Hey Texas girls! Don't want/need vaccinated against STDs? Too bad...

[Raggit]

Ghormak,

Naw, mandatory HPV vaccinations haven't killed my family and pets. Ã, Yet... wait till they find out it causes some other disease.

More seriously, I'm upset about this because it is such an obvious you-scratch-my-political-back-I'll-scratch-your-corporate-back manuever, and it is once again the people who get caught in the middle.

Like I said in the beginning: Ã, Where will it end? Ã, How far will the government go to make us "safer?"

Who cares what the cause of it is as long as women are less likely to get cervical cancer?

That's like the people who say, "Who cares if the government is reading our mail and listening to our phone calls as long it's to prevent terrorism?" Ã, It's the principal behind it that offends me.

Helm, I'm not quite seeing what you mean. Ã, What is your opinion on this particular issue?  How am I taking a moral highground here?

[Pesty]

Look up Merck's history. Lawsuit after lawsuit for negligence involved in the death of users of almost all of their drugs. Look up Gardasil. It's still in the testing phases. So technically, the girls these drugs are being forced on are guinea pigs...

I'm willfully ignorant? Fine. Call Bush, the governor of Texas, and Merck's CEO so I can kiss all their asses and join the club of the informed.

Yep, that's what I'm doing. Kissing all those peoples' asses. Because I'd rather NOT GET CERVICAL CANCER than uphold my pretentious self-righteousness.

You guys are all over the map here. You're bitching about so many things that your cases fall flat. Pick a problem and stick with it. If you want to argue about the political side of it, then go for it. If you want to complain about the fact that it's mandatory, great. If it's untested drugs used on people you hate, go for it. All I'm saying is that I'd much rather be less likely to get cervical cancer than worry about who's paying who to make it mandatory.

Raggit: HPV is NOT just an STD. It comes in many forms and can be just as dangerous to a nun as it can to a hooker.

I like that the only other person besides me who actually has to worry about HPV is the only person I agree with here.

[Domino]

Raggit is just stating that a vaccine should not be forced upon you by the government. If you need it, then it should be voluntarily given. We do have a matter of choice, and not have the gov tell us what we should do to our own bodies.

[Helm]

Helm, I'm not quite seeing what you mean.  What is your opinion on this particular issue?

My post seemed extremely clear. Are you making an effort to understand me or what?

My opinion on this particular issue is this: I don't think any vaccination should be mandatory. They should be opt-out at best. The only exception would be something that is highly dangerous and an infected host can pass it along so rapidly or whatever. But stuff like flu shots, measeles etc, I see no reason for them to be mandatory.

I'm not a big fan of the goverment telling me what to do.

Therefore I don't think this shot should be mandatory. But I don't think that if we were to agree some preventative shots like measeles etc are okay, then this isn't okay because it's for UNDERAGE VIRGIN WHORES ONLY.

[esper]

All I'm saying is that I'd much rather be less likely to get cervical cancer than worry about who's paying who to make it mandatory.

Then go get the vaccine. Make your kids get it. But don't assume everyone wants it. I haven't examined the method of administration yet, but if it's subdermal: my 12-year-old niece, for one, has an actual clinical fear of needles.

And, for the record, I'm against it because A) it's the government forcing people to do something, and B) it's only mandatory because certain bigwigs stand to profit from it being so. Like I said earlier, lobby to have it become mandatory in your state. If no one profits, it won't happen.

[Pesty]

Raggit is just stating that a vaccine should not be forced upon you by the government. If you need it, then it should be voluntarily given. We do have a matter of choice, and not have the gov tell us what we should do to our own bodies.

I wish that were just what he was saying, because then I could actually agree with him in a way. But really, as mentioned before, what's the difference between this and a vaccine for Tetanus? I had to get all those childhood vaccines before I could go to school, and then again when I moved and my old doctor's office lost all my medical records. I didn't have a choice then, it was either that or my parents would get in trouble for not making me go to school. And HPV is something I'm A LOT more worried about than Tetanus.

Esper has a point with it being untested that I'll agree with as well, but the fact is that, if given the choice, someone who had cervical cancer would've gotten the shot mandatorily instead of dealing with cervical cancer, in spite of the risks of it being untested. This isn't the flu we're talking about, it's cervical cancer.

[Raggit]

Wow, this is the fastest moving thread I've ever seen.Ã,  :oÃ,  Ã, I can't get a response written without having to re-do it all over again because of all the new posts!Ã,  (Not that I'm complaining.)

I sense a tremendous amount of miscommunication here.

So here's my summarized opinion on this for clarity sake:Ã,  Exactly what Domino said it is.Ã,  (Thanks for defining my opinion for me!Ã,  )

I believe that this should be available (but not exclusively) to those who choose to be very sexually active and who want extra protection.Ã,  Those who choose to be abstinent should be respected by the government, and not be thrusted in line to get a shot they don't need and don't want.

