Banks and how to cheat them?

[Mr Jake]

Well yeah, the risk of getting caugh it often the deterrent.  Using at ATM machine isn't all that safe either, you're still on camera.

[Kweepa]

I can do it, but won't because they'll find a way to get to me? Does this sound right? The only reason I'm not doing it is because they will find out who I am? Other wise nothing else prevents me? This sounds bizzare the least...

I don't understand. What more reason do you need?
You know, there are old ladies wandering the streets clutching handbags which I hear are filled with personal effects. Perhaps you could try a spot of mugging.
Or carjacking. I believe that people wantonly walk around with their carkeys! All you need to do is render them unconcious, take the keys and drive away in the car.

[Derwo]

So I thought, all I have to do is steal a card and start paying bills like that...

Why so complicated? Here in Germany you can have it much easier...

Two years ago my boss sent me to the bank to fetch money for the companies Christmas party. All he gave me was a payout form in which he put account number, sum and his signature. That's it.
I drove to the bank, showed the form, the bank clerk compared my boss' signature with a deposited one, and then she led me to her colleague. Again a short look at the form, but only to read the sum. Jackpot! Before I was handed out 3500 Euro in cash, she even had asked me, if I prefer small or big notes (and people say Germany is a desert in things like customers service Ã, :). No one asked for my ID till then...and neither did anybody ever after. Merry Christmas, Boss!
Little fun fact: The company I work for is active in data security and banking service.

So all you need (assumed it wasn't a personal fault of the two bankers ) is the account number and a quite similar signature of the account's owner, and it's not a big problem to fake a signature if you have enough time (Confess! We all did at least once at school! ......ok, YOU did!.....I'm a little angel Ã, ).

[Potch]

There are cameras at every filling station I've ever been to with an automated credit card system not requiring pins. To get away with this relatively small amount of extortion you'd need to use fake plates and a disguise every time, and you'd risk felony charges.

I wouldn't say the risk is worth it, nor would most people, so it's a relatively benign security flaw. Besides, when a card is lost you'd be an idiot not to cancel it ASAP. You're only liable for $50 of unauthorized transactions, no matter how high, in the US. and according to that article, in Britain too.

Actually, many many gas stations in the US do not have cameras at the pump.  The person that stole my card used it at three different gas stations, where there were not cameras at the pump, AND they did not have to use a pin.  They only had cameras inside the store.  As I said though, I cancelled the card as soon as I knew it was taken.  Since it was taken at about 3am, and I was asleep at the time, I didn't know until about 8:30 the next morning.  Also, maybe it is just my particular bank, but I was not liable for ANY of the unauthorized transactions.  My bank recompensated me for all of it, including overdraft charges that occured.  I was actually more upset about some of the personal items that were in my purse at the time it was taken.  Those I can never get back.

[Nikolas]

I don't understand. What more reason do you need?
You know, there are old ladies wandering the streets clutching handbags which I hear are filled with personal effects. Perhaps you could try a spot of mugging.
Or carjacking. I believe that people wantonly walk around with their carkeys! All you need to do is render them unconcious, take the keys and drive away in the car.

If it's only that, then I think that the best thing to do to prevent me from forgetting my PIN number, is writting it down to the card!
So the only only only reason is that we'll be busted and not that somethings are "protected"? That's what I mean, I would expect some things to be a little more protected.

For example. My house here in the Uk, has no real lock. When you get out you turn the key 90 degrees. Just that! In my house in Greece, I had a security door, with two locks in both of which I had to turn the key 4 times! But I never insured my Greek house, where I'm seriously thinking of doing it for this one, although the only thing that's worth something is my PC and my headphones. And they say that breaking-in-house has gone up! Well of course. Any burglair from Greece will feel like it's paradise here. I would really feel safer if I could lock 3-4 times my door, on the way out. Now, I don't feel protected.

And my bike was stolen. Worth 25 quid, but I used it every day. Why? I didn't lock it well enough. I'm a fool. Plain and simple. The lady with the purse is a fool (you know hat I mean). A guy with a card does not have a choice!

[IM NOT TEH SPAM]

Something like 3-4 locks on a door is nonsense.

If soneone really wants to break into you're house, you'll do it.  One of my friend's bikes was stolen, and his house was broken into--The bike was worth $300-$400.  He's got 3 locks on each door and a security system wired to every door window or crevice, but his house was broken into.  Twice.  All that stuff will do is slow a thief down, and make you sleep better.  Mabye catch some people if they're stupid enough.

But Sevemcrea has a point, there are many people out there who would be easy to steal from.  But most people don't feel like knocking down an old lady to take her purse or stealing someone's car keys.  It's also easy to steal a movie from a video store, to sneak into a movie theatre, but do most people do it?  No!

And a 90 year old lady isn't going to stop carrying around a purse just because she's an easy targed.  And the word you're looking for is "senile", not "fool".

[Potch]

Women other than old ladies carry purses.  Also, men carry backpacks, briefcases, and other types of bags.  Are they fools or senile as well?  Men who carry wallets in their backpockets are easy targets for pickpockets, so are they fools or senile?

