Friend with Depression, help!

[Meowster]

Thanks for all your help!

[Tuomas]

You know I would have suggested buying him a whore behind his back, but if it's more than that...

gheez, I've seen this in a movie once or twice, but can't really tell how it ends. Depression in a high level is so scary. Basically if someone close to you is depressed you feel like leaving him be for good because he's annoying, but yet you feel the need to make him feel better. I could see something like a shock treatment helping on me. Like if I got the prostitute, or got beaten up real bad, I think that would wake me up to think about my life. Remember this when I sink. But more than that I can't say.

[Meowster]

The frustrating thing is, he really isn't trying to pull himself out of it. I asked him jokingly if he was going to be cheered up by the time we went on holiday in August, and he replied "no". He does not try to get involved in group activities when we all do stuff together, he does not try to look on the bright side at all. He listens to sad music instead of happy music. It's for all the world as though he is enjoying his woe... which of course I know he's not...

[Helm]

A person with emotional issues cannot be strong-armed into dealing with them. If he is indeed clinically depressed (and because it seems like it doesn't mean it is true. Some people are just attention whores, or too dramatic, or they're trying to fuck their friends' girlfriend) then there will come a time when his life is so acutely unbearable that it'll come down between asking for help, or suicide. Either way, that's when things will happen, not when people explain the benefits of medication to them.

You would do best to maintain a safe distance from this person, make him aware completely and utterly that his round-about advances towards you - 'cause that's what all this emoing sounds like - are hopeless and that you're happy with your current boyfriend (which I guess is the case?) I'd further suggest to stop the endless late-night MSN conversations with him and so on. Inform your boyfriend of what's going on. He, as any other clear-seeing person will see the conflict for what it predominantly is.

If your friend needs help, you can only give it it him when he asks for it. It might be the case that dealing with him as you have so far has only accentuated the issues with his personality,  which may or may not be depression-based.

[Gord10]

I hate saying this; but guess I am not so different from him. "Self-mutilation" and "getting drunk occasionally" are not  things that I don't do (I really have no intention to tell the reasons).

However; after the teenage, I have always been trying to avoid being an annoying emo-kid. I even left writing my personal blog page just because I cannot think of something else but sadness (and I knew my friends used to get sad when they read about my self-mutilation, etc.). I do not have rights to make them sad, especially my problems are things that they can't solve.

I don't know what to offer him or you to do. Group activities would usually work, but he refuses these.

(And yes, usually the prostitutes are not the solutions in these cases.)

Edit: I also agree with Helm.
Even though my situation seems like that guy, I had never told (and would never) my that girl friend these kind of things. His intentions might be bad.

[Meowster]

A person with emotional issues cannot be strong-armed into dealing with them. If he is indeed clinically depressed (and because it seems like it doesn't mean it is true. Some people are just attention whores, or too dramatic, or they're trying to fuck their friends' girlfriend) then there will come a time when his life is so acutely unbearable that it'll come down between asking for help, or suicide. Either way, that's when things will happen, not when people explain the benefits of medication to them.

You would do best to maintain a safe distance from this person, make him aware completely and utterly that his round-about advances towards you - 'cause that's what all this emoing sounds like - are hopeless and that you're happy with your current boyfriend (which I guess is the case?) I'd further suggest to stop the endless late-night MSN conversations with him and so on. Inform your boyfriend of what's going on. He, as any other clear-seeing person will see the conflict for what it predominantly is.

If your friend needs help, you can only give it it him when he asks for it. It might be the case that dealing with him as you have so far has only accentuated the issues with his personality,  which may or may not be depression-based.

The thing is, he has never been emo before... which is why I'm giving him the time of day now. He's never shown a history of being an attention-seeker or an emo... he's always been a really nice, level-headed guy, and this transformation into being emo and attention-seeking (which he is being, now) and kind of aggressive in his attitude towards women... it's really, really sudden and weird. If he'd always been an attention seeker, I wouldn't be so concerned now.

As for late-night MSN conversations and things... hehe, they sound a bit 'dodgy'... they would usually involve my boyfriend too though. He was also very worried about him.

He's never, ever come on to me before or shown any sign, when not being drunk, that he'd like to "go out with me", but it was kind of a snapping point for me, when he started talking about that while he was drunk... he either seems to be having a go at me for no reason, or telling me that he wishes I was his girlfriend... bah.

