It's been 25 years..

[rharpe]

For anybody who might of been offended by the cover of "Two Virgins" I've made this new improved version:

That version is much better... thank you! Now if only they would have done that 25 years ago...

[Nine Toes]

I'm just doing this to vent, so feel free to ignore me.

Dimebag Darrell was also shot and killed, one year ago today (the same day as Lennon to clarify, as my post is a few hours late) by an angry fan who was upset about the breakup of Pantera.  I didn't hear a single damn thing about him on the radio, or television.  Kinda pisses me off.

I have nothing against Lennon, from what I've mostly heard, he was a great guy, and his music was okay, but what makes him so fucking special?  Darrell, from what I've heard, was also a great guy.  He loved people.  I've heard stories about him giving away amps, pedals, and guitars to kids who were down on their luck.  Just like Lennon, he loved music, and was good at writing it.  Lennon may have been an influence to a lot of modern music, but so was Darrell.

I realize that the media (the local and national news) may not be familiar with heavy metal news and icons (Pantera wouldn't be their first choice in music, but the Beatles would be).  But I think that is somewhat stupid, because Darrell was a human being too, not just some drunken metal-head low-life like many people would think.

I must have heard about Lennon's death 20-some-odd times on the radio today, but not one word about Darrell.

So this ends my interruption of the thread about John Lennon's death, to give some credit where I felt it was due.

[Nikolas]

Kinoko: I was hoping it would be a joke of some kind, but even so: I can't even start to believe that people would joke about the death of someone/anyone. And from the rest of your post it doesn't seem that it was a joke, but anyhow... I like you too 

rharpe: I love porn. And I love the official word pornography. And if you are refering to this specific record then, I don't think it is that bad. I can link you to some lovely sites, where you can find pornography. But I agree with you on one thing. The whole issue about Lennon has taken huge proportions and he could even be considered a god or a saint. Which is bullshit, but check my last paragraph.

Mr. Hyde: You are right! Lennon (un)fortunately is now a legend and will remain this way, for a lot years to come.

Especially since he's dead for 25 years you can hate all you want the "blind" fans, the "deaf" ears, the "money driven" media. I definately think it's more their fault than anyone elses.

[Nacho]

He was a great melodies composer. I can make a compilation of his music and I'll surelly get at least 3 hours of enjoyable music, funny, sad, touching or reivindicative, no matter, but enjoyable...

I think he went too far into reivindications... Not because that reivindications shouldn't be made... Ã, World needs idealists! but I see some videos of him and I feel that he was so deep into reividications that he was constantly annoyed with the worLd. I preffered when he was in the beatles, saying the same, or approximatelly, but with humour.

But is that an obstacle for not liking him, or his music? Good Lord, no! Mr. Andail is the official socialist peacifist AGS boy, maybe the person most politically oposed to me I can find, but he's probably one of the members I adore more.

And it's not a matter of closing my eyes when he posts idealists posts. I don't avoid parts of his personality. It is just that, following with the example, Petter is a graphic artist, a musician, mittens 2003 host, the man who invited me to drink Rum, the guy who made gravity experiments in a Greek beach, throwing peebles to the sand, the guy who tryed to speak Spanish, being polite with my girlfriend... Having that, the fact that I can't agree with him in a little aspect of his personality becomes ridiculous towards friendship aspects.

The same happens with the rest of the people. I haven't lost a friendship, or being unable to start a friendship because I don't like an aspect (even an important one) aspect of the personality of the other people.

Why a percentage of religious people just can't do this and automatically has a grudge against people who does not agree with them? Man, if religion finally is a reinforcement of beliefs that will make you automatically going and hating people, I am out... The main message that all religions say is "Love the others". If people can't understand this, and denies the first and most important message for deffensing the other stupid 1000 messages that religions say, I am out.

But that is not a post against religions. Religions are like safety belts... Safety belts are made for saving lives. If you cut the safety belt of your car and use it for commiting suicide we can't go and blame the safety belts, can we?

Rharpe, there was a man who was shot 4 times, he left two orphans and a widow. If you think that the REAL problem is that he made some records you don't like, you're miles away of understanding the message of love that religion stales, you have a problem. Go to the India, shave your head and become Hare Krishna, or Buddhist, or explore whatever you want to find the path, because you are really lost.

And Kinoko... Relax... You hate Nicolas Cage, Lennon... I have a black list too, don't think I am an angel, ok? But in mine it is Hitler, Stalin, Castro, Pinochet and Karadjic. Take a look to the list of people you officially declare as people you hate and realise it's insane to have such list compared with the people that it's out there... It is a pitty that a smart, funny and talented person like you goes wasting energies expressing hate to people that is not the people who really deserves it.

EDIT: Changed "Lennon looked annoyed with the word" for "Lennon was annoyed with the worLd"

[Andail]

Jesus, I don't get this at all.
Needless to say, I guess, I like Lennon's music, I respect his political standings and I think he was an extra-ordinary person when he lived.

