Female Gamers & Creators

Queen Kara · Mon 02/10/2006 02:22:35

Quote from: Renal Shutdown on Sun 01/10/2006 16:14:43
So, er..
Will you be calling the group FAGS?

LOL , nope.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Mon 02/10/2006 03:47:50

QuoteI also like breasts and Chuck Norris.

As long as you aren't interested in Chuck Norris' breasts. I'm sure he'd deliver you a roundhouse kick for such thoughts.

CaptainBinky · Mon 02/10/2006 10:51:21

Quote from: Venus on Sat 30/09/2006 19:10:59
Quote from: Queen KaraSo , how many guys here are interested in creature / child raising simulations and romance novels? lol

Err, isn't it a little stereotypical of you to think that this is what females are generally interested in?

Yeah, this "male-oriented" / "female-oriented" thinking about games winds me up a little. I can where these sorts of things come from, and perhaps statistically it is true. However, some of my favourite games are Nintendogs, Animal Crossing, Princess Maker, etc. Some of my least favourite games are FPS's, and gratuitous violence irks me in games. I like a lot of romantic stories - some of my favourites are Brief Encounter and the romantic portion of King Kong. Does this make me a girl?

I'm less concerned about whether the protagonist is male, female, dwarf, elf, or elephant. As long as the characters fit the roles and are in their own way "likeable" (even if they are an anti-hero they should still be likeable in some way) then I'm sold.

Cap'n Binky

Nikolas · Mon 02/10/2006 11:16:41

What we may be missing is this:

AGS forums, and other forums as well are made for people involded in games devleop,ment, Which makes them a tad older.

Gamers might as well be 13,14, or 17... The ofrums have a "theoriticall" limit of 16 years of age. Certain membemr (include Vluje) have proven that this forum is the best forums ever and that 14 years of age are enough for someone to be matture. Yet laws are laws (and actually this rule does not apply for reasoning as much as actual laws...)

binky: You're far more than 20, so juding from your perspecitve, although respectable as hell (and indeed I know that you buy all games, since I know you perosnally... we work together

), still a gamer might be 13-14-15... I've come (today actually) to realise that judging frfom a perosnal view (I do it so evrybody does it kinda thing), is wrongly oriented. Of course you can make judgements from yourslef, this is where you start, but in the end (in music) producers do exactly that. Make sure that your music has a connectino with the outer world. Same with games. A publishing company (no matter how evil) will do exaclty thatg. Make sure it will sell.

You're view is acceptable an honoured. Again I have to stress that.

But this post is going for Venus/Queen Kara: Your needs are not indentical to the people needs. If you want something done "for the ocmmunity" or fore "female (which lacks indeed)" make a true researh. This is not enough.

I'm heavily dissapointed at this time from things happening in my life. While it is personal (which I will leak in a thread later on, or tomorrow), still I have come to understoof the reason for marekting, money and everything else. I'm heavily dissapointed...

Queen Kara: In my mind: everything can be whatever, but the story and the moral of the sotry,. Make a story, find the people to work with, and I can vouche you that if not me (who am busy right now), music will come and will be amazing (since Ideal with music). What I'm saying is to write the music and get opn with it, don't waste any more time here! Make it happen! Only you can do it!

CaptainBinky · Mon 02/10/2006 11:33:54

Quote from: Nikolas on Mon 02/10/2006 11:16:41
Gamers might as well be 13,14, or 17... The ofrums have a "theoriticall" limit of 16 years of age. Certain membemr (include Vluje) have proven that this forum is the best forums ever and that 14 years of age are enough for someone to be matture. Yet laws are laws (and actually this rule does not apply for reasoning as much as actual laws...)

True, but I read somewhere that the average age for a gamer nowadays is around 26.

Quote from: Nikolas on Mon 02/10/2006 11:16:41
A publishing company (no matter how evil) will do exaclty thatg. Make sure it will sell.

