Friend with Depression, help!

[Le Woltaire]

Let me say something about medication in general.

When I was about 20 years old, I worked as a volunteer in a psychiatric hospital for young people. I decided to do this instead of making my military service. In Germany we have this possibility.

I stayed there for about a year and helped the personal with minor services like: 
- Make a walk with a depressed person
- Give someone something to eat, because he doesn't want to eat anymore

And some extreme tasks like:
- Clean up the Room, that has been entirely smeared with shit by a patient, and so on...

Well, in that period of my life I got a lot of impressions and some basic psychological informations. I also saw lots of persons, that got a medication and I saw what happened to them:

First of all I recognized that they became thick. Their bodies all got let's say fat but not as if they were eating to much, more like as if they were full of water. They also lost lot's of their personalitity: Before they got medicated they sure were angry and unhappy, but at least they had something like an opinion like: "No, I don't want to do this."

After the continous medication they were all happy and calm, but also very obedient. Some of them didn't even know anymore, what is eatable and what not. I remember myself of a guy that asked a patient during a walk: "Look at that wonderful slug over there! I'm sure it tastes quite well. Wouldn't you like to eat it?" And that boy really tried to eat the slug... I managed to stop him before he put it into his mouth.

Most of them after they were "cured" and left the "hospital" made a drug or scientology carreer because they believed everything that you told them, but they were happy somehow. The depression was cured but the personality was lost. I think even suicide is better than that.

I'm sure these are very extreme cases I've seen...and I can tell endless stories about that year in the hospital. But whatever you do with your friend: Make sure he doesn't end up in a psychiatric hospital and that he doesn't get medicated.

What about homoeopathy or traditional chinese medicine? They offer an alternative cure for this kind of love related problems. I know some persons who really made positive experiences with this. I think it's worth a thought... 

[Meowster]

Thanks everyone for your very helpful, informed replies

I agree with Limpingfish... although in some cases it may be different of course, in the case of my friend, he even takes encouragement the wrong way. Even things such as girls showing an interest in him/making him feel wanted, he uses it to make himself depressed over how they're not his ex...

Le Woltaire: I have asked him to go and see a doctor, he won't do that. I've asked him to changed his diet and try alternative medicine, he won't. I've asked him to take medication or try counselling, he won't.

So I guess you're all right, I'll have to just leave him be until he snaps out of it or reaches a point where he wants to recover.

It's hard though, because like I said... I know that he's an incredibly cool and nice guy underneath his current 'emo' exterior... it's very frustrating...

[Klytos]

What about the obvious thing that he's got a crush on you and it's unreciprocated, making him jealous, angry and depressed?

The thing about being drunk is that you're more honest about feelings and emotions. Maybe it's the lowered inhibitions, maybe it's just that you don't give a fuck about consequences. If he said it while drunk, he thinks it when he's sober.

On another tack, if thats not the case (I seriously think it is from reading your posts, although I'm not there so I don't really know) has anybody just told him to grow the fuck up and get over his ex? I see he's been treated with kid gloves and been kind to, people have been understanding and thoughtful and tried to reason through his pain. Has anyone tried some "tough love"?

[DGMacphee]

Has anyone tried some "tough love"?

Is that code for "masturbation"?

[Klytos]

Ah, no it's not. 

By tough love, I meant somebody telling him he's acting like a fool and should grow a pair.

[MrColossal]

alternative medicine

Can you elaborate on what alternative medecine you suggest?

[Meowster]

Me or the other guy who mentioned it?

I don't know much about Alternative Medicine, to be honest... my boyfriend and his mum are both into it though. I don't think my boyfriend has ever had an antibiotic in his life (dirty hippy ) I personally don't believe in an awful lot of it, but the point is, he's not even trying any of this stuff... he's content to just be a miserable ass... he won't even do a simple thing like try changing his diet.

Klytos, I may have made it sound like it in my posts, but I honestly don't believe he has a crush on me... I think it's just jealousy that I'm in a stable relationship and he wants that.

I feel kinda bad just letting him sort himself out, but I guess it's all I can do.

[Helm]

About tough love, sure, what a depressed person wants to hear is 'DUDE, BE HAPPY!!' as if all the rest of us being happy is the result of pure crystallized condensed willpower since we're all sun gods and reality bends at our whims.

Anatomy is destiny. It's not us that create our moods. It's our biochemical status that dictates them. You're not happy because you make it so, you're happy because you're fortunate enough your situation - emotional, biological, so on - allows for it.

