.or aiming even.please read above again.

I'll see if I can finish a small demo in the next weeks, where you can check for yourself.

excellent news. Its best gift for me.

[Radiant]

@Radiant: Thanks for the input. Is that prototype already playable?

If I'd put together an actual level, then yes.

[Ryan Timothy B]

Also make sure you add fully customizable keys.
If you're using the left hand to control, for some odd reason the norm is to use WASD, when it would be more logical to use SDFE, which is what I use.  That way your little finger isn't useless by positioning itself on Caps Lock.  Also your other finger is resting on the nub on the F key, already in position for typing.

[DoorKnobHandle]

Also make sure you add fully customizable keys.
If you're using the left hand to control, for some odd reason the norm is to use WASD, when it would be more logical to use SDFE, which is what I use.  That way your little finger isn't useless by positioning itself on Caps Lock.  Also your other finger is resting on the nub on the F key, already in position for typing.

This might be slightly off-topic but the correct (ie. standardized FPS way) of WASD has your little finger hovering over SHIFT and CTRL alternatively (which would be hard to even reach for most hand sizes when on SDFE). The need for your finger to be exactly over F for typing I don't understand (and neither why it would make a difference to have it be on D, one key to the left of F, as the move there is almost instant for any experienced player).

[Calin Leafshade]

The wiki page for "arrow keys" has lots of information on the different key layouts for gaming with pros and cons

[Ryan Timothy B]

The need for your finger to be exactly over F for typing I don't understand (and neither why it would make a difference to have it be on D, one key to the left of F, as the move there is almost instant for any experienced player).

Because with your hand on ESDF your little finger now has access to QAZ and SHIFT.  I usually use A as my crouch button.  It's the easiest to press and/or hold while you can control around.  I also used to type quite often when I played online pc games, which happened to be Half-Life 1 -- until I moved to Consoles for all my gaming, just goes to show you how long ago I actually played games on my computer other than AGS games and such.

I'm not trying to convert people to the logical side of controls, I'm just saying that he should add fully customizable controls.  Abs, can setup the game in the control scheme he thinks is best for himself, and we can either adapt to that, or change it ourselves (if he actually adds fully customizable controls).

[Wyz]

Just a suggestion but with the right abstraction any of the named platformers can be build with the same engine. Well of course that isn't really realistic since every platformer has its own quircks. But is you go for the general idea, that would be possible. When people start designing a platformer they can take a standard engine and augment it with their own quircks 'simply' by scripting them on. Mouse interaction is one of these things. One person might use the mouse to aim, someone else to interact with items on the screen. I see both of them as quircks, and not really part of something I would want to use readily. If I break down the genre quickly I think something like:

Platforms: solid parts that don't change. Things collide with them.

Enities: things that can move around, collide with platforms, may have physics applied, collide with each other, trigger events.
 |-  Pawns: things that move on their own
 |      |-  Player: things that are controlled
 |      |-  NPC: things that are indirectly controlled
 |      '-  Enemies: things that are controlled by AI
 '-  Objects: things that move by design
        |-  Powerups: things that can be collected
        |-  Projectiles: things that move in predefined ways across the screen
        '-  Hazards: things that move in place

Maybe I'm just over complicating things, in that case ignore this post

[Captain Ricco]

One mushed word:
METROIDVANIA

but i do like flashback, Otherworld, Prince of persia as well

[abstauber]

@Ryan & Calin:
I'll definitely add support for WASD. Maybe at a later stage, I might add a user customized keys but I don't see a real benefit for this whole day of work - yes it's not complicated but takes some time to write.

@Wyz:
I'm already keeping it abstract, because I'm not too sure how the final game will look like. It works like that:

Characters:
- player: has abilities wall jump, grabbing, 8 way shot, free mouse aim, sliding and so on
You just need to set a bool flag to turn it on or off.

- people: Can be hostile or friendly. Hostile people have classes like eny_moron (which is pretty much a goomba) or eny_trooper who is at least aware of gaps and patrols waypoints


items:
Like objects in ags, just with another name. Those can move, hide in boxes and modify player stats.

hotspots:
same as in AGS, just as a tile

Environment:
- tiles with attributes like solid, deadly etc.
- movable platforms
- stairs
- waypoints for enemies and platforms

Thats how far I'm at the moment. There's still missing shootery I'm also thinking of another layer with regions, but I hardly ever use them in AGS, so hotspots may do the job as well.

There - now I feel like a showoff

[Stupot]

I'm not really a fan of the faster paced platformers.  I suppose I prefer games like Rick Dangerous, where each screen presents a puzzle to solve.  You have enemies and guns and bombs and lives, giving it that arcadey feel (and points too), but you're not really in any hurry.  Games like this are good because you can stand there and think about how to time your movements carefully so as to not get killed  by the arrows shooting at you from the wall and things like that.

If you chucked in some minor inventory action like Fantasy World Dizzy, you'd have a game I would want to play.

[abstauber]

At the moment I'm thinking of a "real-time" ManBoy with arcade elements. Would that be cool?

[Wyz]

I'm already keeping it abstract, because I'm not too sure how the final game will look like. It works like that:
[...]

Ah, that's actually quite nice, good job!

[Intense Degree]

Looks very nice!

Also if we're talking about good AGS platformers I have to mention Mazoliin's Plumberboy. Great fun once you're used to the controls(!) and some pretty tricky levels too!

[Ryan Timothy B]

I might add a user customized keys but I don't see a real benefit for this whole day of work

Main reason why I suggested it is because I thought you were planning on releasing the source code once it's done.

Also didn't dualnames create a module to change keys?  I know he offered it to me once, I'm just not sure if he actually made a module though.

[abstauber]

I thought you were planning on releasing the source code once it's done.

Yeah, that's planned, but I have no plans on writing a (tutorial / documentation) yet. Also the file format relies on ProMotion has a map editor.

[Pixelton]

With the 8-way shooting would it be possible to have the first 2 loops as shoot left & right for example, if a developer didn't want a shoot diag, or up and down (abit like the walk cycles currently in the game with diagonals walk views). You may already be doing it like this so I'll shut up.

I did notice someone had mentioned Rick Dangerous, that was a classic game along with it's sequal.