Paranormal events? Have you had yourself any?

[Nikolas]

ok, if you want to explain to us what it is we see... I'm pretty willing to believe it... 

[esper]

http://www.theespers.org/artmain.html

Here. Click "paranormal" and then select "Introduction to the Supernatural: Planar Theorem," (which is toward the bottom) or any of the other articles if you so choose, but "Planar Theorem" is the best explanation I can muster as to the existance of the supernatural.

I have had many experiences, but I do not feel free to discuss them here. I'm not sure if any of you listen to me now, but after I told you the extent of my experiences no one would probably ever take me seriously again. If you look around enough on www.theespers.org, you will find about 3% of my total experiences listed, and even that should be enough to make people think I need to go to an insane asylum. However, 50% of my experiences have been in the presence of many other people, and on several occasions at least 20-30 people have experienced activity with me.Ã,  The worst "funk" I ever had was in the presence of an entire college dormitory, and was enough to send 50 strapping lads screaming out of the building or to a corner to cry.

However, just like everyone else thinks of themselves, I could probably lay down the arguments that would make everyone believe in what I call "funk." I could probably also lay down the law on the subject of God, however, arguments on forums and in chats are often worthless, as no one listens regardless of the quality of the argument.

What I will say is this: If God is real, then He hates every religion on earth vehemently. If the paranormal is real, it is proof of God. If you believe in God, but you do not believe in the paranormal, you might as well shove your Bible up your ass, because that's where it will do the most good. If you base your religion on the Bible, like most mainstream Christian religions do, and you stray from even one word of it or let men or "priests" or "elders" or "pastors" tell you what it says without investigating it yourself, you might as well take a fat dump on it, because that is all it is worth. If you believe in religion but you can only successfully argue your religion by telling other people that their arguments are stupid or conflict with Biblical teachings, you are a friggin' nutter and need to be commited to an asylum.

That's my bit...

EDIT: Also, a few of you might want to go to the website listed above, click "Paranormal" and then select "Old Hag Syndrome." It seems quite a few of you are subject to it...

[st_gobulis]

Well, I once had a particularly horrifying paranormal experience. I woke up as usual on a lovely morning. I went to the loo to answer, er, nature's long call. I sat down on the comode, I lit a fag and proceeded to open up a newspaper. Anyway, after about 15 minutes of, um, doing my job, I got up and was about to flush, when suddenly I noticed: There was NOTHING in the comode! GOD HAD FLUSHED FOR ME!! That experience has truly changed my life. I now devotedly worship God.

*turns sarcasm-neurone off*

[Krysis]

I never believed in aliens, devils, gods and Santa Claus. And I've never seen a proof i'm wrong. It's all a bunch of lies and simple mistakes. The only thing I'd say was paranormal in my life was when I wake up in the middle in the night - the same time my brother had a car accident. I didn't have a clue about it but I couldn't sleep for hours. Maybe it was just a coincidence.

Oh and thinking bout wierd - I remember one night in my grandma's guest room in her old silent house. I got under the blanket and fell asleep... the morning I woke and under me the bed was like I never even used it. The blanket under me and the sheets perfectly folded aside...  The wierd part is same thing happened to my dad long time ago in the same room.  :o

Don't know... Maybe I was sleepwalking or something. Or maybe something fixes the bed and takes care of the room from time to time waiting for my great great grandfather to return from the war. Who knows.

[Nacho]

Something like that happened to me just this morning!

I don't know if it actually happened or if I was just dreaming, but I could swear that something was putting pressure on the top left corner of my pillow.Ã,  I thought to myself "someone is there! I'll look really fast and see who!" but I couldn't move my head.Ã,  I didn't feel scared or threatened, though, and went back to sleep or to another dream, so I think it may have just been a realistic dream.

Haha... That happened to me and Lorena in that exact place, your bed.

Of course, it was your cat.

[RickJ]

The friction between between religion and scienc has always been one of my pet peevs.   Science concers itself exclussively with the physical world, the objective observation of how it works, and the reduction of those observations to a mathimatical or similarily concise description devoid of emotional, cutural, or other immaterial considerations.   Religion concerns itself (or ought to) with the spiritual well being of the individuals who practice it, by providing a philosophical and ethical foundation upon which practicioners can build their lives. 

I for one don't/can't see what one has to do wtih the other, except that some religious believers do not have faith in their own beliefs and so require proof.     

Given the long and colorful history in which time after time after time science, when challenged by religious beilefs, has prevailed, you would think that religious people and institutions would realize the futility of it and just quit.