[Pesty]

Wow, this is the fastest moving thread I've ever seen.Ã,  :oÃ,  Ã, I can't get a response written without having to re-do it all over again because of all the new posts!Ã,  (Not that I'm complaining.)

I sense a tremendous amount of miscommunication here.

So here's my summarized opinion on this for clarity sake:Ã,  Exactly what Domino said it is.Ã,  (Thanks for defining my opinion for me!Ã,  )

I believe that this should be available to those who choose to be very sexually active and who want extra protection.Ã,  Those who choose to be abstinent should be respected by the government, and not thrusted in line to get a shot they don't need and don't want.

Did you see the part where I said HPV wasn't just an STD? I'm not sexually active but I'm still very worried about getting cervical cancer from HPV. Just because the most likely strain to cause it is sexually transmitted doesn't mean it's the only one.

[Helm]

Raggit, let's get right down to the crux of the matter.

Are you abstaining?

[Raggit]

Helm, what does that got to do with it? 

Not sure if that's supposed to be a serious question or not, but I have nothing to hide: the answer is probably yes...  and no.

Yes in the sense that I'm not the type who'll go for a one night stand with somebody I pick up in a bar, but no in the sense that I'm not opposed to premarital sex, as long as I respect and trust my partner.

[Sylpher]

Isn't the point of making such things mandatory to force a certain standard of living at all levels of society? The only viable argument, as has been pointed out... twice, is that the vaccine itself is not fully tested. All other arguments fall under the "Why should I have to learn math? I should be free to be ignorant!" set of thinking or silly corporate/government conspiracy theories.

[Raggit]

Wow, this is the fastest moving thread I've ever seen.Ã,  :oÃ,  Ã, I can't get a response written without having to re-do it all over again because of all the new posts!Ã,  (Not that I'm complaining.)

I sense a tremendous amount of miscommunication here.

So here's my summarized opinion on this for clarity sake:Ã,  Exactly what Domino said it is.Ã,  (Thanks for defining my opinion for me!Ã,  )

I believe that this should be available to those who choose to be very sexually active and who want extra protection.Ã,  Those who choose to be abstinent should be respected by the government, and not thrusted in line to get a shot they don't need and don't want.

Did you see the part where I said HPV wasn't just an STD? I'm not sexually active but I'm still very worried about getting cervical cancer from HPV. Just because the most likely strain to cause it is sexually transmitted doesn't mean it's the only one.

Whoops, sorry I missed you on this one. Ã, If you're afraid of getting cancer (I am too) go get the shot, by all means. Ã, But let each person decide for herself whether or not it is right for her.

[Raggit]

Isn't the point of making such things mandatory to force a certain standard of living at all levels of society? The only viable argument, as has been pointed out... twice, is that the vaccine itself is not fully tested. All other arguments fall under the "Why should I have to learn math? I should be free to be ignorant!" set of thinking or silly corporate/government conspiracy theories.

I don't think the "why should I have to learn math" argument is exactly synonomous with "why should I have to get a shot against HPV when I don't need/want it?"

The vaccine doesn't guarantee you protection from cervical cancer, nor does it guarantee protection from getting cancer anywhere else, which could be just as deadly.  As the CDC states, the best prevention for this is being sexually responsible.  (Eating right helps, too.)

[Pesty]

Wow, this is the fastest moving thread I've ever seen.Ã,  :oÃ,  Ã, I can't get a response written without having to re-do it all over again because of all the new posts!Ã,  (Not that I'm complaining.)

I sense a tremendous amount of miscommunication here.

So here's my summarized opinion on this for clarity sake:Ã,  Exactly what Domino said it is.Ã,  (Thanks for defining my opinion for me!Ã,  )

I believe that this should be available to those who choose to be very sexually active and who want extra protection.Ã,  Those who choose to be abstinent should be respected by the government, and not thrusted in line to get a shot they don't need and don't want.

Did you see the part where I said HPV wasn't just an STD? I'm not sexually active but I'm still very worried about getting cervical cancer from HPV. Just because the most likely strain to cause it is sexually transmitted doesn't mean it's the only one.

Whoops, sorry I missed you on this one. Ã, If you're afraid of getting cancer (I am too) go get the shot, by all means. Ã, But let each person decide for herself whether or not it is right for her.

I really have to ask this now. Are you from the US? If not, that may explain why you don't seem to get the fact that there are a lot of mandatory vaccines here. Like I (and many others) have said, what's the difference between getting a vaccine for tetanus and getting a vaccine for HPV?

[Sylpher]

Isn't the point of making such things mandatory to force a certain standard of living at all levels of society? The only viable argument, as has been pointed out... twice, is that the vaccine itself is not fully tested. All other arguments fall under the "Why should I have to learn math? I should be free to be ignorant!" set of thinking or silly corporate/government conspiracy theories.

