Discuss about drugs

[mchammer]

HERE is the article.

So what you think of it? They say that the main reason of the ban are stupid turists who go to Holland thinking: "Jeah! A LEGAL DRUG! I heard it's even more cool than cannabis."

It's sad if that really was the reason of the ban, because most of the turists aren't such amateurs and realize 'the point' of the shrooms and other psychedelics.

Of course the new law won't prevent anyone buying or gathering shrooms and maybe its even good thing that people need now get some info about shrooms before trying them, but still... smart shops are part of
dutch culture and you cant find such culture in any other place.
I feel guite lucky myself because i spent a week in holland just before they decided about the new law.

I hope this topic wont turn into "U USE DRUGS!!! I HOPE U DIE PAINFULLY!!!" conversation. Those posts are pointless and i would claim that i know the dangers of psycedelics much better than people who write such posts. Of course matter-of-fact critic is always welcome.

Ps. Psychedelics are ILLEGAL and this topic is ment to discuss about them, not to attract using them.

[Radiant]

Actually, no, many of the tourists are "such amateurs" and don't realize the consequences of psychedelics. These are people who come to Amsterdam to do things that are illegal or unavailable in their home country - just like e.g. Swedes who come to Denmark because alcohol is more easily available there. Unsurprisingly, such people sometimes cause trouble.

[Becky]

It's sad if that really was the reason of the ban, because most of the turists aren't such amateurs and realize 'the point' of the shrooms and other psychedelics.

What is "the point" of shrooms and other psychadelics?  If people are using them to get their buzzes, whether they are "amateurs" or not (you can be a professional drug user? ) then isn't that "the point" of taking them?

[Disco]

I'm rather indifferent to these types of recreational fungi, but perhaps the new law would put an end to the idiotic questions I get from people who hear of my European travels. The most common question is something like "You've been to Europe? Did you go to Amsterdam? *laugh/giggle/wink*". Here in the US, knowledge of the liberal drug laws in Holland tend to supersede any other pertinent information. The 45 year old dishwasher/stoner at my work knew all the stereotypical things about the country, but thought it was a city somewhere on the east coast of the US

I agree with Radiant since even on my side I can tell those who travel to Amsterdam from the US are many times people who don't know how to behave when going outside to collect their post let alone within another culture.

[jetxl]

I disagree with this law because I disagree with the dutch political charade that came with it.
Bloody politics.

[mchammer]

Actually, no, many of the tourists are "such amateurs" and don't realize the consequences of psychedelics. These are people who come to Amsterdam to do things that are illegal or unavailable in their home country - just like e.g. Swedes who come to Denmark because alcohol is more easily available there. Unsurprisingly, such people sometimes cause trouble.

'Such amateurs' wasnt very good term 

It's sad if that really was the reason of the ban, because most of the turists aren't such amateurs and realize 'the point' of the shrooms and other psychedelics.

What is "the point" of shrooms and other psychadelics?  If people are using them to get their buzzes, whether they are "amateurs" or not (you can be a professional drug user? ) then isn't that "the point" of taking them?

Well.. that's exactly the problem i was talking about. Usualy people who havent tried shrooms might try them to 'get their buzzes', but that's not the idea.
Shrooms doesnt make you feel confused like drugs like alcohol or cannabis. 'The point' is that psychedelics let you see the world in completely different angle and every trip teaches a lot about the world and yourself. Of course its difficult to believe that 'a drug' can teach you something like that, but just for example shamans have used shrooms over 10000 years.

And yes, i think you can be a professional shroom user  because you should know a lot of things about them before trying. Even if there is no scientific proof that shrooms cause any psysichal damage,
they can freak you out if you use them wrongly (or if you have schizophrenia).
Just for example, some basics:

-right dozing (not too strong for first time)
-setting(warm homelike atmosphere,good lighing, relaxing music (there is shamanic music made just for tripping))
-you never should try them alone.
-noise (caused by enviroment or drunken friends) can be really pressing.
-you should try them indoors. (There is different opinions about that tho)
-you should have an empty stomach when eating them.

perhaps the new law would put an end to the idiotic questions I get from people who hear of my European travels. The most common question is something like "You've been to Europe? Did you go to Amsterdam? *laugh/giggle/wink*".

I usually tell people quite openly that i eat shrooms couple times a year.
So I have same kind of problems with some people and it can be really annoying.   :

[Buckethead]

It's actually banned now? I heared people where going to protest to stop this. Well I guess it didn't work then. Personally I don't know if banning these will really work. I mean now people have to get them in illigal ways and then you have no controle about what happens.

[LUniqueDan]

Actually, no, many of the tourists are "such amateurs" and don't realize the consequences of psychedelics.