Father George Coyne, a Catholic priest and Vatican astronmer has this to say about ID:

I would essentially like to share with you two convictions in this presentation: (1) that the Intelligent Design (ID) movement, while evoking a God of power and might, a designer God, actually belittles God, makes her/him too small and paltry; (2) that our scientific understanding of the universe, untainted by religious considerations, provides for those who believe in God a marvelous opportunity to reflect upon their beliefs. Please note carefully that I distinguish, and will continue to do so in this presentation, that science and religion are totally separate human pursuits. Science is completely neutral with respect to theistic or atheistic implications which may be drawn from scientific results.

I saw a couple of his lectures on TV and thought they were very interesting.   He has some really refreshing and inspirational views about this topic.  I did a google on his name and found some quotations and videos.

[Squinky]

Hi Rick. I respectfully would like to argue against your points. Here goes:

I for one don't/can't see what one has to do wtih the other, except that some religious believers do not have faith in their own beliefs and so require proof.   

While this is true, many times science is used to disprove a persons spiritual beliefs. So, it works both ways, eh?

Given the long and colorful history in which time after time after time science, when challenged by religious beilefs, has prevailed, you would think that religious people and institutions would realize the futility of it and just quit.

While I have nothing to truthfully rebuke this specific example, I'll point out some flaws in science.

Basically, when people tell me that religions or a specific religious event didn't happen or yadda yadda because of some scientific finding I always think of this:

Years ago, science told us that eating lots of carbs was good for us, now they say carbs are bad. They are currently letting people go from prisons because new dna science disproves the old science, that apparently was good enough to lock people up before.... 

Basically, sceince is a learning process, and while I love it and wouldn't kick it out of bed for eating crackers, I feel that in ten years we wil have completely different things told to us by science.

So, can I base my decisions on my belief on scientific findings? Certainly, but in doing so I must remember that Science has its flaws too. It isn't the trump card in this debate.

I also feel that no human endevour, be it scientific research or religious research, is without influences. Many Scientific findings are tainted by what the person wants to achieve, even though aren't supposed to be.

[Akumayo]

I have experiences that cannot be properly explained all the time.  Some of them really scare me, and some don't.  In fact, some are very comforting, lulling me into a state of conscience where I don't feel real anymore...

My explanation?  Meta-Physics.  Our five senses are just the ones we experience most often, we have more, and those five can get stronger.  The best way I've found to distinguish the 'real' paranormal experiences from the 'fake' ones, is to think about what was going through my head right before the experience.  Like, if I hear a voice in my head, but just a few seconds before that, I was THINKING about ghosts or something, then I dismiss the voice as my imagination.  However, if I'm on the computer doing something, adn I'm very concentrated, and I hear a voice, I listen to it, because I know I've begun to pick up a meta-physical sound.  Usually whatever is said is too quiet to hear, or sounds like an ordinary conversation that I'm not a part of... almost like I'm an eavesdropper.
Sometimes I'll have a song playing in my head, and certain words will seperate themselves and paste in my mind.  If I haven't been thinking about this happening, then the message usually continues to pull out.  I once got:
"(In) 45 days, (your) life will change"
*Words in parenthases are words that became part of the message, but weren't in the song.
I've also gotten some incoherant messages, but those happen after I'm thinking about the occurances.
I once got a message out of my ears ringing.  I was lying down, (freshly, mind you, not tired yet) and my ears began to ring.  My arm was over my ear, so I moved it, and the ringing stopped.  That made me feel empty, so I put my arm back on top of my ear, and the ringing continued.  In my mind's eye, the sound became this cosmic dust looking white thing that ran through my head, and words would peel off of it, and paste themselves.  The final message:
"(undisclosed name) thinks of you always"
*The undisclosed name was a person a once knew, and seem to dream about a lot now that they're gone.  I'm not releasing their name, because it might make the dreams end, and I'd rather that not happen, because I enjoy the person's company in them.  (The person isn't dead, btw)

Anyhow, that concludes a breif glimpse into SOME of my experiences.  Meta-Physics is the best answer still I think.

-Regards, Akumayo

[RickJ]

Hey Squinky,

I think our individual take on this stuff is not very different.  When you say the following two examples come to mind.   

While this is true, many times science is used to disprove a persons spiritual beliefs. So, it works both ways, eh?

The first example that came to mind, and likely what you were thinking also. would be like some scientist fellow saying "Well, there was this big bang thing and that's what created the universe, etc etc, so that proves that God doesn't exist yadayadade...".   In this instance I would agree that this is bullshit because spirtual beliefs such as the existance of God is supposed to be something that is neither proveable nor disproveable;  Belief in the existance of God requires faith .  As I said earlier the provence of science is the material universe, it's objective observation, and description in mathematicaly concise terms. 

