Disney blocks next Michael Moore film

[Sutebi]

Click on the link and you will go to it. The impeachment trials were about Clinton lying under oath, it had nothing to do with Clinton-haters being called "mentally disturbed." What I actually said in my last post is, yes, people attacked both families (although, I frankly think children should be left out of this stuff) but nobody in the mainstream media is saying, "These Bush-bashers are insane!" The did say this stuff during the Clinton times. Everything isn't the same.

By "people," I mean proffessors and scholars considered "experts" in their fields saying that we should not blame the Muslims because we do not "understand" their religion. There were a lot of people who said stuff like this on news shows, then again there were a lot of people who came out and said, "Hey, guys, these are extremists. Their views do not represent Islam."

Also, the U.S. is still searching for Bin Laden. Merely because the news chose to talk about the war in Iraq and other stories over that one, you think that the search stopped all together? As for the No Child Left Behind act, I do not claim to be an expert on the subject, but it's my understanding that it is a continual proccess and it is just starting out. Should results appear before the key components (standardized testing, starting in 2005-6 school year) has not occured yet?

[MrColossal]

QÃ,  Ã,  Mr. President, in your speeches now you rarely talk or mention Osama bin Laden.Ã,  Why is that?Ã,  Also, can you tell the American people if you have any more information, if you know if he is dead or alive?Ã,  Final partÃ,  --Ã,  deep in your heart, don't you truly believe that until you find out if he is dead or alive, you won't really eliminate the threat ofÃ,  --

THE PRESIDENT:Ã,  Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, if he's alive at all.Ã,  Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not; we haven't heard from him in a long time.Ã,  And the idea of focusing on one person is --Ã,  really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission.

Terror is bigger than one person.Ã,  And he's justÃ,  --Ã,  he's a person who's now been marginalized.Ã,  His network, his host government has been destroyed.Ã,  He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match.Ã,  He isÃ,  --Ã,  as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hideÃ,  --Ã,  if, in fact, he's hiding at all.

So I don't know where he is.Ã,  You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you.Ã,  I'm more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did.

And there will be other battles in Afghanistan.Ã,  There's going to be other struggles like Shahikot, and I'm just as confident about the outcome of those future battles as I was about Shahikot, where our soldiers are performing brilliantly.Ã,  We're tough, we're strong, they're well-equipped. We have a good strategy.Ã,  We are showing the world we know how to fight a guerrilla war with conventional means.

QÃ,  Ã,  But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?

THE PRESIDENT:Ã,  Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him.Ã,  And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure.Ã,  And, again, I don't know where he is.Ã,  IÃ,  --Ã,  I'll repeat what I said.Ã,  I truly am not that concerned about him.Ã,  I know he is on the run.Ã,  I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country.Ã,  I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.

But once we set out the policy and started executing the plan, he becameÃ,  --Ã,  we shoved him out more and more on the margins.Ã,  He has no place to train his al Qaeda killers anymore.Ã,  And if weÃ,  --Ã,  excuse me for a minuteÃ,  --Ã,  and if we find a training camp, we'll take care of it. Either we will or our friends will. That's one of the thingsÃ,  --Ã,  part of the new phase that's becoming apparent to the American people is that we're working closely with other governments to deny sanctuary, or training, or a place to hide, or a place to raise money.

And we've got more work to do.Ã,  See, that's the thing the American people have got to understand, that we've only been at this six months. This is going to be a long struggle.Ã,  I keep saying that; I don't know whether you all believe me or not.Ã,  But time will show you that it's going to take a long time to achieve this objective.Ã,  And I can assure you, I am not going to blink.Ã,  And I'm not going to get tired.Ã,  Because I know what is at stake.Ã,  And history has called us to action, and I am going to seize this moment for the good of the world, for peace in the world and for freedom.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.htmlÃ,  Ã,  let me highlight some parts...

"So I don't know where he is.Ã,  You know, I just don't spend that much time on him"

and

"See, that's the thing the American people have got to understand, that we've only been at this six months."

