Politically incorrect or tastless?

[Babar]

Explain how both Muslims and Christians can both have two different one true Gods.

This might help.

I agree with the sheer logic of Tiki's post. I'd also like to add that according to Islam, (and I might be paraphrasing here) "anyone who believes in God, the last day, and does good, will have their reward with God, and have nothing to fear."

[/theology]

[Nikolas]

How cute! Another thread about religion.

I personally believe that politics have nothing to do with God(s)! What has Bush got to do with all of this? I refuse to even consider it.

On the matter of priests (although I didn't know it was official), I have to agree about priests. I mean they are the professors that teach us the way to heaven. It makes sense.

PS. Greek Orthodox church and their priests suck big time. Corruption everywhere! (almost). IF I don't like religion (and I believe in God, somehow), it is because of the belief system in Greece and their priests, most of which are gay,rich-bitches,dogmatic full-time. OF course this is an excaguration but you get the pictrure. And I'm sure that everyone who has an idea for Greece will agree with me.

[Paper Carnival]

I agree with that, that's why I don't consider myself an Orthodox. However, I agree with most of the teachings of the church. And I don't think it's nice to accuse God for something people are doing. If you remember, Jesus was against the religious leaders of his age who were no much different than the ones today.

[rharpe]

Sorry for sabotaging this thread and bringing religion into the mix. To me, separation between Church and State will never happen. I can't talk politics unless God is mentioned as well. It's a part of my upbringing, and it is a part of me. I have a subtle Catholic faith which I know very little about, (but would like to know more.)

I don't know very much about the Greek Orthodox. But there is one thing I know for sure... there is a lot of corruption, no matter where you go. And its not limited to any certain denominations either. Every church has a bit of corruption... just some more than others.

Oh and when the temple curtain was torn: This did NOT signify the removal of division between God and man... it signified the start of the New Testament. (The old ways of the Jews, their temple and the curtain was destroyed to signify Christ Himself changed the old ways to the new way... The New Testament.) The only thing that didn't change was the 10 commandments... which were written in stone directly by God. (Usually if it's written in stone, by God Himself, it doesn't change.) 

[SSH]

Oh and when the temple curtain was torn: This did NOT signify the removal of division between God and man... it signified the start of the New Testament. (The old ways of the Jews, their temple and the curtain was destroyed to signify Christ Himself changed the old ways to the new way... The New Testament.) The only thing that didn't change was the 10 commandments... which were written in stone directly by God. (Usually if it's written in stone, by God Himself, it doesn't change.) 

That may be Catholic theology, but I love a good bit of Wesley:

http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh282.sht

[Redwall]

I have a subtle Catholic faith

Say what now?

[Tiki]

rharpe - If priests can forgive sins, and do all of those wonderful things.. I don't see where Jesus or the Holy Spirit come in any more.  I don't mean to trample on the Catholic faith.. but popes, bishops, priests.. they are absolutely not a necessity for getting to heaven.

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Priests, bishops, etc all have a duty and should be respected.  But they have no more authority in letting people to heaven than any other man.

[lo_res_man]

I consider myself a christian, but belong to no denoomination, I find denominations, an instatustion built by the human need to put  people in little wee  boxes and say anyone outside of the box iis the devil incarnate, to be just that, human instatutions, I think God made us and loves and probebly crys every time he sees how fucked up we have made everything, but rejoices at the little bits of  sub-creationand beuty we sometimes create. I will never claim to  have the answers, I am probebly more fuckesd up then most, but this  ramble is my Guess.
But that doesn't mean I think instatutions  and rituals are unimportent. Heck No! rituals are also  part of human nature and sshould be charished as such. to say we shoudn't doo somethiing beacause its irational is silly cuz, we humans ARE irrational.
keeo up the forum

lo_res_man

[shitar]

Organized religion is there to keep you as far away from God as possible. It's just a business. BTW what does all this have to do with the picture? lol

[rharpe]

rharpe - If priests can forgive sins, and do all of those wonderful things.. I don't see where Jesus or the Holy Spirit come in any more.  I don't mean to trample on the Catholic faith.. but popes, bishops, priests.. they are absolutely not a necessity for getting to heaven.