The second example that comes to mind is the head/prominent Saudi cleric who believed that the world was flat.  He was finally disuaded from this notion when one of the Saudi princes told him that he went up in the space shuttle and saw that it was in fact spherical.  In this case the shape of the earth has very little to do with spirutality except that the ancient Greek view of things used to be around for quite a while and was apparently incorporated in to Islam to bolster it's claim to legitmacy.   The Catholic church did the same thing with Galeio and "the earth is the center of the universe" thing.   These are the cases to which I refer when I muse about people knowing when to quit.   

Years ago, science told us that eating lots of carbs was good for us, now they say carbs are bad. They are currently letting people go from prisons because new dna science disproves the old science, that apparently was good enough to lock people up before....

You put your finger on excatly how the friction between science and religion occur.   Religious instutions or prominent leaders incorporate accepted scientific facts into their belief system to bolster it's legitmacy.  For example it is extremely comforting for me to contemplate the similarities between Genisis and the Big Bank Theory.  Now suppose the pope or some other influential religious leader went around preaching about how these similarities are proof that the Bible is true.  Now suppose that this notion gains popularity and over the next 500 years or so becomes part of Christian dogma.    What do you suppose happens when a new scientific theory emerges that says the Big Bang wasn't the beginning after all? 

The problem is that religious dogma is absolute and not supposed to change or be challenged.  It's supposed to be God's word after all.  I suppose that's why it's called dogma .  However, as you point out, scienctific theories are constantly challenged and are subject to change all the time.  If you can prove an accepted theory wrong you will become rich and famous, so there are a lot of people out there taking shots all the time.   The one thing you can be certain about a Scientific Theory is that over time it will change, sometimes completly disproven but most often refined, improved, evolved, or shown to be incomplete.   

Father Coyne's lectur titled "When the Sacred Cows of Science and Religion Meet" has a lot of sensible things to say about this.

So, can I base my decisions on my belief on scientific findings? Certainly, but in doing so I must remember that Science has its flaws too. It isn't the trump card in this debate.

I also feel that no human endevour, be it scientific research or religious research, is without influences. Many Scientific findings are tainted by what the person wants to achieve, even though aren't supposed to be.

I agree with these two statements whole heartedly.

I'll close by saying that with regard to Science and Religion, one shouldn't have anything to do with the other.   If someone claimed that they have scientifically proven or disproven the existance of God I would be suspuicious of their motives and skeptical of their methods and results.   I am equally suspicious of religious beliefs that stray from the realm of spirutaulity and philosphy into the physical or material world.   I don't think God cares what kind of car I drive or what my favorite flavor of ice cream is. 

My advice:  If your religious leader tells you that God wants you to cut off your balls and kill yourself so he can pickup up in his spaceship that's sailing along in the tal of a comet, you might want to consider going to anohter church.

Don't laugh, it actually happened, ... in California of course, where anything can happen..

[Akumayo]

As an afterthought, I should probably add that several of my friends accuse me of having Paranoia Schizophrenia.  I disagree.

[RickJ]

As an afterthought, I should probably add that several of my friends accuse me of having Paranoia Schizophrenia.  I disagree.

They're all out to get you eh!!    :

[Akumayo]

-grumble-

I'm just accused!!!  I can't really have it, because I'm not paranoid, I just exhibit SOME side-effects of it, and my friends find that to be grounds to say that I actually HAVE it.

They're wrong... they have to be!!! 

[m0ds]

Interesting metaphysics stuff! So did your life change drastically after 45 days? Or did you work it out too late? And were you stoned at the time, because I hear sweet, sweet angelic singing when i'm stoned and listen to white noise - its trippy If you've got paranoia, I've got dementia. But hey - I can live with that

I've also come to the conclusion that we must be gods, that we will live forever in the time period we live in now, and that through hundreds & hundreds of deaths we'll be able to communicate with each other, somehow. Even if we can't, we can still take a new route every life & be with whoever we want to be for however long we want it. If you die anytime soon, please can you haunt me so I can prove this theory correct!

That may sound WHACK but it poses another question. If you're not religious, what is it you're beleiving in? What is death to you?

oh and PLUG! FoY demo in like, a few days time

[Akumayo]

The 45 days... aren't up yet.  Ironically enough though, once I counted out the days on the calendar the day after I.. err... understood, the message, and the date of the change is supposed to be April 20.  As it turns out, this is Hitler's birthday 

I don't think that song would play in my head, on the exact night 45 days from Hitler's birthday, just becuase I had seen when his birthday was, and decided that it would be a good day for my life to change.  Then again, it may have nothing to do with it at all.  I certainly don't FEEL like it means anything, so it probably doesn't.