I really don't like his personality at the moment, I find him incredibly, incredibly hard to bear... but since he has never been like this before his break-up, I can't help but care, since he'd always been awesome before that.

Um, there are some things that might help you understand how he feels a bit better... okay, he's nearly 30, and he was engaged to this girl... she left him for a guy he used to work with... and he has extremely low self-esteem (he won't let my boyfriend try and set him up with a girl because he's afraid the girl might find my boyfriend more attractive than him, and be disappointed...)

... he also has a chronic eye infection and has to wear an eyepatch. One day he'll probably have to have the eye removed. This is, I'm pretty certain, another cause of his depression... that he believes he'll never find a girl who will love him with an eye-patch... if that makes sense....

He has shown jealousy of my boyfriend over the past few months, but I'm not sure it's entirely because he wants to go out with me. In fact, I'm pretty sure he actually doesn't want to, it was just something he said when drunk. My boyfriend and I have been together for a few years and are renovating a house together, live together etc... I think he might be jealous of this relationship, but I'm not sure... he's very hard to understand

Has anybody else here been in a state of depression similar to this, or for similar reasons, or maybe known somebody in a similar situation?

[scotch]

Speaking from extensive experience, I wouldn't worry too much or push pills at him, most contact will be annoying for you until it all blows over, but that's generally how mental illness is.

It's certainly a help if you can continue on being friendly as you are, but you're not really obliged to...

[MrColossal]

Speaking from my experiences, it's not your job to fix him and you'll only go crazy trying to.

You didn't break him and you can't fix him. There is nothing you can say, no little keyword or inspirational speach that will snap him out of it.

Don't just cut off all contact with him but don't try to cheer him out of it. If he's in a real depressed state it's either something that he works through or people trained in this matter will have to try and help.

That is coming from my experience from 3 different people all with severe depression.

[Helm]

What eric said. It's even to a degree, alluring at first, to see if how depression works on a person and what can you say or do to help, but don't try this. If it is depression. I see that word thrown around a lot but then when and if you actually have to deal with someone who can no longer sleep right, forgets things you told them 3 minutes ago, breaks down and starts crying for no reason you can understand, who can't coherently articulate abstract thoughts, who is certain of nothing who is finally incapable of feeling pleasure and happiness in their state of mind... then it separates the 'pop' from the 'psychology' of the matter. We're all a bit sad at times and we have our personal ways of dealing with our downs, but a few downs don't necessarily a depression make. If it's really that bad as what I described, it'll come to a breaking point eventually.

You're not a doctor.. The best thing you can do as a friend is to be patient, and careful. Don't even try to diagnose the situation at this time. Some people have bad things happen to them and they fall into depression, other people have bad things happen to them and they take it as an excuse to be assholes for a while. Time will tell.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Eight months is a long time to remain hung up on a relationship that's over.  Seems a lot of people before me have said they have great experience with this sort of thing so I feel the need to not be repetitive.  I will say, however, that if he hasn't come to terms with things yet then he does need some kind of professional intervention, either counseling or anti-depressants or both.  You can provide none of these things for him, or indeed make him get help, and so you are stuck in the typical situation many people find themselves in where you want to help a person who really isn't at the stage where they want to help themselves.

Analysis:  continue being his friend and encouraging him to get out and meet people.  Also encourage him to work and do other things that he used to enjoy as a hobby.  An idle mind is the devil's playground as they say, and keeping busy will help to slowly get him out of fixating on what was. 

[Mr Flibble]

I'd like to offer advice, but my track record in this area isn't exactly outstanding. It's a pity that his depression sounds more serious than the typical angsty kind people usually complain about. It sounds like he doesn't want help, which begs the question; what exactly does he want?

By anyway, that's insane, an eyepatch would be a massively alluring thing to have. 

[LimpingFish]

Speaking as one of the currently medicated I can confirm, that in my case at least, it does work.

Pre-medication, I was prone to violent outbursts brought on by frustrations stemming from what I believed to be a losing battle with my mind.

When your inner self becomes your prime tormentor, an overwhelming sense of defeat can cloud almost every aspect of your daily life. What other people say to you becomes like a dull relentless drone, and the focus of your frustrations can fall on them.