So six months into this he stopped thinking about Osama Bin Laden? Wow...

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." Also from George W. Bush's mouth.

No Child Left Behind

http://www.democrats.org/specialreports/nclb/

since it's at democrats.org I don't expect you to believe it or read it.

I'm really not expecting to change your mind on anything, I'm mostly wondering what kind of awkward way you can defend these points.

and with comments like this "I have faith in the American troops, and know that they were quite capable of handling Iraq without all the white flags getting in their ways." I don't expect much...

So then why did the US ask for help in the first place? Just to be nice? "Hey other countries, we're totally in control of this but would you like a piece of this action? I mean we don't need any help but can you help?"

[juncmodule]

So, I finally saw F. 9/11 yesterday. I was very pleased. I'm really not sure how anyone is going to say much about Moore "fudging" facts. Most of it was interviews with people and stock footage prooving his points. I'm sure some things will be picked apart but, whatever. The movie, as a film, was VERY well done. At one point, using stock footage, Moore has a scene from 9/11 that is almost beautiful, it's just so well done. I honestly didn't learn much from the movie that I hadn't already learned on the web. I'm sure most of it is stuff that your typical American is unaware of. The film has my thumbs up and five stars and all that hoopla. The audience I was with applauded at the end of the film. Oh, and my favorite "quote" from the movie:

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier..."
       - The President of the United States of America, George W. Bush

I dug around a bit and found it quoted on several sources, including CNN, oh, and in the movie, there is video footage. So, it's not something Moore made up or fudged. I found this on the web:

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0012/18/nd.01.html

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
     - George W. Bush

Oh, and Mr.C and Sutebi, by chance could you start a new topic with your discussion. I know I have contributed to this thread going off topic a lot...but, now that the movie is out (and will be out on the...9th? in the UK) it would be nice to see some proper discussion on it. Thanks.

later,
-junc

[MrColossal]

Junc, wanna know how people can accuse Moore of lying? By lying!

Sean Hannity said that Michael Moore said in the movie that noone in congress has a child in the army when this is in fact a lie! 1 congressman has a son in the army.

Of course, This is a lie. The movie says that no congressman except for 1 has a child in the army.

oh lying liars...

[jason]

Just saw the movie -- have to say it f**king rocks! I plan on seeing it again soon hopefully.

I could care less if it's too one-sided -- f**k that! Bush and co. are evil, and there's not much to that other side. I honestly can't understand anyone who supports or defends Bush, sorry; I can't stand the sight or sound of him at all.

ABBA - Anyone but Bush again!

[Pumaman]

Sorry for dragging up this old thread, but having just seen the film I'd like to say that this time it does meet with my approval.

In Bowling for Columbine there seemed to be far more bias and questionable facts, whereas Fahrenheit (although obviously biased) didn't tell any outright lias or try to fudge any figures ... I agree that it was very well done.

Having said that, having to watch some of Bush's speeches is cringe-making; and that bit where he sat in silence at the school for 10 minutes or so was just bizarre.

I was also somewhat disappointed that Blair wasn't singled out for criticism too, though I guess the film is directed at an American audience.

[shbaz]

Is it out on film yet? I still haven't seen it.

[Matt Brown]

you mean on dvd? that happens in a month I think.

[DGMacphee]

I've also heard it's going to be replayed in theatres. Coincidentally, just before the election.

Also, Moore wants to get the film broadcast on TV before the election. His distribution company (I think it's Columbia) isn't agreeing so far, and I doubt they will either.

I also liked the film a lot.

[MrColossal]

* MrColossal is still waiting on Sutebi's answers

[Ali]

Oddly and unexpectedly, the most interesting film I've seen recently covering Iraq wasn't Michael Moore's, but a BBC4 documentary by Sean Langan (who made Travels of a Gringo).

He met US forces and members of the Iraqi resistance. The odd thing is, only a few people from each group were the maniacs I might have expected. The vast majority seemed like relatively reasonable people. The blame was clearly laid on those politicians responsible for the situation that these individuals were in.