About us being gods, do you mean you and I, or everyone?   

(I haven't ever been stoned...)

[Hammerite]

Something like that happened to me just this morning!

I don't know if it actually happened or if I was just dreaming, but I could swear that something was putting pressure on the top left corner of my pillow.Ã,  I thought to myself "someone is there! I'll look really fast and see who!" but I couldn't move my head.Ã,  I didn't feel scared or threatened, though, and went back to sleep or to another dream, so I think it may have just been a realistic dream.

now we know whats going to happen in ben jordan 6.
ben: i feel something in my bed...
ben checks
ben: alice! what are you doing?

but seriously i have had KIND OF weird encounters, on my paper round i ALWAYS, when passing a house hear weird beeping noises in a pattern at the exact point i step on the driveway and also, if i am awake at like four in the morning and ive had no sleep in a number of hours i hear moderately loud drumming and i get a bit paranoid and twitchy.

[m0ds]

Glacies, everyone If we're "made in the image of God" then that to me means we pretty much bloody are him And effectively we are, or were. We're all part of the same primordial sperm, so to speak! Well, thats just my crazy thoughts anyway, hehehehe.

I realised my earlier comments could be dangerous, if this thread ever gets lost in a cave and is discovered thousands of years later, incomplete - after complete human anihiliation. It could breed a species of terrorists! :O But seriously...well, slightly seriously - I don't know how to describe it, I guess its kind of like an "anti-climax" - where you think something is this great something but really it turns out to be the complete opposite. In this case, that great something is currently a really shit something - tis death - it has so many "bad" things about it, it's 95% sooo painful to get there and 99% of us probably wouldn't consider it. Which must mean it's the best thing ever in hiding! Ok, yeah yeah maybe it is just shit.

Anyway, this is soooo off topic! Back to point - there is a strange presence following me and my girlfriend - only thing is, it's positive energy - so I'm loving it! Well, that is until it forms the shape of a hiddeous ghost and slimes me!



Who's this thread gonna call?

:p

[Akumayo]

GHOST BUSTERS!!!

[CaptainBinky]

I'm a bit of a skeptic about these kinds of things. I think Geoffkahn pretty much nailed it back on page 1...

You have to keep in mind that a lot of our perception is "in our head." Just like when you look through a glass window, you see both beyond the window and also a reflection back at you. Just like this, we perceive outside of us, but at the same time we get see a "reflection" back into our minds. Something like that.

At the end of the day, given how easy it is to fool our brains into seeing something which isn't there (Stereograms, holograms etc), I don't see how we can make any assuptions about bizarre phenomenoms which we occassionally glimpse other than "that was weird". Besides, we're not really "seeing" anything anyway. We've just got a picture in our heads that our brain has constructed using some sense organs. Who knows what goes on between capturing a frame with our eyes and what we perceive.

[Peder 🚀]

I once (when I was in Wales with my GF where she lives) was in a car with my GF, her sister, and her sisters boyfriend. and we drove at night on a road where there was no other cars at that moment.
and, we was talking about ghosts...

I said I diddent believe in them, cause I had no reason to believe in them , since I never seen one.

and as we was talking suddently we all saw something white (quite bright actually) appear in the middle of the road and in a fast speed crossed the road and went into the bushes... the thing is it couldent been an animal, cause it went straight.

I got no explination for it, if it was a ghost I dont know. But it was for sure "unreal".

[Scorpio_Phoenix]

I havent had anything happen....but someone in my family has...and when my aunt told us, we were all really freaked out because it is soo weird.

My aunt moved into this house with my cousins who were really young at the time. My aunt had been told that an old woman had died in the house before they moved in, but she didnt think much about it....

A few weeks later my uncle was babysitting my cousins and they were in bed and he was downstairs and he said he heard a weird noise and the cat came running down the stairs looking totally freaked out (eyes wide open, hissing at everything) so he ran upstairs to see if my cousins were ok and they were both fast asleep!.

He told my aunt about it when she got home and then a while later my cousin who was like 4 at the time woke up screaming and crying so my aun ran upstairs and into her room and she kept saying there was an old woman sitting at the bottom of her bed.

Now how much of a coincidence is that??? My cousin was 4 and had no idea about the woman who had died there!!!

Still freaks me out talking about it lol.