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Priests, bishops, etc all have a duty and should be respected.  But they have no more authority in letting people to heaven than any other man.

Our Lord Jesus Christ came to this earth to show us how His Heavenly Father wanted us to worship Him. The priests, bishops, and pope, play key roles in doing God's will. Jesus is with us in spirit but not physically here to guide us to His Father. Christ instituted Holy Orders within the Catholic Church so that man is given the power to forgive sins. Yes, it's a very powerful attribute to have. We do not have this power to forgive our sins...that would make no sense. For example: I kill someone...look up to the heavens and say, "Oh, I'm forgiven...because I can forgive myself." No, no, no! A priest can't even do this. He must go to confession and confess his sins to another priest. That's the way Christ made the sacrament.

Here is a link regarding the Catholic Church... and I'd be considered a "Traditionalist."

OK... so I'm not the subtle.

[Nikolas]

Our Lord Jesus Christ came to this earth to show us how His Heavenly Father wanted us to worship Him.

1,2...8 Capital letters in a sentence.

Sorry had to mention that. Rharpe I think you really tried to do this!

[/joke]

I'm pretty sure that if I do something bad I will find a way myself to redeem and forgive myself. I'm not sure that I need guidance. And anyway there are shrinks that can help me if things are really bad.

I find that religion in the first place was created by the need of human beings to explain some things, and furthermore for the need of communities to have guidance.

An example: In Orthodox we worship the Easter very much. And 40 days before we can't eat meat, eggs, dairy products. Which is done because Christ did it. And afterwards when Jesus comes back from the dead we celebrate by eating as much dairy and animal produacts as we can. Well I think that there is another explanation for this. Easter takes place around mid-Spring. The time where the animals reproduce and give brith to their babys. If we eat a lot of animals around then, the floc will die. If we drink milk/eat cheese the babys will not have what to eat and again the flok will die. The same applies for the eggs. Well, after 40 days the floks and the animals have multiplied so much that if we don't eat the older animals and start drinking again milk/cheese/eggs the flok will starve.

The same applies for most "rules". There happens to be a practical reason for that. Now, I'm willing to believe that Christ was an amazingly clever Man/Son of God, but this is much of a coincidence for me to think that everything is done for religious reasons.

Religion is here to help us live a better life (hopefully). When religion happens to be outdated and you have so many children born because of the lack of counterbirth practice (condoms), well then there is where things go bad...

Priest are here to help us. They are here to teach us. And some of them are great! Saints, or whatever else one can call them. But I believe that one can also be selftaught! Difficult but not imposible.

[rharpe]

It's interesting to see some of your posts... and how you see religion. To me religion is not just a thing that is off to the side that you think about once in a great while. It is something that apply to my daily life. Religion, (in my definition,) is the communication between God and man. As a Catholic, I get up in the morning and offer my day to God... (Throughout the day I try to think about God... but this is very difficult...) when I get home from work I say my daily Rossary with the whole family... before my daughter goes to sleep, I kneel down with her and my wife and we say our night prayers together. This is the bare minimum a Catholic should do. I should go to Mass in the morning, but I have a lazy streak in me. I do go to Mass every Sunday though. (Again, the bare minimum.) During days of fast and abstinance, I eat very tiny small snacks and avoid any meat products. Fridays, I eat fish, eggs, or bread, instead of meat. I try to go to confession at least once every 3 weeks... but I'm not always successful.

You all may feel my life is so hard... but it isn't. This is the bare minimum a Catholic should do...(yes, I know... I should do more than that...working on it.)

[Helm]

You know what's going to be awesome? When your daughter, 15 or 16, around that time, brings a godless heathen with long hair and a motorhead patch on the back of his leather jacket and wearing a Godflesh t-shirt, home. She introduces him as her boyfriend, coupled with a few well placed 'I like him because he reminds me of you, dad' whenever you try to say something.

"What's up, god-man? Been to church lately?"