His death was a huge tragedy which affected just so many people.

Now, what I don't understand one single bit is how some people choose to defile a tribute thread like this with just hatred and insults. Seriously, if you don't like Lennon, or his music, why feel this urge, in this particular moment, on this particular date, to be a complete ass?

Sorry if media doesn't focus on your particular idol. It's not our fault. If you hold Pantera dearer than Beatles it's totally ok with me, but what can we do about it? Not every death gets the same amount of attention. Incidently, my uncle died on a date not far from today, also 25 years ago. Nobody cared about that.

Rharpe (who is, for the record, supposed to be a good christian), way to shit on somebody's grave. How the heck can you say that Beatles have had a generally bad effect on people for 25 years, when their music was mostly about love and caring? With all the crap bands we have today which preach nothing but hatred and bad behaviour, how the heck can you stare yourself blind on beatles, of all bloody bands?
Since when is it a good christian's duty to trash-talk dead people? This is so hypcritical my stomach aches.

Kinoko, sometimes it's cool to be provocative and all, but you're just being rude and insensitive for no reason. As I said, this isn't at all about peope having different tastes when it comes to music, but it's one thing expressing your disagreement and another thing being down right bitchy. You show a disrespect for human life that can only be matched by your predilection for kittens.
So, please stay out of this thread, just away with you, cause this really means something to me, and I refuse to see a person who cared for love and peace being connected with that crap attitude of yours. Sorry.

[TheYak]

I, personally, don't care for the music of Lennon or the Beatles.  And yet, I mourn the loss of somebody taken before their time by a person who deemed it their right to pass judgement.  I sympathize with many of his ideals and a couple of interviews I've read and heard with him have been, for the most part, quite interesting and somewhat edifying. 

For the fans, I'm sorry for the loss of an influential cultural icon.  For those that aren't, at least mourn the loss of one more peace-loving person who represented the antithesis of his demise. 

[Kinoko]

I'm sure you are, and I will stay away, but allow me one more shining moment in the spotlight.

Jesus christ, some of you people need a sense of humour. *sigh*

[Andail]

Kinoko, great retorts, now can you please try to make yourself just one bit more obnoxious?

I'm not sure it can ahieved, though, after that "you need some sense of humour" comment, along with that *sigh*.

Seriously, there isn't a trace element of respect for you left in my body at the moment.

[Nikolas]

Farlander and Andail: Thank you.

[Candle]

When I get older, losing my hair, many years from now,
Will you still be sending me a Valentine,birthday greetings,
bottle of wine?
If I'd been out 'till quarter to three,would you lock the door?
Will you still need me, will you still feed me,
When I'm sixty-four?

Hmm------mmm---mmmh.
You'll be older, too.Aaah, and if you say the word, I could stay
with you.


I could be handy, mending a fuse, when your lights have gone.
You can knit a sweater by the fireside, sunday mornings, go for
a ride.
Doing the garden, digging the weeds, who could ask for more?
Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm sixty
four?


Every summer we can rent a cottage in the Isle of Wightif it's
not to dear. We shall scrimp and save.
Ah, grandchildren on your knee, Vera, Chuck, and Dave.


Send me a postcard, drop me a line stating point of view.
Indicate precisely what you mean to say, yours sincerely wasting
away.
Give me your answer, fill in a form, mine forever more.
Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm sixty
four?

by John Lennon/Paul McCartney

[DGMacphee]

wow, look at this thread! there are people with different opinions on the intranet-o-tron??? who'da thunk it???

Seriously, can both the Lennon-lovers and Lennon-haters chill out? Love him, hate him, whatever. But stop turning on each other. As Mr Pink says, "Hey, let's be professionals about this!" Also, why do I have to be Mr Pink?

And here, you want a bit of Lennon humour? Okay, here's some levity...

The Dude: It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Donny: I am the walrus.
The Dude: You know what I'm trying to say...
Walter Sobchak: That fucking bitch...
Donny: I am the walrus.



In conclusion.... SHUT THE FUCK UP, DONNY!!!




Note to self: Two Steve Buscemi references in one post. Not bad!

[Squinky]

I surely didn't intend to upset anyone with my statement, or disrespect anyone.

And not to take over the thread with religous debate, but I felt I should address a few things said about religion.

I feel it is unfair to jump all over Rharpe, or anybody else who is or claims to be religous when they say or do something wrong. Just because the are in an organized religion does not mean they suddenly become saints, they still have opinions, they are still people full of peoples flaws.

Another statement that struck me was Farlander saying that a percentage of religious people have issues with hating people and, well having issues with people. This is not a religous phenomenom (did I spell that right? Time to go watch Ghostbusters I guess) This is human nature itself. This is the outspoken, extremist religion if anything.