This is very difficult for healthy people to understand. We tend to put ourselves in the place of others, but that's not how it works when someone is ill. I wake up and go to the store to buy food. You can be in a state where you wake up and simply want to die, much less go to the store, and there's no apparent reason for it.

[MrColossal]

the point is, he's not even trying any of this stuff...

To me the point is that if you or anyone else suggest something bogus to him and he does try it, it's not helping anything and never will. It doesn't help, he gets disillusioned to medication thinking that if taking some random herb that a lady down the street suggested doesn't work what could actual medication do?

I'm just trying to express the point that "home remedies" and "alternative medicine" is 99% of the time complete crap. Homeopathy, herbal "remedies" and all this crap is a waste of time and money. Sure, change your diet, eat healthier, have more salads whatever, but don't take sugar pills said to contain the vibrations of healing herbs.

[Blackthorne]

Keep telling yourself that, Yufster.... that he craves the stability.

Girls are so oblivious sometimes.  Moreso than us "stupid" men.

And my shrink once told me to "get a blog."  True story.


Bt

[Akatosh]

Sounds like a tough thing... I wish you luck. And don't take the "medications path"... I can valid Le Woltaire's point. I kind-of "worked" (made my Praktikum) in some kind of a charity organisation (the "Baunataler Werkstätten"), and some people there didn't have much left of their personality.

Anyhow, this may sound a little harsh, but... I wonder how he managed to stay depressed for a that long period of time. I only had something like that once, and it only lasted like 2 days, when I realised I was depressed and said to myself "You don't want to be an emo kiddie and spend the rest of your life being depressed, do you?"

[Meowster]

the point is, he's not even trying any of this stuff...

To me the point is that if you or anyone else suggest something bogus to him and he does try it, it's not helping anything and never will. It doesn't help, he gets disillusioned to medication thinking that if taking some random herb that a lady down the street suggested doesn't work what could actual medication do?

I'm just trying to express the point that "home remedies" and "alternative medicine" is 99% of the time complete crap. Homeopathy, herbal "remedies" and all this crap is a waste of time and money. Sure, change your diet, eat healthier, have more salads whatever, but don't take sugar pills said to contain the vibrations of healing herbs.

I don't think they work either. The reason I suggested them to him was because he does. And I could be wrong you know, they might work, even if it's only a placebo effect.

He refuses to try things he believes will help him (such as alternative medicine), let alone 'real' medication, etc.

My point is that he's in a place, in his head at the moment, where he doesn't even want to try to help himself.



Akatosh... I don't know what kind of medication you're talking about. I'm talking about simple anti-depressants. I have two friends (christ I sound like I hang out with a bunch of emos...) who are currently taking meds for their depression. It certainly does not have this effect you've described... making them lose their personality, etc. It just helps regulate the serotonin levels in their brain, which is being depleted due to their depression.

[ManicMatt]

Right, lets use a friend of mine as an example, in terms of medicine.

He became depressed and bitter, to the point of doing crazy things. This eventually causes him to go to the psychiatric/depressed section of the hospital. You know what I mean. They give him anti-depressents and goodness knows what, and he does indeed lose his personality. He becomes distant, and eventually seemingly insane.

Fast foward a year later. He gets put into a hospital that exists purely for people with his uncommon condition (that I won't get into). He gets put on a whole different set of drugs. These make him excited and hyper. Eventually I see a dramatic turn in him, and he's more or less back to his old self again, from five years ago.

So you see, in hospital they didn't give a shit, and just kept making him permenantly drowsy.

I think this is why one person is saying they do something different to what another thinks they do. (the drugs)

[LimpingFish]

About medication:

Xanax: A really weird drug that makes you go all Jimmy Cameron ("Woo! I'm King of the World!1!"), and can really change how you perceive the world around you.

You still have the same thoughts but the Xanax overrides all other mental feedback, reducing the voice in your head to a faint whine. It's also incredibly addictive. It's a less than desirable state to spend your time, as paranoia can set in.

I wouldn't recommend it.

Seroxat: My long-term companion. I've been on varying strength doses of Seroxat since the late nineties. I think it works. I doesn't treat the core cause of depression, which in my case is OCD, but it allows the mind to cope in a productive manner. Initially there are side-effects (offical and non-official, most of which are documented at length), but these will pass. The only effect Seroxat had on my personality was to combat the frustrations I felt, which themselves were the cause of un-characteristic mood swings and voilent outbursts.

These are the most likely drug-based treatments (and/or possibly Valium) someone in your friend's position will be advised about.

