Free computer, Ipod

Rui 'Trovatore' Pires · Fri 27/08/2004 21:17:01

In the interests of peace, why not postpone the discussion until Relik gives us either the pic of the PC installed and ready to go or his apologies? There ain't much sense in going on like this...

Edwin Xie · Fri 27/08/2004 21:22:26

I agree there isn't a reason why we should talk about this.

Relik · Fri 27/08/2004 21:25:10

All I did was ask anyone if they wanted to help me see if this was real.......I didnt disturb the peace, others flamed me lol

But yeah, just wait for the pic's ;]

Archangel (aka SoupDragon) · Fri 27/08/2004 21:25:34

Hmm, not a lottery eh? Let's take a looksee here

1 Person at the top of the pyramid running this thing
Let's say he emails 100 people to start off

100 people, each need 5 people to get their ipod
Ã,Â \/
500 people, each need 5 people to get their ipod
Ã,Â \/
2,500 people, you get the gist here
\/
125,000
\/
625,000
\/
3,125,000

And I believe that's the limit of the number of people who use the internet in the UK. Even if ALL OF THEM sign up, do the math and you see there are 100+500+2500+125000+625000 = 753,100 people with ipods, compared with 2,371,900 dumb schmucks at the bottom of the pyramid who are left with nothing, because there aren't enough people in the world for them all to find people to sign up. That's even assuming everyone who gets this thing will sign up, which they WON'T.

Rui 'Trovatore' Pires · Fri 27/08/2004 21:58:40

Relik, I'm not saying you disturbed the peace, I'm saying the peace got disturbed.

The point got interesting, though, but right now all that new posters can do is repeat information. Anchangel's post is an interesting one, but the point was already made. And I can bet someone's going to post back at him. And so on and so on and so forth.

Relik · Fri 27/08/2004 22:47:36

Does everyone agree that WIRED.com is legitimate?

IF they do, the they should read this....

http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,64614,00.html

Oh? Look's like it may be real?

Sorry for being sarcastic, but people tick me off when they speak ("iT's A ScAm") before they read.

P.S. IF anyone would still like to help me, hehe, Email me at Dran0@hotmail.com

shbaz · Sat 28/08/2004 00:10:47

Quote from: Relik on Fri 27/08/2004 22:47:36
Does everyone agree that WIRED.com is legitimate?

IF they do, the they should read this....

http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,64614,00.html

Oh? Look's like it may be real?

Sorry for being sarcastic, but people tick me off when they speak ("iT's A ScAm") before they read.

P.S. IF anyone would still like to help me, hehe, Email me at Dran0@hotmail.com

While it iw real, it's still a pyramid scheme. Wired didn't say it wasn't, it just said you could get an iPod. The guy saying it wasn't a pyramid scheme was coincidentally a representative of the company giving away the iPods.

The math still works - eventually, the pyramid reaches the bottom and won't work anymore. The quote mentions that they aren't akin to Amway, who also vehemently denies being a pyramid scheme.

The idea isn't that you can't get an iPod, but that you can't just assume that you'll be able to find a lot of people to refer to because most people realize that in the end there are suckers and there is a good chance that they could be one of the suckers (suckers being the millions at the bottom with no one to refer).

Darth Mandarb · Sat 28/08/2004 00:21:00

I've read it ...

It's still a scam.

But if you're all about it, then good luck.Ã,Â Maybe you'll be the 1 or 2 out of 2,000,000 who gets lucky.

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you though.

Make sure you tell the thousands of people who you get to sign up for this not to use their real e-mail address and to make sure they don't put your name (and real e-mail address) in when they sign up.

Happy spamming!

DGMacphee · Sat 28/08/2004 01:28:52

Relik, even if it's not a scam, it's still an ad (and this includes any promotional material from marketing companies). And we decided not to have any ad-postings here a long time ago.

Sure, the iPod may seem like a good deal, but I always follow the maxim: "If something looks too good to be true, it probably is."