Again, this is true. However, if you look at successful games which appeal to women - things like the Sims to pick a whopper - the thing that made them hugely successful was not that they appeal to women, but that they appeal to both men and women (and boys and girls for that matter). While games designed to appeal to girls do exist, no game exists that only appeals to girls and vice versa. For even if the game is pink and frilly, if there is a good game at the heart of it then some blokes will play it. So what I'm really saying is kinda what everyone else is saying... the only thing that's relevant is whether the game is any good. And as such, I will play a pink and frilly horsey game if it's good... and by the same token I would have thought that a similar girl would play a game with a character with massive breasts (er, for example) if the game is good. Because at the end of the day, aside from the gameplay everything else is just cosmetics.

Of course, I have previously stated that I would get turned off by obscene violence so there are limits... but if the game was really that good I would have to question why have it so extreme?

er... wandered a bit off topic there.

Cap'n Binky

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Tue 03/10/2006 00:01:34

Quoteno game exists that only appeals to girls and vice versa

You mean there are guys that enjoy those silly Barbie NES games? :\

ManicMatt · Tue 03/10/2006 00:10:03

Quote from: ProgZmax on Tue 03/10/2006 00:01:34
You mean there are guys that enjoy those silly Barbie NES games? :\

The pussies! Now this game ROCKS! I LOVE IT!

Domino · Tue 03/10/2006 00:13:36

Damn, where can i find that game. I WANT IT NOW!!

CaptainBinky · Tue 03/10/2006 09:13:46

Quote from: ProgZmax on Tue 03/10/2006 00:01:34
You mean there are guys that enjoy those silly Barbie NES games? :\

I was talking within the context of good games. And those old Barbie games were a bit of a non-game really. There have been more recent Barbie games which are actually rather good fun. Er...

2ma2 · Tue 03/10/2006 13:50:29

It is kind of generic to assume that guys don't have an interest in the dynamics of human relationships. Hell, I even started on a game that worked upon the strained relationship inbetween the protagonists, but let it drop due to that it become painfully obvious that the viewpoint was male. Women are still a mystery to me. Well still and still, I have faith that I once will completely relate to a woman and not resort to being middle age and refer to my misses as "the ol' ball and chain." That being said, the main issue is that even how much I'd want to, I will probably never make a proper female character, but rather a depiction of a female character through the eyes of a male. How many of you guys can honestly say that your female characters are as alive as your males?

Oh, and Harvest Moon is among the greatest game ever made. The greatest game is Beyond and Evil, and I feel no shame in telling you this again.. and again.. and again..

Andail · Tue 03/10/2006 16:03:22

Quote from: 2ma2 on Tue 03/10/2006 13:50:29
Women are still a mystery to me.

And still you were engaged to a girl (if I remember correctly) when you were like 17...that tells something.

Helm · Tue 03/10/2006 16:16:48

QuoteHow many of you guys can honestly say that your female characters are as alive as your males?

Why is this 'wrong' suddenly? I am not interested in a phone drawn realistically, I am interested in a phone drawn as an artist would through his individual vision and ability. Similarly, I am not interested in a 'realistic' depiction of a female (whatever the hell that is) I am interested in how she would be depicted by the artist, be it a him or her. There's no objective representation of anyone in art, and being a woman when writing a woman is only more efficient in getting shallow facts right. I can guarantee you that if you invest yourself in a character you are writing, be them male or female, if you really risk it and put parts of yourself in there, there'll be people of both sexes that will find the character alive and resonant within themselves, maybe not in an obvious ("oh she's 16 and depressed, so am I!") way, but in a more vital one, maybe.

I am so sick and tired of this bullshit 'write what you know' truism. Write what you feel strongly about and let the pieces fall where they may. If there's honesty, there's room for passion. If there's room for passion, there's room for vision.

QuoteOh, and Harvest Moon is among the greatest game ever made. The greatest game is Beyond and Evil, and I feel no shame in telling you this again.. and again.. and again..

I feel your adoration is misplaced. Harvest Moon is the game where an emotional relationship is typifed by the act of breaking into a woman's house like a creepy stalker and reading her journal in which there is your NAME, followed by a number of HEARTS signifying how much she LOVES you.

Let's just think about this for a bit.

Let's think about abstraction versus immersion, about the model this game seems to suggest as 'fun'. About 'life as procedure' and the causality of emotion. I buy you flowers, you add another heart in your sole, Helm entry, in your little bedside journal. One step closer to a fulfilled life, you, my cabbages and the town fair that's coming next summer, every summer, forever. Maybe we'll also get a cat eventually. Can you check my pulse to tell me how many HPs I've got left?