Judging by my own experiences, Xanax is more trouble than it's worth. Seroxat has worked for me, but everybody can react differently.

Hope this helps.

[Sparky]

I've been through depression myself, and I know a number of people who have dealt with it or are dealing with it.

I second what LimpingFish says about Xanax- I know someone who's had trouble with its addictive side.

Regarding losing one's personality due to medication- wow, people here have some extreme stories. But as Yutzster says, there are a lot of different medications ranging from harmless to incapacitating. Judging by her first post it sounds like she knows what she's talking about. Things like Citalopram or LimpingFish's Seroxat (SSRI's) are generally pretty benign.

I hope this isn't an issue for your friend, but I thought I'd ask. Is it possible he's using alcohol or another drug as an escape? I have a friend with linked addiction problems and depression, it's a big mess sometimes.

I personally would stay in touch. But I would be clear about boundaries, and make sure I wasn't encouraging my friend to be unhealthily dependent. He's lucky to have friends like you and your boyfriend, I'm sure some part of him is thankful even if he's not vocal about it and is outwardly jealous of your boyfriend.

When I was depressed in the past, I often wouldn't go out with friends, and I would respond to affection much the way your friend does. I would act in ways that kept me unhappy. Being passive and hopeless felt familiar and safe. I sat in my dark room listening to NIN with the shutters closed, staring at the computer and dwelling on how terrible everything was. I hung on to the bad things that had happened because I was afraid to move on and create a new life for myself.

If he's too hard to be around it might be necessary to spend less time with him or simply tell him you can't be friends with him this depressed. It would be a shame to lose a friend that way, but you have to draw the line somewhere. I hope it's a temporary depression, it sounds like he was a really wonderful person to be around until recently. Best wishes!

[Klytos]

Get him some Dukes of Hazzard DVD's. (Series not the movie) If that doesn't cheer him up, nothing will.

[Meowster]

I hope this isn't an issue for your friend, but I thought I'd ask. Is it possible he's using alcohol or another drug as an escape? I have a friend with linked addiction problems and depression, it's a big mess sometimes.

hey Sparky, thanks for the reply

The answer is yes, he does use alcohol (not drugs ever, though) to 'drown' his sorrows...  he claims he might as well just drink to drown his sorrows as 'it's the same thing, using mind-altering chemicals to make yourself feel better'. But of course Alcohol is a depressant and I've tried explaining that to him, but he pretty much doesn't seem to care or listen to what I'm saying.

I don't understand his absolute refusal to take medication. He says he wants to feel better, and yet he won't even try meds... even though I've ever-so-clearly explained what they do...

[Miez]

I've known a number of (clinically) depressed people, and the only advice I can give you is to step away. You can't help your friend, nobody can but he himself. Tell him that and make sure he understands.
If you really care about him (and it seems you do) just let him know you're there, and that you're a friend. Good luck with this, as it can be tough to see someone you care for in so much (self inflicted) pain.

[nulluser]

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[biothlebop]

From your standpoint, what you should do depends primarily on what kind of person you are, what benefits you.
If you have a need to nurse/guide/help the less fortunate, you will probably do so regardless, but try to do it according to how much effort you can place in supporting someone else while still keeping your head above the water.

I believe depression is a indication of someone trying to cope with loss.
The two main factors that will shape how bad and long his depression gets are how important the lost thing was to him/his identity and how quickly he can adapt. Being "depressed" and "clinically depressed" are in my view the same thing, but the other is on a more extreme end of the spectrum.

The longer someone is depressed, the more that particular state of mind will influence that person's future self, so don't have any expectations that he will be the same person even if he recovers.
He might become more or less likeable, but the reason he is going through this thing is because his former self did not fit with the current situation anymore.

He will probably act seemingly irrationally, test out new ways to react to situations, but the reactions of others (you) to his actions are equally important as they will shape his reconfiguration.
An example: "Emos" might be kind of caught in a reconfiguration loop.
They lost something, grieve over it, people support them for their grief and they adapt to a life where they are more reliant on the support and attention of others in times of need.
Eventually people tire of their whining, they become depressed again and people support them. Repeat.

So, I am of the opinion that depressed people should not be left without help, but what helps me most when I am feeling down is honest dialogue, interaction and out-of-the-box-thinking/new experiences if I am feeling cornered.
This is just me though.

I also believe that the world of tomorrow will still be a place where people primarily fend for themselves and join forces with people that can further their agendas. He has to fight for himself, or you have to be strong enough to fight for two.