So, I decided to put my maxim into effect by reading the terms and conditions on the site. I noticed a few things that worried me such as:

"Users must be residents of the United States, and there can only be one account per shipping address." -- THis didn't actually worry me. It's a pretty basic comment, nothing big to worry about. It only rules out non-American resident. That includes me, which I'm happy about. Read on, and you'll find out why.

"By signing up for this website, the user agrees to receive emails we or another 3rd party may send about special offers on our website, as well as third party advertisements or offers." -- Interesting, especially when you consider the next part.

"There is no way to cancel an account. If a user no longer wishes to remain a part of this site, they should cease to access their account, and nothing more will happen with their information" -- The bold part worries me in particular.

"This website nor it's parent company, Gratis Internet, does not guarantee the availability of any product on our website; on occasion, products may be back ordered from our supplier or their manufacturer. In cases involving backordered products, we do not guarantee that the products will ship within any given period of time." -- An escape clause if they run out of iPods. How convenient.

I also read their privacy statement:

"We may send you offers on behalf of our business partners. Keep in mind that if you take advantage of an offer from a Gratis Internet business partner and thus, become their customer, they may independently wish to send offers to you. In the event that you are not interested in receiving future offers from these affiliates, you must contact them directly to fulfill your list removal request." -- This seems a little worrying.

"Some of our business partners (e.g., advertisers/offer providers) may use cookies on our site. We have no access to or control over these types of cookies." -- This worries me as too.

Now, get ready for a real kicker because I saved the best for last:

"We may work with other third party businesses using the personal information that you supply to us on the main signup page to bring selected retail opportunities to our members via direct mail, email and telemarketing. These businesses may include providers of direct marketing services and applications, including lookup and reference, data enhancement, suppression and validation and email marketing."

Isn't it strange that there's a clause like this that basically says, "We have the right to give your personal information to other parties for mail, email, and telemarketing purposes." And remember that line in the terms and conditions where it said: "There is no way to cancel an account"

This basically means they own your personal information and can do whatever it wants with it. Even after you "cease access to your account", they've still given your information to third parties. They may not give you personal details to third parties after you "cease access", but they've still got those details on file and have probably already given them to other companies while you were a member. And the only way to stop the junk mail from those other companies is to "contact them directly to fulfill your list removal request". To which, I say "Good luck! HAHAHAHAH!"

Now get ready for this: since you've agreed to do this, these third party companies can use cookies in any way they want as stated in the privacy statement. Gratis has no control over how these cookies operate. So these third-party companies basically have a) your contact details, b) the potential to use cookies. And think about what they can do with all this.

Sure, it's not a scam, but it's a very sleazy way to allow a marketing company the right to post spam with your consent. And if you sign-up, you've agreed to all this, as per the terms and conditions and privacy statement.

I noticed that the privacy statement was reviewed by Trust-e. Who are Trust-e? According to their website, Trust-e is "an independent, nonprofit organization dedicated to enabling individuals and organizations to establish trusting relationships based on respect for personal identity and information in the evolving networked world. " Great, so why did they give the thumbs-up to a privacy statement that doesn't respect personal identity? Well, I looked at their webpage and found this:

And I reread that Wired article that Relik posted. Lo and behold, what did I find:

"it's a new form of online marketing supported by companies like eBay, AOL and Columbia House."

"Subscribers are given a choice of 10 different offers, including a 45-day trial of AOL and a two-week trial of Ancestry.com's genealogy service."

"Instead, they explained, Gratis Internet is paid a bounty for sending potential customers to sites like AOL, eBay or RealNetworks."

So, basically Gratis' privacy statement is worth diddly-squat. AOL sponsered the company that reviewed it. And of course they're going to stamp their seal of approval on it because AOL profits from Gratis' service. Think about it: if eTrust didn't stamp their seal of approval on the privacy statement, they'd risk their sponsership with AOL. Basically, Gratis can say whatever they like in their privacy statement and still get a "seal of legitimacy" from eTrust.