LimpingFish · Tue 03/10/2006 18:58:42

Azure Dreams (PSOne) had a similar "relationship" gameplay device, except you visited the towns resident medium, answered a serious of bizzare questions, and were then told which of the towns eligible females was best suited to you (not for marriage this time, but as a "girlfriend"). You then proceeded to bombard her with random gifts, until you stumbled upon which gifts she actually preferred, and she proceeded to adore you.

Interestingly, the mediums question threads could be manipulated to access a, presumably, hidden thread with homosexual overtones. Following this thread, with questions such as "Do you prefer the company of men?", would prompt the medium to inquire "A-Are you sure?" or "Uhhh...is this what you really feel?", and would conclude with her reluctantly recommending you try for the affections of your male rival, a snooty guy with flowing blonde hair who treats you like dirt.

Harvest Moon: Same Sex Life Partner doesn't seem so far-fetched to me now...

btw, Shadow of Memories (PC, XBOX, PS2) is an adventure game which happens to be designed by a woman. An excellent game, although the main characters (all male) seem to possess "Bishonen" attributes (slighty feminine good looks, etc), a characteristic which seems to exist in a lot of game characters designed by female japanese game creators.

Helm · Tue 03/10/2006 19:02:45

I wish a game handled an interpersonal relationship well for once. Can anyone suggest anything or do I have to file under 'games to make myself'?

Nacho · Tue 03/10/2006 19:04:43

The Sims 2.

ManicMatt · Tue 03/10/2006 22:37:11

Shadow of memories was great! I had no inclination that it was designed by any particular gender, after all I tend to think of games as made by a whole team of developers rather than saying "Charles Cecil made this!".

I like how in Fable my man went to marry this girl, and a person I know who is gay made their man marry a guy. That's so cool! Then on my second go I made my bloke gay because it's something I hadn't done in the game yet! (He married the teacher even though the kids were scared of him)

2ma2 · Wed 04/10/2006 17:48:39

Engaged and living a lie, brother..

Quote from: Helm on Tue 03/10/2006 16:16:48
Why is this 'wrong' suddenly? I am not interested in a phone drawn realistically, I am interested in a phone drawn as an artist would through his individual vision and ability. Similarly, I am not interested in a 'realistic' depiction of a female (whatever the hell that is) I am interested in how she would be depicted by the artist, be it a him or her. There's no objective representation of anyone in art, and being a woman when writing a woman is only more efficient in getting shallow facts right. I can guarantee you that if you invest yourself in a character you are writing, be them male or female, if you really risk it and put parts of yourself in there, there'll be people of both sexes that will find the character alive and resonant within themselves, maybe not in an obvious ("oh she's 16 and depressed, so am I!") way, but in a more vital one, maybe.

Well you're right about that.. still, I admire, or rather get enthusiastic about a well depicted woman, be it by a male or female, where the gender perspective is not obvious. Like "Strangers in Paradise" if you've read that.

Quote
I feel your adoration is misplaced. Harvest Moon is the game where an emotional relationship is typifed by the act of breaking into a woman's house like a creepy stalker and reading her journal in which there is your NAME, followed by a number of HEARTS signifying how much she LOVES you.

Relationship Schmelationship. You're missing the point about the game! Just harvesting your crops and visiting the woods like a proud lumberjack is teh shit. Or take the day of and go fishing. I have very little interest in dating sims, but I do know when I am entertained by simplicity..

Helm · Thu 05/10/2006 00:45:31

I was just making a point about transparency and abstraction, and how in harvest moon you don't 'harvest' any 'crops' or visit any 'woods'. You just move a sprite about on tiles and press a button. The game has so little immersive capability for me, it's just a bunch of disassociated graphics and numbers. Matter of taste.

Erenan · Thu 05/10/2006 00:49:57

Diablo and Diablo 2 are good for both sexes. You kill stuff, and then you go into town and buy things.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Thu 05/10/2006 02:03:48

QuoteDiablo and Diablo 2 are good for both sexes. You kill stuff, and then you go into town and buy things.

Just like the old days! 640 A.D. was a good year.