If this guy is truly depressed, any encouraging words you give him will only frustrate him more. It's depression's Catch 22. At the moment he seems to be in the "If only..." stage of feeling sorry for himself.

"If only I had more money/a bigger penis/straight teeth/someone who understands me/no acne/a short-haired terrier, then everything else would fall into place."

It's a defence mechanism that prevents us from coming face to face with our core problem.

In my case, medication was the first step in regaining control of my mind and my life.

I'm not saying it's a miracle cure, as the odd mental thumb war still occurs, but if your system is receptive to the drug you'll find it can help a lot.

If he is genuinely ill, then he needs professional help. This could be something as simple as talking to a GP. "Mental Problems" doesn't have to mean straitjackets and giant butterfly nets, and just talking to a GP is a good start.

But be careful. It'll probably take him a long time to admit that it's him, and not everybody else, who has the problem. At the moment he's a parasitic narcissist and, unconciously or not, he's feeding off the ability to make himself feel vindicated by bringing down the people around him.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

if this guy is truly depressed, any encouraging words you give him will only frustrate him more. It's depression's Catch 22. At the moment he seems to be in the "If only..." stage of feeling sorry for himself.

I disagree with this portion of your diagnosis, Dr. Fish, in that you seem to have mistaken encouragement for pity.  Encouraging someone to go out and do things and telling them that the girl they were dating was a bitch and will get hers are two different things.  The last thing anyone needs after a bad relationship is someone helping them to harp on it, or to tell them to 'get over it'.

[LimpingFish]

I apologize if it sounds like I'm sermonizing, or speaking with an authority beyond my own experience. But I shall continue, regardless.

There are no encouraging words, because the tainted mind will automatically twist their meaning. The narcacistic element of his problem at the moment will react purely out of desire to protect the ego.

"I don't need help, I don't need you telling me what's wrong, it's not me who has the problem! Stop acting like you care! If you really cared, you'd sleep with me/tell me what I need to hear/misc, etc, etc"

It's all awfully familiar to me.

He needs an epiphany, a sudden moment of clarity. He needs to reach a point where he's exhausted all other blame avenues, and the only one left has a big arrow pointing at him. When he sees that alienating everybody close to him has gotten him nowhere, he'll make a postive move. Only then should the encouraging begin, when he will be all the more receptive to it.

It's a tricky situation that can go either way, really.

Of course, this is all based on the assumption that he is actually suffering from depression.

He could just be a git.

[Helm]

A new relationship is very sheldomly the cure for depression stemming from the ruins of an old one.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

There are no encouraging words, because the tainted mind will automatically twist their meaning. The narcacistic element of his problem at the moment will react purely out of desire to protect the ego.

I will respectfully disagree with you on this point.

[Phemar]

I agree with Dr. Fish. Any positive feedback or compliments you give him he will take the wrong way. He knows he's depressed and the fact that you're saying just what he wants to hear won't help. He'll know that you're just saying it and he'll just feel like you're patronizing him.

[Timosity]

My best mate went into a huge depression for a few years after breaking up with a long term girlfriend who he expected to marry.

For months he would just lie down in front of the tv, not say anything, and barely respond to any form of communication. For most of this time he still worked as a postman, went to work, came home and lay down, went to work etc (I still don't know how he managed to do it, but I guess it took his mind off his problems while he worked) [he was probably about 25 then, now almost 31]

His brother and I tried to get him to come out as often as we could but all his response was, was "nah" using a lot of effort just to get that murmur out.

We never gave up on asking him to go anywhere, even just to the shops, but still never did anything. he said he could never sleep either but he was always snoring in front of the tv.

His ex girlfriend got married to the guy she left him for within a year, and I still haven't told him [probably about 4 or more years ago] (cause I didn't want him to slip back into depression) and strangely he still doesn't know (not that it matters now)

Eventually his parents had enough of his problems and got him to see a few different doctors, eventually he was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder which used to be called manic depression, which is really the same thing as clinical depression.

He was put on a variety of meds, I'm not sure what they were, one was Lithium, but almost instantly, instead of being a sloth, it was like he was on speed. He wouldn't shut up, and every second word was fuck.

He's still on meds years later and he still talks a lot more than he used to, but can't listen for shit, these drugs fuck with your short term memory, you become only interested in what you have to say. I always talk to him about stuff and have to repeat myself all the time or say "yeah, that's exactly what I was telling you about five minutes ago.

