on the feeding of trolls...

[Darth Mandarb]

I wasn't suggesting we implement that here (though I wouldn't mind if we did).  We (the mods) have talked about it before but not really discussed implementing it here as, continuing to beat the very dead horse here, there really isn't a "troll epidemic" on the AGS boards.

However, I do not see how a troll-flag is any more an "abuse of power" than the act of banning a person (which is very common on web forums (even though we don't do it much here)).

The moderators are there for a reason.  They moderate the boards to keep them functioning cleanly and to whatever guidelines they have put in place.  Even in a democracy there are still rules and laws that govern the general behaviors of its members, there are those that enforce these rules and laws, and there are consequences to those that get out of line (in whatever manner).

Sure the troll-flag functionality could be abused.  Just as the ban functionality can be abused (and I've seen blatant and ridiculous examples of this on other forums).

It's all dependent on the way the boards are run/moderated and there's really no "moral" difference between the two as far I'm concerned.  If the moderators are the type to abuse the ban function they'd probably abuse the troll-flag as well.  However if, like here, they do not abuse the ban they wouldn't abuse the troll-flag either.  Case by case example.

Personally I think the troll-flag is less offensive than an outright banning.  If you ban somebody it is blatantly saying "you are not welcome here" where-as the troll-flag simply curbs their behavior for a bit.  Also, a banning has (in my experience) just caused more strife in the long-run because the banned person almost always feels the need to sign-up again and have a quick burst (until they're banned again) of trolling and abuse.  And often times if they're banned again they come back, again, to cause even more strife.  It can go on and on.  The troll-flag simply causes them to think that nobody is taking their bait, and they fade away as they aren't getting the attention they need.

Sincerely, that really sucks what happened to you at Craig's List.

I have to say though that I don't really see the connection between that and a troll-flag on a forums (other than the obvious 'hiding content' thing).  Their algorithm definitely screwed you over but I'd be willing to bet it vastly improves the over-all functionality of their site.  Imagine if, trying to use Craig's List, it was flooded with obvious spam and junk and trying to find something of value was near impossible... they'd have closed up a long time ago because nobody would use it anymore.  eBay has a similar algorithm in place and (years ago when I used to sell stuff on eBay) I always logged out and checked my listing(s) as a guest to ensure they were showing as I wanted them to.

I'm not trying to belittle your experience with them (I'd be pissed too) but I think it might be influencing your views on the troll-flag in a negative way because, as I pointed out above, the ban functionality is little different than a troll-flag (IMHO).

[straydogstrut]

See, I knew this topic could have a proper discussion, well done mate;-)

I have to say i'm with Snarky on this. I know the forums aren't a democracy and i'm all for having moderators to police the boards, but I don't like the idea of posts silently disappearing in the middle of the night. Think of their families :'(

Part of the problem here is we all seem to have a different idea of what constitutes a troll. Let's not go into that again, but in my mind, as i've said, it's someone spamming the boards with offensive remarks or deliberately trying to be a nuisance. I don't think we have that problem here though.

I do agree that banning users is too extreme and ultimately futile. It also sends the wrong message if the person is a genuine victim of such reprisals, given that the timeout system is invisible to normal users. I would much prefer something a long the lines of the Vote Up/Down system the tech forums like UnityAnswers have. That way the forums can be governed by everyone (well, that particular part at least, you still need mods for housekeeping), with no-one really being able to censor something just because they don't like it. But given that this is a discussion forum rather than a Q&A it probably wouldn't really work, but really we already have that function: just don't reply to the topic as Matti said and it will sink to the bottom of the pile.

Another alternative would be to have the troll flag (call it something else, please), but rather than hiding their posts, just limit the number of posts they can make in, for example, a week. That way, they're not being censored and have the opportunity to show that they are willing to behave better in future. If you want to go a step further, make the troll flag visible to all users as a form of further punishment.

But, like I said, I don't think we really have a problem here. Threads that get really out of hand can always be locked anyway.

[LimpingFish]

Banning was never seriously suggested as a solution for any alleged troll (that I am aware of). The moderators here have always been far more sensible than regular internet rule dictates, which is why we are usually such an open and easy-going community. Creating voting systems and flags could lead to more divisive behavior, as such systems could be used to settle old scores ("Man, I hate this guy! I'm voting his ass down!"). We are usually responsible enough to negate the need for a blanket form of policing anyway, and it hasn't hurt us thus far.

The fact that I liked Darth's suggestion of basically implementing an "/ignore" system, is that such a system has worked on IRC (for me anyway) and seems like a diplomatic way to deal with these situations.

Regardless, any person who finds themselves (unwittingly or otherwise) on the receiving end of some negative feeling will always get the same advise from me: take a time out, consider the situation, come back and try again. Don't try to post yourself out of the hole you've found yourself in.

For the sake of argument, am I calling for Icey to be banned? No. Do I think he's rubbed a number of people the wrong way? Yes.

Over the course of this thread, I've come to agree with the definition of a troll as somebody who craves attention, regardless of cost. By constantly ignoring peoples reactions to his continued posting, I think Icey has met that criteria.