Also, Relik, I don't think Wired's is legitimate. At least not on their position on this issue. Wired is owned by Terra-Lycos, and their privacy statement is also approved by Trust-e, so obviously they're going to write a possitive story that promotes AOL. Plus, they also have a relationship with Doubleclick, another web-marketing company -- so much for an independent view on spam marketing companies.

Plus, the Wired article mentions this line: "FreeiPods.com is certified by Truste, which means the site adheres to the organization's privacy standards. It does not mean the site can be trusted to send out free iPods." Sure, the lack of trust over the iPods is mentioned in the article. However, there's no mention of your personal data being sent to third party companies in the article. Why? I already said why. Because Wired's parent company has a pretty strong relationship with Trust-e too.

And all this isn't some big secret, nor is it a conspiracy, because it's all spelt out in black and white. People just don't bother checking these things. I just did a 2 hour surf and found out all this information. It's easily available.

So, what this all is is just one big fishing exercise by ad companies. They grab a heap of potential customers by dangling an iPod on a stick, spam them per their approval, and there's nothing said victims can do about third party companies using their personal details even after they "cease access" to Gratis because they've already given their consent.

The question you have to ask yourself is: Is an iPod really worth all that spam you'll get in the future?

In any case, I've shown this is clearly just a spam marketing exercise. That's why stuff like this isn't allowed on our forum.

Relik · Sat 28/08/2004 03:21:35

Ok, well I asked a mod to delete this topic a long time ago. The only reason I'm still posting in it is because I still believe that I didn't "Spam" you. If I spammed you, there are probably 100's of links on this forum that "Spam" or Promote another site. I still believe my original text said "If anyone wants to help me" thats why its "General Discussion" I don't care to discuss this anymore, so please just delete the topic, which should have been deleted when a Mod first saw it.....since it was spam

Thanks

Domino · Sat 28/08/2004 03:35:03

Can we just lock this thread and move on.Ã,Â Is there really a reason to keep arguing back and forth whether it's spam or not.Ã,Â Let bygones be bygones and lets keep this one happy community.

I think Relik made a bad choice in posting this, and i feel he is sincerely sorry.

DGMacphee · Sat 28/08/2004 04:06:53

We are keeping this one happy family. But I think this thread serves an important reminder into how gullible some people can be, especially when they don't read the fine print.

Also, here's a Snopes Forum Article on the subject:

http://www.snopes.com/message/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/9/t/001657.html#000007

It seems this kind of thing has been happening since July.

TerranRich · Sat 28/08/2004 04:56:02

Then can SOMEBODY please explain how in the world i got my free camcorder? Did it magically appear out of my ass? Or did I perhaps get it for signing up for offers withOUT having to refer friends?

That's the thing. You could always create alternate emails and play the game that way, if need be. It was easier a year ago. Now it's not so easy to get free stuff.

There IS such a thing as a free meal (http://www.yesitsfree.com) and things CAN appear to be too good when they're really true (www.freeslide.com pre-June-2004).

Edwin Xie · Sat 28/08/2004 05:05:21

It looks as if the company is not making Ipods but making spam

DGMacphee · Sat 28/08/2004 05:26:44

Quote from: QuantumRich on Sat 28/08/2004 04:56:02
Then can SOMEBODY please explain how in the world i got my free camcorder? Did it magically appear out of my ass? Or did I perhaps get it for signing up for offers withOUT having to refer friends?

That's the thing. You could always create alternate emails and play the game that way, if need be. It was easier a year ago. Now it's not so easy to get free stuff.

There IS such a thing as a free meal (http://www.yesitsfree.com) and things CAN appear to be too good when they're really true (www.freeslide.com pre-June-2004).

Yes, you're right, Richie. You got your camcorder because marketing companies were suddenly feeling very generous and decided to give away free stuff without any catches. Cause, you know, marketing companies (or any company for that matter) don't care about silly things like making profits or attracting a client base. How stupid of me for even questioning such motives of marketing companies.