I personally am a religious man, I don't hate gay people, or any of that routine. I swear too much and have a bad sense of humor... I don't think I ever try to force my beliefs on anyone, and try to always respect others views on the subject.

Again, any loss of life is tragic. Especially when a life is cut short...Sorry for butting in to the thread...

[SpacePirateCaine]

Will John Howard feel bad that I said that? Even less likely because he'll never know.

Apologies for the levity. I'm done now.

[Helm]

saints, they still have opinions, they are still people full of peoples flaws.

Sure everybody says a few flawed things now and again. Rharpe silently refused to explain why Lennon and the Beatles have been a baaad influence for over 25 years though, he didn't say 'sorry, my bad, I guess cultural interactivity might be a bit more complex than that' or anything. He just ignored my question to explain why, so I'm not cutting him any slack until he explains, and we can see how exactly his religious beliefs can stand along with what I suspect to be honestly quite twisted political beliefs.

Personally, I can find a lot of things wrong about the media exposure of the beatles. They're the archetypical post-religious iconic group of people with saviour complexes, exposing their super-ego from their high alcove of pop stardom, influencing on a massive scale. I think pop icons have done nothing for us, and in fact have fed this modern disease where vecuous publicity has become the paramount goal for the everyman. But this is a general phenomenon of the modern times and can be examined without having to tie Lennon's death into it. What I hear is 'I don't agree with Lennon, and because Lennon had massive influence, it's GOOD that he died'. This is just wrong, it can't be true, coming from a catholic christian?

Kinoko: there's plenty of senses of humour around. Apparently not all parallel to yours.

[SSH]

I'd just like to point out that "John Lennon" is an anagram of "Lone Jehovah"

COINCIDENCE?? ??

* SSH places his copy of Catcher in the Rye down on the table

[DGMacphee]

Dude, you just BLEW MY MIND!!

[rharpe]

Rharpe silently refused to explain why Lennon and the Beatles have been a baaad influence for over 25 years...

The album cover with him and Yoko naked is bad enough... isn't it.

...he didn't say 'sorry, my bad, I guess cultural interactivity might be a bit more complex than that' or anything.

I actually did apologize.

He just ignored my question to explain why, so I'm not cutting him any slack until he explains, and we can see how exactly his religious beliefs can stand along with what I suspect to be honestly quite twisted political beliefs.

Poronographic covers, "Make love not war" message, etc., does not go too well with what I stand for as a Catholic. He promotes immorality... does anyone know what that is anymore?

Personally, I can find a lot of things wrong about the media exposure of the beatles. They're the archetypical post-religious iconic group of people with saviour complexes, exposing their super-ego from their high alcove of pop stardom, influencing on a massive scale. I think pop icons have done nothing for us, and in fact have fed this modern disease where vecuous publicity has become the paramount goal for the everyman.

Not just the Beatles...that's right.

But this is a general phenomenon of the modern times and can be examined without having to tie Lennon's death into it. What I hear is 'I don't agree with Lennon, and because Lennon had massive influence, it's GOOD that he died'. This is just wrong, it can't be true, coming from a catholic christian?

I'm not shitting on his grave! It's like what Christ said, "It would be better if you were not born then to scandalize a child." He has definitely scandalized many, even after his death. Many of you are so desensitized, you wouldn't even know it if you were.

I will still pray for the repose his soul, for no one really knows whether he is in Heaven or Hell. And for the record: I don't hate anyone but the Devil and his minions! 

[SSH]

It's like what Christ said, "It would be better if you were not born then to scandalize a child." He has definitely scandalized many, even after his death. Many of you are so desensitized, you wouldn't even know it if you were.

Ummm, I think you need to check that quote. I think he said that about someone who would betray him, not someone who "scandalizes children" whatever that means...  or maybe you equate lennon with Judas?

[big brother]

Matthew 18:6 reads:
(quote from Jesus)
"But whoso shall cause one of these little ones that believe on me to stumble, it is profitable for him that a great millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depth of the sea." (ASV)

That being said, I don't see what's so pornographic about the album cover. I wouldn't say they're naked as much as nude. America is over-sensitive to nudity (as opposed to other more harmful things, like violence). I'd rather my child see a nipple (I mean, if he was breastfed, he's seen them anyways) then someone breaking another person's neck in a movie.

What a way to hijack this thread, right?

IMO, The Beatle's music was good from the time they made Rubber Soul (1965) to about 1969. But The Grateful Dead pretty much make the Beatles sound like they have the musical prowess of the Backstreet Boys. But who cares, that's my opinion, right?

[SSH]

Ah, right, rharpe must have got that one and Matthew 26:24 confused.

just noticed:

"Make love not war" message, etc., does not go too well with what I stand for as a Catholic.

So you're saying that the catholics would rather that people killed each other than procreated (possibly even with their spouse!)