[Calin Leafshade]

I also find the moderation policy here to be much better than is usually expected of internet fora.

I mean you guys even had a thread about *religion* and no one got banned.

*reglion*

[monkey0506]

"reglion" you say? Is that like a lion who lives in your registry to ward off malicious registry predators (viruses, ignorant n00bs, etc.)? It sounds..AWESOME. I think I'll call mine Aslan.

[/troll]

[Darth Mandarb]

My original code implemented a "block" feature where-by you could select the member to block and then select the level of block; PMs, Posts, or ALL.

The problem with this type of block feature is that if User A can't see the troll's posts, but is still active in the thread the Troll is trolling in, the troll might be making comments on User A that he can't see.  But other people can.  And if User B (who User A doesn't have blocked) quotes the troll on a post that might (or might not) say something bad about User A ... well it can REALLY escalate then because now User A really strongly feels the need to defend himself against it (in a perfect world User A would simply laugh it off and say, "yup, that's why I have him blocked" but it's not a perfect world and User A would respond, thus the trolling continues)

With the troll-flag that isn't possible because nobody ('cept admins) would see the posts.

Another problem with that method is that not everybody would block the troll and those that don't have it blocked would still feed it.  If there's even one person feeding a troll it'll stick around and continue trolling.  (This is, of course, based on my version of what constitutes a troll/trolling)

Now the important thing about the troll-flag (that might have been overlooked) is it's date specific.  Only posts AFTER the date the flag is set will not be visible.  Posts that existed prior to the flag-date don't disappear (as this would tip the troll off!).

You did kind of give me an idea though ... a "block" feature could be put in place and if more than a certain percentage of the active users have a person blocked it would auto-trigger the troll-flag.  Hmmm ... that is an intriguing idea and I'm going to think on it a bit (I'm sure there are set-backs to it that I haven't thought of but it sort of makes it a 'consensus' thing like the vote up/down but isn't visible to the users which could lead to disharmony as LimpingFish mentioned).

I do like the idea of limiting their posting but I'm not sure how effective it'd be in the long-run.  I mean, in theory, if you stop a troll from being able to post more than 2 times an hour it would cut down on them trolling a specific thread because the part they wanted to troll might be "left behind" by the time they can finally post again ... but then again it might lead to them doing it anyway thus digging up a part of the discussion/debate that has been put to rest already.

In the end the best thing (and only thing) to do to make a troll go away is to ignore it.  But most people are, seemingly, incapable of doing that.  It's almost as bad of a compulsion as trolling in the first place!  With the troll-flag they are granted the power of serenity to not take the bait and feed the troll

[TomatoesInTheHead]

"reglion" you say? Is that like a lion who lives in your registry to ward off malicious registry predators (viruses, ignorant n00bs, etc.)? It sounds..AWESOME. I think I'll call mine Aslan.

[/troll]

I wanted to say something similar, but then, since I'm not a native speaker, I wanted to make sure it's not actually a pun with some word or meme I don't know, and found this. Now I'm not interested anymore in Calin's reglions



Darth, I think I see another issue with your troll-flag-system that was not mentioned yet:
What if the troll has/makes a second account (I'm sure a good number of the truly malicious trolls even uses second accounts to reply to their own posts), he'll be soon aware of what's going on and start the whole make-new-accounts-and-start-massive-trolling/spamming-and-complaining-about-the-censorship thing that often comes with banning, so this advantage over banning may actually not be 100% effective. Have you considered this, or maybe observed that it's not a problem?

[Scarab]

Darth, I think I see another issue with your troll-flag-system that was not mentioned yet:
What if the troll has/makes a second account (I'm sure a good number of the truly malicious trolls even uses second accounts to reply to their own posts), he'll be soon aware of what's going on and start the whole make-new-accounts-and-start-massive-trolling/spamming-and-complaining-about-the-censorship thing that often comes with banning, so this advantage over banning may actually not be 100% effective. Have you considered this, or maybe observed that it's not a problem?

Well the alternative is a ban, in which case they will make a new account straight away (if they are compelled to).

In the end the best thing (and only thing) to do to make a troll go away is to ignore it. But most people are, seemingly, incapable of doing that. It's almost as bad of a compulsion as trolling in the first place!  With the troll-flag they are granted the power of serenity to not take the bait and feed the troll

This is a sad truth. 80% of the active community could be restraining themselves, and there would still be enough posters to pander to the troll's hunger for attention.

This is why I support the idea of the troll flag.

[Dualnames]

I also find the moderation policy here to be much better than is usually expected of internet fora.

I mean you guys even had a thread about *religion* and no one got banned.

*reglion*

LOL. The best part is that there have been like 4-5 or so topics with over 200 answers. Usually after those the community changes eras. Example most newbies that frequent the forums came on August 2009, like you and icey (no comparison made).

And guess when was the last BIG religion topic.

I think everyone should be banned, cause that's what makes a good forum.

[SSH]

I think that any thread that gets over, say, 128 replies was probably intended to be a troll, and the #129th reply is probably an even bigger troll....

[Phemar]

I think we should let this thread die...

[Darth Mandarb]

** DARTH TURNS THE KEY **