Alice in Wonderland in popular culture - need some help

[police brutality]

I need some help.

I'm going to write an essay about Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland for my school. Everything is ok except one part.

Is it correct to say that Alice has some sort of cult status?

Why? Why does this happen?

What do you think is her relationship to some social subcultures today- like goths?

If you can add anything that you think I could use, I'd be very grateful. thanks.

[Steel Drummer]

If it helps, there was a gothic, dark adventure/shooter/horror game a while ago called American McGee's Alice (or something like that). You might want to play that game.

[police brutality]

American McGee's Alice! Love that game. I have a picture of her in a frame hanging from my wall and another pasted inside my locker.

I can't wait for McGee's next work:



I will mention the game in the essay, but I think it's popularity was not because the people really know the story, but because it's very effective as shock factor to see a little girl with a knife, so I can't use it to explain Alice's role in social subcultures today.

[veryweirdguy]

I think it's safe to say that wee Alice has had a strong and definite impact on popular culture, why as soon as I saw the title of this thread I thought "White Rabbit" by Jefferson Airplane, a certain episode of "Lost" and The Matrix (another reference to following the white rabbit I believe)

I'm sure if I sat here and thought about it I could find 1837 more, but whether there is a correlation between the references made to Alice In Wonderland and it's role in social subcultures is another issue I suppose.

So in conclusion, this post has been of little to no use whatsoever I guess?

[MrColossal]

I wrote my highschool senior thesis on Charles Dodgson, hooray.

I think people lump Alice in Wonderland in with the absinthe drinking, goth crowd. They take the story, try to make it darker and add in things like striped stockings and other things attributed to that culture.

Hippy culture latches on to the whole mushroom aspect of Alice and basically flaunt the caterpillar on a mushroom as some sort of icon.

I believe they both look at the stories and say "Dude must have been on some serious drugs to write that!" and wedge that in to their culture as best they can.

Because people can't write weird stories without tripping balls.

In my opinion

[jetxl]

Is it correct to say that Alice has some sort of cult status?

Yes, since everybody knows the story. Everybody grew up with it.
I think the reason it was a succes from the start, is because it was a parody on children stories.

What do you think is her relationship to some social subcultures today- like goths?

None. Alice is a child of 10 or so. She doesn't have a subculture.
Besides, the first youth culture didn't happen untill the rock 'n roll era. Before that, children behaved like angels and always did what their parents told them (or so they claim).

Goths might like the fashion of 1850, but this has little to do with the Alice's Adventures in Wonderland story.

I believe they both look at the stories and say "Dude must have been on some serious drugs to write that!" and wedge that in to their culture as best they can.
Because people can't write weird stories without tripping balls.
In my opinion

Wait, are you of opinion that writers can't write surreal stories without drugs, or are you of opinion that hippies/goths are of opinion that writers people can't write surreal stories without drugs?

[MrColossal]

I am of the opinion that some people feel that anything mildly weird must have been written/drawn/created under the influence of a drug.

[Tuomas]

I think, what you should do, is go to the nearest record store and buy Annie Haslam's "Annie In Wonderland", just because it's an awesome solo album from the best singer ever!

[Ali]

There are elements in Alice in Wonderland/Through the Looking Glass, and adaptations thereof that lend themselves to cult status. The hookah and the mushroom and the cat are the most obvious examples. I also believe Lewis Carrol's interest in illusion and in nonsense means that his work has been a great resource for people interested in drug addled oddness. As MrCollosal observes, that doesn't mean that Alice in Wonderland is drug addled oddness.

I think the reason it was a succes from the start, is because it was a parody on children stories.

I strongly dispute this assertion. Alice is a children's story, and one that has been heavily adapted and parodied.

What do you think is her relationship to some social subcultures today- like goths?

None. Alice is a child of 10 or so. She doesn't have a subculture.
Besides, the first youth culture didn't happen untill the rock 'n roll era. Before that, children behaved like angels and always did what their parents told them (or so they claim).

This is doubtful on two counts. The Macaronis are a great example of a youth culture before the 20th Century. Moreover, Alice doesn't need to have subculture in order to have had great influence on the subculture of the 1960s.

[police brutality]

I believe they both look at the stories and say "Dude must have been on some serious drugs to write that!" and wedge that in to their culture as best they can.

There are elements in Alice in Wonderland/Through the Looking Glass, and adaptations thereof that lend themselves to cult status. The hookah and the mushroom and the cat are the most obvious examples. I also believe Lewis Carrol's interest in illusion and in nonsense means that his work has been a great resource for people interested in drug addled oddness. As MrCollosal observes, that doesn't mean that Alice in Wonderland is drug addled oddness.

I guess this explains her relationship to some subcultures. It could also be said some people just have a fascination with everything weird and for obvious reasons Alice fits the role perfectly.

Goths might like the fashion of 1850, but this has little to do with the Alice's Adventures in Wonderland story.

I'm pretty sure there's more to it- any goths here who can explain?

[lo_res_man]

I always felt that besides making a ripping good yarn, alice in wonderland is about logic and the nature of reality. For example, in the walris and the carpenter, a very funny, if rather disterbing song , also asks a few question about logic. such as can the sunshine at night? that is, is night when the sun goes down or is it a defnite time of day? if its when the sun isn't shining then its never night in the arctic in summer. yet we also say, in the arctic, it is light, at night. when the child turns into a pig she says that it made a very handsome, pig,but a very nasy child, again a question of definitions and when things are in between can the be both, and where does the line cross? As well as a kid, if you get to read it, it makes almost all other children stories seem a bit tame. thats my opinion anyway

[Pesty]

It's funny, the silly stories people make up to entertain kids. Children love it when adults come down to their level and forget things like logic and sensibility that seem to be staples of adult life. I love telling completely random stories, equivalent to Alice in Wonderland in silliness, to my nieces and nephews.

Does this mean I'm a drug user? I must be constantly high in order to think up these sort of things! But the fact is that I've never been high, not once in my entire life. And I hate that a good imagination is constantly credited to drug use.

It really annoys me, all the uninformed mythology that surrounds Alice in Wonderland. The so-called "drug references", the idea that Charles Dodgeson was a pedophile who was in love with Alice. I've had a slight obsession with the stories since I was a kid, and with that came an interest in who created those stories. Clearly because he's a grown man and told stories to little girls, he wanted to have sex with them. The fact is, much of this is speculation. I recommend reading the book "In the Shadow of the Dreamchild" by Karoline Leach for a well researched, alternative view to what's been believed for so many years about Charles Dodgeson.

As far as popular culture, the effects on his stories and poems, especially Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass, are far reaching. If you look for them, you'll see them everywhere. The amount of ones related to goth and hippy culture are actually very few, they're just the most obvious, most obnoxious ones. You could refer to games like King's Quest 6 and the latest Oblivion expansion pack, The Shivering Isles, and books like "Alice" by Whoopi Goldberg. There's the movie "Jabberwocky" (which I've never seen, but I've heard is actually pretty terrible).

With the proper research, you could have a very interesting piece on your hands. I hope you share it with us once you're finished with it!