[jetxl]

I liked the film.
But I do have some critic. There was this part where he displayed the countries that were in the coalision in a very degrading way. They forgot to mention countries like england and australia, so it looks like only small countries are in it.

Also, the news made some bogus facts like aluminium plates in a train that might become used for rockets. Moore should have focused on these old news stories and proof that the news was wrong.

[Sutebi]

* Sutebi feels that MrColossal is kind of whiney, but he'll overlook it for now.

Now, I haven't been to these boards much lately, because of the whole real world thing, but I stopped by recently and I decided to pipe up again.

So, why did the US ask for other countries help in the first place? Because they were being polite. Say you're going to go play some Football with your buddies, and you've got a really good team, you don't really need to ask anyone for help, but you'll still invite anyone you happen to pass on your way to the field because, a) they'd be all heart broken if you didn't, and b) more men does add a factor of imtimidation to the game, even if half of them don't do anything. So basically, America was being polite to other militaries of the world. Making them feel good about themselves.

As towards the point of Michael Moore Hates America, if you read the site the filmmaker says that it isn't a film about Michael Moore specifically. It is about why the film maker believes America is great. And he also has some pretty interesting people as interviewees.

Oh, and just for a little fun:
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

Out

[MrColossal]

Yea I'm whiny thanks... I just thought we were having a discussion, you say something I say something you ask questions I ask questions... Ya know?

But again whatever... 3 years and we haven't found Osama [you think we're still looking for him, quotes from the president show that we aren't really.] the US government botched the hell out of Iraq and you think the only reason we asked for help was a show of good faith a kinda "Hey, you want in on this?"

Yea I bet all these countries are totally heartbroken that we didn't ask them to help us out in a war... Man, I feel real bad, we should send cookies or something to them.

So tell me this, if we only asked them to be polite how come when France declined to help there was this big hoopla about them being assholes and such? That makes no sense if all we were doing was asking them out of good faith, we should have just been like "Ok, you got it!"

[Sutebi]

I think it's just a general sentiment that a lot of French are asses. Hey, nothing wrong with that. I know a lot of French people. One of my good friends who lives a couple doors down is French, but he's an ass. It's funny when you get right down to it. So, yeah, it was just a general feeling about the French Snootiness.

[DGMacphee]

I'm glad the American government asked our government to join the team! It was so nice of them to ask! Granted, there're fears we've become a bigger terrorsit target (ala the Jakarta bombing of our embassy), much like Spain, but hey it was sure nice of the Bush Administration to offer the invitation!

And say what you want about the French being snooty, but I think it's far more arrogant to rename your chips to "Freedom Fries" in retaliation to a country of snooty people who don't want to be a part of a stupid war led by a stupid man.

[evenwolf]

Hey guys, since someone dragged up this thread, I should tell you.

I watched this movie at a huge outdoor screening in Crawford, Texas.Ã,  Home of Bush.Ã,  A group of friends took a road trip.  The screening got a lot of press.Ã,  i suppose the paparazzi wanted a riot to break out or tear gas to be thrown or something.

[DGMacphee]

How civil was it? Any major controversy or was everyone just chilling out?

[Sutebi]

Freedom Fries were more or less a joke, nobody really called them that, and it was a governmental decree like I get the impression that you're alluding to in your post. It was just some guys having fun.

I mean, they said the same thing about French Toast, also in jest, but nobody called it Freedom Toast. It was all fooling around. People knew that French Toast had nothing to do with the French, it was named after the man who invented it: Dr. Toast.

[DGMacphee]

Freedom Fries were more or less a joke, nobody really called them that, and it was a governmental decree like I get the impression that you're alluding to in your post. It was just some guys having fun.

I mean, they said the same thing about French Toast, also in jest, but nobody called it Freedom Toast. It was all fooling around. People knew that French Toast had nothing to do with the French, it was named after the man who invented it: Dr. Toast.

From my memory, there was a lot of animosity towards the French during the Iraq war and the whole "freedom" thing was the result of such animosity, even if it was a joke. And even if it was a joke, it was still arrogant.