So what makes a good RPG in your opinion?

[Vince Twelve]

Oh, thank you for that, VWG.  That was excellent.   

[bush_monkey]

VWG, I literally wet myself reading your post.. Which by the way should always be a special power in a RPG.

Also, There is a film of the Old Man and the Sea^TM which I am now in the process of turning into a Final Fantasy clone.

[Retro Wolf]

Why are Icey's threads always so entertaining?

Good RPG's should have epic special moves that cause maximum damage!

Here's some for you:
Hadrion Collides - Peter Higg's giant face appears, he has a tattoo of the Hadrion Collider on his forehead, shoots Higg Boson particles out of his nose.
Facebook fail - Causes 1,597 damage.

[veryweirdguy]

I've put some thought into this, and I think the following things are important when designing an RPG:

Excellent! May I offer you a job as game design teacher at my university? They don't normally teach game design but you are so astounding that I'm sure this won't be a problem.

I always knew posting 1200 words into an internet forum was the best way to launch my career! I'll be there Monday!

Also, There is a film of the Old Man and the Sea^TM

You mean "The Young Man and the Beach" right?

[Snarky]

Topic split. This thread is not about and does not "belong" to Icey; feel free to discuss the topic seriously or sarcastically, but keep the iceanity out of it as much as possible, please.

[Andail]

I think Baldur's Gate II was the perfect RPG, for a number of reasons.
1. You had dozens of classes to choose from, each feeling unique and fun to play.
2. It let you form a party of various characters, making the combinations almost endless.
3. Battles could be fought in so many ways, and even the seemingly impossible enemies could be beaten with the proper method.
4. Tons of lore, side-quests, character romances, if you wanted it. If not, you could just ignore it.

[an Urpney]

Everyone shut up VWG is talking.
(...)

Are you quoting Neverwinter Nights design doc?

[Kasander]

Everyone shut up VWG is talking.
(...)

Are you quoting Neverwinter Nights design doc?

I was thinking it could as well be Mass Effect or Dragon Age (those campfire talks!) design doc It sounds definitely 'Biowarish'.

EDIT: I forgot to mention: that Hemingway-abusing quote is pure gold

[Snarky]

I'm not a big RPG player. I played QFG, a few Zelda clones and a couple of computer D&D-type games, but never really got into it as a genre.

My favorite is probably Betrayal at Krondor, and one of the things I liked about it was the feeling of a big and richly realized world (where every character you meet have real depth), but one that wasn't overwhelming or full of dead ends. I think the key to that is to very carefully vary the level of detail. For example, in the wilderness you can walk around and explore the environment, but you don't really meet any people (apart from monsters and plot-scripted encounters). The towns, in contrast, have a lot of conversations and interactions, but they're represented via a static painting (like in a 2D adventure game). High level of detail, but limited size to explore, to keep it manageable.

Bethesda's Daggerfall, by contrast, was one of the most frustrating gaming experiences I've had. Partly because of bugs, but mostly because so much time is wasted on stuff that doesn't really matter. You can talk to any person you meet anywhere, but almost none of them has anything interesting to say. The story gets lost in all the sidequests and open world faffing about, and even when you get to a dungeon it's procedurally generated and almost impossible to fully explore.

What I take away from that is that bigger isn't necessarily better, that it's important to know your limitations, that scripting/designing things (levels, conversations, encounters etc.) specifically is almost always more satisfying than generating them randomly, and that any mechanic you put into the game should serve some fun gameplay purpose. Don't add haggling just to make it more realistic, if the outcome is that players have to spend another hour in order to get a good deal every time they go to a shop.

Finally, I think in general stories should be about people, that personal stakes matter and resonate more than generic "save the world" quests. So even in an RPG I'm not in favor of the blank protagonist, completely customizable to be whoever you want. (Though it's fine to take on a basic role and decide what version of that role to play. As if you're playing Batman and choosing whether to be goofy Adam West or the tortured Dark Knight.)

[an Urpney]

Bethesda's Daggerfall, by contrast, was one of the most frustrating gaming experiences I've had. Partly because of bugs, but mostly because so much time is wasted on stuff that doesn't really matter. You can talk to any person you meet anywhere, but almost none of them has anything interesting to say. The story gets lost in all the sidequests and open world faffing about, and even when you get to a dungeon it's procedurally generated and almost impossible to fully explore.

I feel just the same about every Beth's game - when first playing Morrowind, I got lost in the woods, attacked by a demon when I tried to find a shelter in some random cave and when I finally found some town, I accidently turned everybody hostile because I took some rubbish that, it turned out, belonged to someone.

Finally, I think in general stories should be about people, that personal stakes matter and resonate more than generic "save the world" quests. So even in an RPG I'm not in favor of the blank protagonist, completely customizable to be whoever you want. (Though it's fine to take on a basic role and decide what version of that role to play. As if you're playing Batman and choosing whether to be goofy Adam West or the tortured Dark Knight.)

This sounds like you were talking about Planescape: Torment only without mentioning the title.

[LimpingFish]

It's easier for me to say what I don't like in RPGs. Some of this has already been touched upon by other people, but:

I dislike having too many systems to keep track of. I dislike weapons that degrade. I dislike amnesiac protagonists. I dislike "Ultimate Evil" stories. I dislike unbalanced economies. I dislike level grinding. I dislike exploration that goes unrewarded. I dislike timed quests. I dislike under-populated worlds. I dislike over-populated worlds full of people with nothing to say. I dislike randomly-generated dungeons.

I dislike elves.