I don't think the "why should I have to learn math" argument is exactly synonomous with "why should I have to get a shot against HPV when I don't need/want it?"

The vaccine doesn't guarantee you protection from cervical cancer, nor does it guarantee protection from getting cancer anywhere else, which could be just as deadly.  As the CDC states, the best prevention for this is being sexually responsible.  (Eating right helps, too.)

Which, again, falls under the it being properly tested and not if it should be mandatory or not.

[Raggit]

Pesty:

Yes, born and raised in the US. Ã, 

I'm having difficulty finding a list of what vaccines in America really ARE mandatory. Ã, If anybody can find such a list, please post it here.

Let's talk about tetanus vaccinations. Ã, I'm not sure if tetanus vaccines are mandatory or not, but I wouldn't be as opposed to them if they were, simply because you can get infected with tetanus very easily. Ã, You step on a rusty nail, you have 72 hours to get protected against something that can kill you. Ã, (The mortality rate for tetanus is somewhere around 30%, I think.)

You're going to be making a conscious decision to have sex, and should know the risks. Ã, 


Sylpher:  Agreed.

[Kweepa]

You may need to understand Texas to understand this.
Firstly, there are a lot of immigrants. If parental consent is required, it will likely not be given, because the parents don't speak much English and want to have as little to do with the schools as possible. Also, these parents are mostly very catholic and opposed to anything that hints at sex.
Secondly, there are a large number of medically uninsured children, so the best way to get this vaccination to children is to give it at school.
Thirdly, it's in the bible belt, so vaccinations against something that is perceived to be transmitted sexually are a taboo subject.

I am all for this if it's safe. I haven't looked into the results of the clinical trials.
It galls me to agree with something Rick bloody Perry is doing, and particularly to see how in the pocket of the drug company he is, but that's not a reason to dismiss it out of hand.
$360 per child does seem like price gouging, given how many of these will be administered over the next few years.

Mandatory vaccines are generally for infectious diseases, where opting out is to push the risk of the vaccination onto other people and therefore very selfish.
In this case though, making it mandatory is to break the taboo.

Raggit, HPV is not just transmitted sexually, and anyway, how many teenagers "make a conscious decision to have sex", weighing up the risks and so on? It's often impulsive, hence the large number of teenage pregnancies.

[Pesty]

Pesty:

Yes, born and raised in the US. Ã, 

I'm having difficulty finding a list of what vaccines in America really ARE mandatory. Ã, If anybody can find such a list, please post it here.

Let's talk about tetanus vaccinations. Ã, I'm not sure if tetanus vaccines are mandatory or not, but I wouldn't be as opposed to them if they were, simply because you can get infected with tetanus very easily. Ã, You step on a rusty nail, you have 72 hours to get protected against something that can kill you. Ã, (The mortality rate for tetanus is somewhere around 30%, I think.)

You're going to be making a conscious decision to have sex, and should know the risks. Ã, 


Sylpher:Ã,  Agreed.

HPV IS NOT JUST AN STD. You acknowledge this and yet you STILL are talking about it as if it is. So you say you're not opposed to people getting mandatory tetanus shots. So clearly you're not opposed to people getting mandatory shots.

I'm sorry, I can't continue this. You're clearly only bothered by the idea of a mandatory HPV vaccine because you think it's an STD. Which I've already said it's not. Maybe you should think about your stance on mandatory vaccinations a little more.

[esper]

Yeah. I'm kinda floating in the middle here. I'm not sure why you guys are so caught up in the STD issue... I understand and respect all the women agreeing with it. But the main issue for me, being a male and therefore exempt, is this: How is it a conspiracy theory that an UNTESTED drug is mandatory? I could see if it was "Miracle drug proven to ward against HPV!" But it's not. It's not even in any advanced stage of testing. From what I understand, it's not through the initial stages, and they're just now doing the drug/placebo test. It could be that any results the drug has shown has been purely psychosomatic, and it's also possible that long term effects could CAUSE cervical cancer, or something comparable. So then, why is it mandatory?

Because it can make people in certain echelons money. No conspiracy theory there...

[Raggit]

There are some 30 types of HPV that are sexually transmitted. Ã, I think that's what we're talking about here, right? Ã,  Only about a dozen cause any form of cancer. Ã, This, by the way, includes penile cancer, too. Ã,  That means it can potentially affect me, but I'm not at all worried about it.Ã,  I don't want to be told I have to have a shot for it.Ã, 

There are numerous other kinds of HPVs, some which are relatively harmless. Ã, (For instance, the kind that just cause worts.) Ã, I don't think we need to have mandatory vaccines against THAT, do we?

It is my understanding that these most dangerous forms of HPV are sexually transmitted, and therefore we should put more emphasis on teaching personal responsibility, and not just giving people a shot in place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_papillomavirus#Skin_warts


I am feeling lost myself at this point.  The last two hours are a bit of a blur, and I'm left with some more research and re-assessing to do.