On a related note, I found this Wired article about Truste: http://www.wired.com/news/exec/0,1370,51624,00.html

Notice how they attack Truste, but not as much the companies behind it (such as AOL) or the companies that adapt the policy. Why? Because the companies behind it (such as AOL) are the ones getting the rubber-stamp for their privacy policies and are basically self-regulating. And any that help such sponsers can easily get the rubberstamp too. Basically, they're a front for large net companies to rubberstamp their own privacy policies, despite clauses allowing spam.

Wired, eBay, AOL, and Gratis all have privacy policies approved by Truste. And all are involved in this iPod "marketing exercise".

Here's a good article on Truste with links regarding their history (especially the Yahoo debacle): http://www.unicom.com/chrome/a/000140.html

And like I said, this isn't a conspiracy theory, nor is it news. This is all contained within each company's privacy policy and this kind of marketing exercise was reported by several publications with time periods ranging from a few months ago to several years ago.

What I'm trying to say is, even if you see a Truste symbol on a privacy policy, it still might not be legit.

Andail · Sat 28/08/2004 10:04:38

I think this is a pretty relevant discussion, and I don't see a need to lock it.

Also:

QuoteSorry for being sarcastic, but people tick me off when they speak ("iT's A ScAm") before they read.

That doesn't describe the nature of this debate at all. I think we're being quite calm and reasonable.

DG is doing a good job on showing the well-designed machinery behind a system like this. I myself do not approve on this kind of concealed marketing, even if I would have won a computer or whatnot. Too many people will end up in the claws of the big marketing companies, without any rights or means of defending themselves.

Darth Mandarb · Sat 28/08/2004 15:42:11

QuoteSorry for being sarcastic, but people tick me off when they speak ("iT's A ScAm") before they read.

And perhaps if you had read (the fine print), as Daniel pointed out, you would have realized it wasn't all it was cracked up to be

I'd rather pay a few hundred bucks for an iPod than sacrifice my soul to a spam-scam like this.

Just my personal opinion, as I said before, you might get lucky ... or something.

Relik · Sat 28/08/2004 16:56:16

First off, I did "read" the fine print, and this is what I say:

Who gives a CRAP if I get some extra junk mail in my real mailbox......it's not like I don't get 4,000,000 per month anyway lol. It's not very hard to throw away 1 extra piece of paper a day.

Also, I used a new email address that I won't ever use again after this is over. So, they keep my "info" on file and I can't cancel my account with them. I don't care, they do NOT have my credit card info (you sign up for AOL or something, but it's AOL), telephone number, or anything else of relevance. They have my address (uh-oh, more junk mail :/) and a new email address (never use that one again :O) and thats it, that's all they ask for. If they had asked for my telephone number, I wouldn't have done it, cause I don't like telemarketing. So, to each his own.

Still I didn't want to Debate this issue, people can decide for themselves whether or not they want to sign up. Again, all I did was ask anyone if they wanted to help me.

P.s. Please take note, that they don't ask for your telephone number. Just want that to be clear.

Moox · Sat 28/08/2004 17:03:37

Have you ever heard of identity theft, there giving away your personal info to 3rd party spammers. There putting you at risk to many cyber crimes.

TerranRich · Sat 28/08/2004 18:14:01

I love how people are treating this like it's all some big machine that's out to eat them. I for one understand the principles behind this operation. It's business, people. They want money.

As for giving away my information, I couldn't care less. Everybody already has my info anyway, why not? Why should I care if AOL is one of the supporters? Let them make their money. If I can get something out of it, why should I care if a company sells my info to them. It'll be of little use to them anyway. Yahoo filters out all of my spam emails rather efficiently and I have not received any telemarketer calls int he past year.

As far as I see it, I have a free camcorder, and all I had to spend was $30 on printer ink. I got free trials to a bunch of companies (AOL, Ancestry, etc.) which were useful in their own ways. Freeslide.com had the BBB (Better Businiess Bureau) logo, and I even checked them out with BBB. I did my homework.