[rharpe]

You know what's going to be awesome? When your daughter, 15 or 16, around that time, brings a godless heathen with long hair and a motorhead patch on the back of his leather jacket and wearing a Godflesh t-shirt, home. She introduces him as her boyfriend, coupled with a few well placed 'I like him because he reminds me of you, dad' whenever you try to say something.

"What's up, god-man? Been to church lately?"

Oh yes, I'm looking forward to that!

[Tiki]

Our Lord Jesus Christ came to this earth to show us how His Heavenly Father wanted us to worship Him. The priests, bishops, and pope, play key roles in doing God's will. Jesus is with us in spirit but not physically here to guide us to His Father. Christ instituted Holy Orders within the Catholic Church so that man is given the power to forgive sins. Yes, it's a very powerful attribute to have. We do not have this power to forgive our sins...that would make no sense. For example: I kill someone...look up to the heavens and say, "Oh, I'm forgiven...because I can forgive myself." No, no, no! A priest can't even do this. He must go to confession and confess his sins to another priest. That's the way Christ made the sacrament.

Here is a link regarding the Catholic Church... and I'd be considered a "Traditionalist."

Just to clarify, let me state that I already know more than enough about the Catholic faith - you must have misunderstood me.

To be frank, I don't believe you when you say Jesus calls on priests to forgive other men.  A sinner can not forgive another man, because priests are just as sinful as the ones they are supposedly cleansing. 
"all have fallen short of the glory of God" ...

We're forgiven whether we accept it or not.. it is the acceptance of the forgiveness that saves us.

if priests can't save themselves how can they save others?  It's like, can you save a drowning person when you are yourself drowning?

Also,

"Jesus is with us in spirit but not physically here to guide us to His Father."

Do you not believe in the Holy Spirit as a separate entity of the Trinity?

Ephesians 1:13-14, "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory."

Ephesians 2:8-10, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

Salvation is a result of no one's works but Christ's... I don't care how big their hat is.

I suggest you read the parable about how are you to get a speck out of your neighbor's eye when you have a plank in your own eye.

[m0ds]

GOD TOLD ME TO INVADE IRAQ

I loved that one.

[rharpe]

let me state that I already know more than enough about the Catholic faith

Your comments regarding the Catholic faith come out more like protestantism. Sorry, that's the way I read into your replies.

if priests can't save themselves how can they save others?  It's like, can you save a drowning person when you are yourself drowning?

Priests are given special graces and powers by the Catholic Church that Christ founded.

Do you not believe in the Holy Spirit as a separate entity of the Trinity?

Yes, I believe in the Holy Trinity, (the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.)

I suggest you read the parable about how are you to get a speck out of your neighbor's eye when you have a plank in your own eye.

I will...

[Nikolas]

GOD TOLD ME TO INVADE IRAQ

I loved that one.

This is a well known fact, mOds, didn't you know?

[Paper Carnival]

GOD TOLD ME TO INVADE IRAQ

I loved that one.

This is a well known fact, mOds, didn't you know?

God told me to... x
God wants me to... x
God wants... x
God hates... x

These are the kind of sentences that tick me off. I've noticed people abusing it so bad that I barely managed to keep myself from being too judgmental on them. Especially when people read too much into things and take everything as a sign

A silly example: lets say that I want to go out but on my way out of the door I drop something on my shirt that leaves a stain. Therefore this is God's way to tell me that I shouldn't go out and I must stay home.

It might sound bizarre but I've faced people who think like this too many times so far. I mean come on, it's not what God wants you to do, it's what you think God wants you to do. I consider people who put themselves in a position where they are supposed to know what God wants them to do as very proudful (example: Jack Thompson and one of my ex girlfriends).

[DGMacphee]

A silly example: lets say that I want to go out but on my way out of the door I drop something on my shirt that leaves a stain. Therefore this is God's way to tell me that I shouldn't go out and I must stay home.

... or you could just be really clumsy.

But if you still think it was God's intention to force you to spill something over your shirt, send him a dry cleaning bill and see if he pays up.