I am affraid that 'substance tourism' will always cause their share of problems.
Where I live, the legal age for alcool is 'olny' 18, that we deal well, but every Springbreak drunk US fratboys make the news.

[Nacho]

Jumping from the 10th floor of an skycrapper might help you to see the life from a different angle, and it might not be very recommendable. I' ve read here some of the most used topics about drugs, and they still sound like crap to me.

Shamans have used them for 10000 years!

And? Have they seen something interesting? No... basically they were drugged people. No one has seen the cure for cancer after eating a mushroom.

[Radiant]

'The point' is that psychedelics let you see the world in completely different angle and every trip teaches a lot about the world and yourself.

That's a nice romantic notion, but that hardly applies to everybody. Effects are highly subjective and personal; I am reasonably certain that most people do not take drugs to learn about the world, and also that this doesn't actually work that way for many.

Oh btw "professional" tends to mean that you make money from doing it.

Where I live, the legal age for alcool is 'olny' 18, that we deal well, but every Springbreak drunk US fratboys make the news.

Yep. Reminds me of my first weekend on the Chicago campus. Us international students knew what alcohol was, and the American freshmen did not. So they tried it, in vast quantities. The results where either hilarious or really sad, depending on how you look at it.

[space boy]

but just for example shamans have used shrooms over 10000 years.

Please take a minute to read this:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-tradition.html

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

[mchammer]

Jumping from the 10th floor of an skycrapper might help you to see the life from a different angle, and it might not be very recommendable. I' ve read here some of the most used topics about drugs, and they still sound like crap to me.

Even if there is no scientific proof that shrooms cause any psysichal damage,
they can freak you out if you use them wrongly (or if you have schizophrenia).

If millions of people eat substance witch changes your state of mind, everyone can understand that
bad things will happen to someone. But if you pay more attension to statistics, you can see that
deaths caused by mushrooms are very rare (and most of them are caused by eating wrong mushrooms).
And if you compare that to deaths caused by alcohol...

Shamans have used them for 10000 years!

And? Have they seen something interesting? No... basically they were drugged people. No one has seen the cure for cancer after eating a mushroom.

Cure of cancer? No, shrooms dont turn people into scientists. (They might have saved me from cancer tho because i quit drinking and smoking after first trips i experienced.)

But have they seen something interesting?  Short answer would be yes.

That's a nice romantic notion, but that hardly applies to everybody. Effects are highly subjective and personal; I am reasonably certain that most people do not take drugs to learn about the world, and also that this doesn't actually work that way for many.

I know it sounds like 'a romantic notion'  .   And yes, there is people who misuse shroom-alcohol combination as 'a partydrug' but usually that kind of people uses strong drugs like extacy,cocaine,heroin or amphetamine.

People who havent tried it can easily claim that people who eat shrooms are just hallucinating so strongly that they think they have seen something wise. I can say that's not true but of course i have no way to proof it in internet. Only thing i can say is that read about people's experiences.

[Radiant]

People who havent tried it can easily claim that people who eat shrooms are just hallucinating so strongly that they think they have seen something wise. I can say that's not true but of course i have no way to proof it in internet. Only thing i can say is that read about people's experiences.

I'm sure that some people who take shrooms have a marvelous learning experience. It does not follow, however, that all (or even many) people who take shrooms have such an experience.

[mchammer]

People who havent tried it can easily claim that people who eat shrooms are just hallucinating so strongly that they think they have seen something wise. I can say that's not true but of course i have no way to proof it in internet. Only thing i can say is that read about people's experiences.

I'm sure that some people who take shrooms have a marvelous learning experience. It does not follow, however, that all (or even many) people who take shrooms have such an experience.

It's difficult for me to think that people wouldn't get such an experience. Of course wrongly used or if you arent strong minded (I dont mean that there are 'strong minded' and 'weak minded' persons, i just dont have better word for it) the experience can be very scary and bad, but i have never heard that anyone would think it wasnt learning.

[jetxl]

Jumping from the 10th floor of an skycrapper might help you to see the life from a different angle, and it might not be very recommendable. I' ve read here some of the most used topics about drugs, and they still sound like crap to me.

Shamans have used them for 10000 years!

And? Have they seen something interesting? No... basically they were drugged people. No one has seen the cure for cancer after eating a mushroom.

Uhm, the girl who killed herself didn't use magic mushrooms!!! Media got it wrong.
So this arguements for not using drugs is crap too.

The dangers of magic mushrooms were investigated, a report was made. Apparently magic mushrooms are now safer than they were in 2000 and are still no threat to personal health or society. But the minister who called for an investigation still want magic mushrooms banned because of his political platform.
Bloody politics.