It's better than being a sloth, but there comes a time in your life when you really need to be clean, and not have to be dependent on meds or other people for that matter, just to function normally.

He had another girlfriend a couple of years ago that he treated badly (not physically) but just didn't take seriously, cause he didn't want to get emotionally attached, he's still friends with her.

But he's got a very serious girlfriend now, who he'd been friends with for a year before they got together, and I think he's almost off his meds. there's still always been signs of depression but there's a difference to not being happy all the time, and completely removing yourself from society.

I don't think this story is going to be of much help.




I would still keep contact with him, but whenever he starts to try and bring you down to his depressive level, just end the conversation.

Just let him know that you are still there, If he doesn't want to go out anywhere, that's fine, but don't stop asking, it just keeps them in the loop and may make them feel accepted at some subconscious level. and eventually one day they may feel up to it, but they may also just want to bring everyone else down and possibly make a scene in public.

I'd advise against any medication if possible, but it can help them break out of a rut (but that's the danger of any medication whether it be prescription or illegal drugs, they are addictive and once dependent, contradict what they were used for in the first place)

He's probably jealous of your relationship, cause he sees a similar situation he could have possibly been in, and it eats him up inside. Time may help eventually, but I don't know your friend so I'm not sure how he's bounced back from previous situations.

And with time, it totally varies between people, and how they treat themselves, and what they've been through in the past, could be months, even years, and they'll probably never be the same, but sometimes that can be a good thing.

I've got other stories about depression, but this one seemed to fit the situation

[ManicMatt]

I'll post my thoughts here too, but they'll probably be of little use.

I can think of two occasions when I was depressed. The first time was at school, when I was about 14-15. I won't go into why, but I would go from lesson to lesson silently, people would talk to me and I wouldn't talk back. People would crack a joke to cheer me up. I would hear the joke, and even find it funny, yet was so bad that I couldn't even raise a smile. It was like I was a prisoner in my own mind. I did have suicidal thoughts, but I didn't act out on them. Eventually, as time passed by, I was just sick of feeling depressed and snapped out of it, slowly. I began to reconnect with the world. Shame this hasn't happened with your friend.

The other occasion, was even worse, and was nearly the end of me. Eventually I went counselling, deciding not to take medication. I am of the sort who doesn't like to rely on drugs unless I really have to. The counselling was just depressing me further, having to talk about all my problems over and over, like as if I hadn't told them to enough people already.

Once again I just moved on with my life.

I wonder why he hasn't just got sick of being sad.

I wonder, if you did stop being so sad for him, and trying to cheer him up, would this have a postive or negative effect on him. Hmmm...

[DGMacphee]

We went to a restaurant together (me, a friend, my boyfriend and this guy) and he spent the whole time being depressed and not involving himself in the conversation. When we were leaving, my boyfriend and I gave him a hug and he was still silent, and then when I tried to hug him again (because he looked miserable) he pushed me away and told me to stop trying to make him happy.

Big mistake. Do not hug him if he's acting depressed for this long. If he's not involving himself in the conversation and acting really silent or not taking his medication when he's supposed to, hugging him validates his behaviour. He thinks, "If I act depressed and distant, that means people will show me affection."

What you want to do is not validate this kind of behaviour. What you want to do is wait until he actually makes an effort, then hug him. It's fine to hug people when they're depressed, but just as long as they have a focus upon rehabilitation. It sounds like your friend is making no effort whatsoever.

A small effort would be him voluntarily participating in conversation. A bigger effort would be him going back on medication. But so far, he's not doing anything like this. So don't hug him until he does.

What you want to show is basically that you sympathise with his situation but you'll only put in the same amount of effort that he's willing to put in himself. If he puts no effort into himself, you shouldn't put any effort in him either. Reserve your efforts for another depressed friend who actually deserves it.

It's similar to what LimpingFish said and what some of the others said about attention-seeking. What you basically want to is essentially reward him when he actually invests proper time and care into himself. And, most importantly, you've got to make this clear to him. You've got to be clear in your communication with him, along the lines of: "I care about you, but I'm not willing to invest my time in you unless you're willing to find a healthier frame of mind for yourself." And suggest ideas, akin to what I've mentioned above.

It sounds harsh, but you've got to be assertive in this situation. The whole "hugs to the emo guy for being so emo" is making things worse.