[IM NOT TEH SPAM]

I wasn't referring to young women or men with briefcases or even pickpockets.

"You know, there are old ladies wandering the streets clutching handbags which I hear are filled with personal effects. Perhaps you could try a spot of mugging."

Men and young women are not referred to as old ladies.  It was a specific issue, not a general topic of theft/pickpocketing.

[Potch]

But there are MANY women and men that carry personal effects in bags.  What makes carrying that stuff senile?

[Nikolas]

And a 90 year old lady isn't going to stop carrying around a purse just because she's an easy targed.Ã,  And the word you're looking for is "senile", not "fool".

First of all, the first one I called a fool was myself. I was hoping that this fact along with teh parenthesis, next to the word fool which said "you know (w)hat I mean", would help to avoid this. I don't mean senile (although I had to look it up, and thanx King_Nipper). What I'm saying is that sometimes, we do mistakes, bad judgements, things that if we could take back time we wouldn't do. One of these things is my bad locking my bike. It's not having a debit/credit card. That's what I mean.

And of course it is harder to get into a house with 3-4 locks instead of half, what are you talking about. Of course, 3-4 locks mean more goodies inside.

And anyway, I'm not an easy target (at least I believe I am not...). I'm 1.94 m, 110 Kgr, quite agile. 28 years old. That does not make me an easy target. Someone of course could pickpocket me. This has nothing to do with my appearance. But in order to avoid that, I keep my wallet in a safe place, my money in two different places. And my bagpack in front of me, not on my back. At least this way, I believe, that I'm doing something to prevent me getting robbed. Succesfully or not I'm not sure (it has not yet happened). But at least I am doing something. I know what I'm carrying, and I have common sense. An old ladie carrying a pursue like it's a lolipop (or whatever, you get the picture), had no common sense in that precise matter.

With the cards I don't have a choice.

I hope that explained something...

[SSH]

However, young men are the demographic group most likely to be mugged.

[Nikolas]

However, young men are the demographic group most likely to be mugged.

I didn't know that.

It sounds kind of crazy. But now that I think about it, my brother in law, who is like me, has been mugged. My brother and bot my cousins have been mugged. My mother has never been mugged.

Oooops. I've got to be more carefull.

[Kweepa]

Yeah, the only person I know who was mugged was about 25 at the time. Got a knifewound on the face too.
Possibly muggers target young men because they're the most likely to be carrying a fat roll of sovs?

[Mr Jake]

Young men are likely to be carrying MP3 players, phones, expensive watches, wads of cash etc. I guess.

Little off topic but on the topic of muggings.
I've been mugged before, luckly it was nothing serious, the guy was drunk and forgot to ask for my phone (first he said money, then when I didn't have any walked away, then came back and grabbed my CD holder), so I phoned my friend who went out and waited for the guy (he was walking towards his house) and he got my stuff back.  It wasn't too serious, but still enough to shake me up.

[esper]

It's easy in America to get away with all sorts of crap, and our judicial system doesn't really care. They would rather be processing cases about how some fat bastard is getting even fatter by eating too much McDonald's food and sue the pants off Ronald McDonald himself, but all the while our criminals sit in jail and eat steaks and watch cable television.

I, who work at a hotel, have access to thousands of credit card numbers daily. If someone pisses me off, I can ruin their life. I have access to their name, their address, their telephone number, their signature, photocopies of their drivers license, credit card number and expiration date, and a lot of the time I can find out other personal information about them over the internet, if I need to. I was really aggravated with a guest once, and I told my coworker about it...

He now has two new laptops, and no one has come knocking on his door yet...

[SSH]

Just in case I'm ever in need of a hotel in the US, can you tell me which one you work for so I can avoid it like the plague and keep all my posessions, thanks very much say hi

[esper]

lol I had nothing to do with him. I could have been the responsible party, but I chose to be the... umm... responsible party. I'm just saying, be careful who you piss off, because more people have access to your personal information than you think.

Besides, this happened in Rhode Island (east coast) and I now live in Arizona (west coast, almost 6000 or so miles away.. Ha, you Scottish guys with your tiny country....)

[Pumaman]

Of course, there is a way to catch you if you do something like that. My point is though that the banks don't seem to give a shit about all of this.

The banks, and the police, don't have the time to bother with small-scale fraud. If you use a stolen credit card to buy $30 of petrol or $50 of groceries, the chances are nobody will come knocking at your door. It's when you really start to take the piss and get into the $1000+ sort of area that they will seriously start looking for you.

I, who work at a hotel, have access to thousands of credit card numbers daily. If someone pisses me off, I can ruin their life. I have access to their name, their address, their telephone number, their signature, photocopies of their drivers license, credit card number and expiration date, and a lot of the time I can find out other personal information about them over the internet, if I need to. I was really aggravated with a guest once, and I told my coworker about it...

He now has two new laptops, and no one has come knocking on his door yet...

Yeah, but that's a different sort of situation -- that's an abuse of trust and quite a serious fraud charge if he was found out.