[Stupot]

I took magic mushrooms a few years ago.  And you could say I had a marvelous learning experience.
I learned that I'm never touching them again.  I had a horrible time.

a) I was inexperienced. I don't even smoke weed let alone eating psychedelic fungi so it probably wasn't the recommended 'first drug'.
b) I was sitting in a room with about 3 or 4 kids that used to bully me a few years previously... they were ok with me then, but I still have harsh memories of them.
c) I took too many, because I didnt wait long enough for the first load to settle in and gobbled up some more impatiently.  This turned out to be a bad move.

I basically thought I was in serious trouble for about 12 hours solid.. I didn;t think I was going to die, but I thought I was never going to go back to normal again and this is a very scary thought indeed.  Looking back, the stuff I saw wasnt so scary, everything just went wonky and peoples heads looked big (we had been playing Goldeneye on DK mode before we took them) and colours and sounds went all weird and crazy... to actually picture it now in my head It doesnt seem like much to get scared about... but I was just overcome with a blanket of fear and it really wasnt fun.

And not only that but for a while afterwards I kept getting weird sensations, my vision would go funny and I'd have to stop whatever i was doing, shake my head and convince myself I wasnt going mad... thankfully nothing like that happens any more, but theres always the possibility it might... and I could be driving past a school when it happens...

[Nacho]

Sorry if I called for a missunderstanding, but when I typed "jumping from an skycrapper" I was not refering as a jump provoqued by a bad trip after eating mushrooms... My example just meant that there are ZILLION of ways to get new experiences without using drugs. It also means that not all this ways to get nex experiences are good
(So, MC, comparing here the deaths provoqued by alcohol is totally uncalled for, here, since I was not talking of deaths caused by mushrooms)

I go on, MChammer; Do you recognise that mshrooms don' t bring anything "magical" to you? (No cure for cancer, no?) So... why using them? "Well, they bring something interesting!"

My reply: Do you do need drugs to bring interest to your live?

I feel sorry for you, mate.

So, to summarise, what you basically did is criticise alcohol, for then, in the following line, recognise that mshroom is more or less the same shit (According to your words nothing "special" but something which can bring interest to a boring life...) I don' t really get your point.

[jetxl]

Ouch, Farl. Calling someone boring is uncalled for, bro.

Sorry if I called for a missunderstanding, but when I typed "jumping from an skycrapper" I was not refering as a jump provoqued by a bad trip after eating mushrooms...

So you didn't refer to this part in the above linked article? My bad.

The government has cracked down on hard drugs and tightened controls on marijuana. It was expected to do the same with mushrooms after the death of 17-year-old Gaelle Caroff, who had suffered from psychological problems before her death in March. She jumped from a building after eating psychedelic mushrooms while on a school visit.

But let us not forget what this is all about: Bloody politics.

[Nacho]

But... but... that's what he said, that he uses mshrooms because it' s interesting, no? 

[GarageGothic]

This is the first and probably last time I participate in a drug debate on the forums, but Nacho's comment "Do you do need drugs to bring interest to your live? I feel sorry for you, mate." pisses me off. It's like saying: "Do you need video games to make your life interesting? What a loser".

Just because alcohol might be your drug of preference (not saying it is, just an example), it doesn't mean it's the right thing for everybody. I personally gave up drinking after trying cannabis, and I'm quite happy with that decision - I replaced one drug, which I've had very few good experiences with, with another that I've yet to have a negative experience with. Of course I can be perfectly happy without any drugs at all - throughout the last 10 years (that is, before changing my habit), I've only been drunk maybe three or four times a year. However I do enjoy taking drugs for recreational use, while watching certain movies, listening to music, or chilling with friends, and I've used drugs for creative purposes - sometimes even when I didn't intend to be creative, such as inventing four elaborate magic tricks while attending a concert.
Of course I don't think that drugs by themselves bring creativity, or that I can't be creative without them. But I cannot deny that they allow me to view ideas from different angles and lets me see connections that I never made before. I rewrote huge parts of my game design under the influence of drugs, and even when sober those changes are all for the better. I really can't believe some of the secrets I discovered in these characters that I wrote myself - stuff than now seems like the most natural things in the world and explains clues that I originally had put in there without knowing their meaning.

I can't really comment on the effects and misuse of shrooms, since I haven't tried them, but as a social libertarian I resent the ways that drug laws prevent the individual from exploring the potential of his own mind. Drugs have different effects on different people, and what may be good some may be bad for others. Stupot had a bad experience and learnt from that, mchammer seems to have the opposite idea. But  as long as the drug is non-toxic and non-addictive, and doesn't present any increased risk to anybody but the individual drug user, I think adults should be able to decide for themselves.