English 101 with Trihan sometimes!

Started by Trihan, Sun 28/06/2009 09:12:40

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Mr Flibble

Even amongst the UK I've heard people use both pronounciations. As far as I'm aware they're both considered correct.
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Stupot

Both pronounciations are interchangeable.  I'm pretty sure I use both and I don't even think it's especially regional.
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TerranRich

It's weird... I pronounce "either" ee-ther, and "neither" nye-ther.
Status: Trying to come up with some ideas...

Trihan

Yeah, it's mostly personal preference. Both pronunciations are fine IMO. It's also somewhat dependent on the context in which it's used. For example:

"Neither of us were there that day." I would pronounce nigh-ther.
"You weren't there that day? Me neither!" I would pronounce nee-ther.

Mr Flibble

Quote from: Trihan on Fri 10/07/2009 10:43:58
Yeah, it's mostly personal preference. Both pronunciations are fine IMO. It's also somewhat dependent on the context in which it's used. For example:

"Neither of us were there that day." I would pronounce nigh-ther.
"You weren't there that day? Me neither!" I would pronounce nee-ther.

It's weird, I do the same thing and I don't know why.
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TerranRich

Same here.

And now I have a question of my own.

Is it "me either" or "me neither"?
Status: Trying to come up with some ideas...

Trihan

Me neither. Generally speaking you never have two words next to each other in a sentence where the end of the first and the start of the second are vowels with the same pronunciation.

Snarky

Quote from: Trihan on Sat 11/07/2009 03:32:18
Me neither. Generally speaking you never have two words next to each other in a sentence where the end of the first and the start of the second are vowels with the same pronunciation.

I don't think that's true in English? (Although quite likely the pronunciation of one of the vowels will be automatically modified to make the separation clear.) And in this case it doesn't even apply, because (1) you can easily construct a sentence with "me either", e.g.: "You can help me either by doing X or by doing Y", and (2) if it were a problem, you could just use the "eye-ther"-pronunciation.

The reason we say "me neither" is semantic. It's a negative; you're saying that something is not true of you either. Other, perhaps less elegant ways to put it would be "not me either" or "nor me".

Stupot

Yes, 'me either' isn't really correct, although I often hear it in American TV and cinema.

Think of it in these pairs... and stick to them if you want to please the pedants.
*either/or
*neither/nor
('either/nor' and 'neither/or' are grammatically not incorrect. Please avoid ;))

e.g.
* You can either bat or bowl, but not both.
* Children should be neither seen nor heard.

So if something is negative, i.e 'I don't like old people', you would say "me neither", not "me either"
Just like you would never say "Or do I", but you would say "Nor do I".
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Mr Flibble

#129
I say "Or do I" sometimes if I'm playing at being mysterious.

Edit: I was doing a joke. I'm just going to clarify that incase someone tries to learn wrong English from me.
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TerranRich

Mr Flibble: That's incorrect. It would be "Nor do I" or "Neither do I". Hence, "Me neither" would technically be correct. Thanks all!
Status: Trying to come up with some ideas...

Matti

I just remembered one thing I wanted to ask for a long time now but always forgot about.

The word "realize" is used for when you're aware of something.... but is it also used for when you, say, bring an idea to life / make it real? So that you can say "I realized my idea and finally made a game!"?

In german you can use the word for both but I was never sure about it in English.

DoorKnobHandle

I'm very certain that you can use 'realize' in both contexts in English just as well as in German... as in:

(1) ...and only then I realized I wasn't wearing any pants.
(2) ...a project I wanted to realize for years but never got around to.

Stupot

Quote from: Mr Flibble on Sun 12/07/2009 00:56:46
I say "Or do I" sometimes if I'm playing at being mysterious.

Haha, yeah, I see what you mean...

...Or do I?
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jetxl

I have a question not about english spelling but about pronounciation.

"Pritty" is spelled wrong, but if pronounced, does it sound different than "pretty"? Can a person hear the difference?
The same goes for:
sense - sence
would - wood
eye - I
knows - nose

That's all I can think up right now.
Just wondering, really.
hmm, wondering - wandering.

DoorKnobHandle

#135
Phonemes (sounds) are not bound to letters. 'Eye' and 'I' for example are spelled differently but if you record the sounds when pronouncing or transcribing it using the IPA both are identical (/ai/). So, to answer your question, no, there is no difference in pronunciation between none of your examples (at least in AmE, can't speak for BrE).

EDIT: Yeah, sense - sence would be different. The quality of the final sound (the 's') is different, sense would be /s/ and sence /tz/ (can't use proper IPA symbols here unfortunately) basically, I guess.

Andail

#136
Quote from: jetxl on Sun 12/07/2009 17:32:52
sense - sence

Sence?

Anyhow, usually c and s differ in the sense that after vowels (and in some cases consonants), c is always voiceless, whereas s typically is voiced /z/.
Hence, words like ice and eyes are pronounced differently, but beginners/foreigners often miss it.

You might know this, just wanted to add something useful after my "sence?" comment.

Edit 2:
Dkh, in your current edit, you're way off.
Quote
EDIT: Yeah, sense - sence would be different. The quality of the final sound (the 's') is different, sense would be /s/ and sence /tz/ (can't use proper IPA symbols here unfortunately) basically, I guess.
sence, whatever that word means, would be /s/.

Oliwerko

Quote from: dkh on Sun 12/07/2009 17:51:22
no difference in pronunciation between none of your examples

I believe that would be "between any of your examples" ?  :P

DoorKnobHandle

Double negation is completely accepted in African-American Vernacular English. :p

TerranRich

"Sence" is not a word. It's a misspelling of "sense". Just thought I'd mention that.

Status: Trying to come up with some ideas...

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