Pope John Paul II dies

FrogMarch · Sun 03/04/2005 23:26:23

Quote from: SteveMcCrea on Sun 03/04/2005 23:08:00

the big news stories on the BBC web site about the pope's life are his election, his shooting, a plot to kill him, and his death.

So who shot the Pope? And who tried to kill him?

Helm · Sun 03/04/2005 23:26:58

Vatican't City hearse Vatican't City hearse (all you need is death death is all you need)

FrogMarch · Sun 03/04/2005 23:39:03

Hmm... Don't get me wrong, I wasn't exactly the Pope's biggest fan, but I think that song was a bit harsh.

Then again, maybe I'd prefer it if you put it on CD

SSH · Mon 04/04/2005 08:06:58

Quote from: SteveMcCrea on Sun 03/04/2005 23:08:00
But I don't believe as pope he's furthered humanity greatly.

For example, the big news stories on the BBC web site about the pope's life are his election, his shooting, a plot to kill him, and his death.

Or... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4406191.stm

Blade · Mon 04/04/2005 09:34:10

The man who shot the Pope was Ali Agca (not sure about the spelling).

If you want to know what has John Paul II done, look at the map of Europe. Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Lithuania, Lotva, Estonia, Ukraine and even Belarus owe to him because he was the one who really started to talk openly about freedom for this region.
I admit he wasn't on top of my thoughts too, but I respect him. And about him not abdicating - he was once adviced not to leave the church before his death because it could make the cardinals divide, some still following him.

Adamski · Mon 04/04/2005 12:31:56

Did anyone ever see the "Sex and the Holy City" documentry?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/3147672.stm

Las Naranjas · Mon 04/04/2005 12:35:13

Reading the reports you get the impression that the Vatican caused the economic collapse of communism, since that's what caused the disintegration of the eastern bloc, not visits after the inevitable was apparent.

Saying that he is responsible is like saying the newspaper reports about his death being imminent were the cause of it.

Death is a death, but hyperbole is just foolish.

SSH · Mon 04/04/2005 12:54:32

I respect the Pope for standing up for what he believed in, even though it was terribly unfashionable and condemned by many. On the other hand, I think that he was totally wrong on contraception and did a great deal of harm through that. I hope that the new pope sees things differently, but I think that it is unlikely.

Peter Thomas · Mon 04/04/2005 13:36:23

Quote from: Farlander gone fishing on Sun 03/04/2005 22:32:50
It makes me appreciate the life more, and lately, and I in a "weird" attitude of seeing how the nice things in life are just impossible without its negative counterpart.

Really? Because I've spent this time thinking how 'ordinary' and 'un-interesting' it all was. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the pope was ordinary/whatever, but his illness certainly was. It wasn't anything different to what happens to hundreds of other people around the world every day. Sad to say, it didn't give me any insight to life/death at all. He was just another man who died. A famous man, perhaps, but he still died, and it was hardly the sort of thing that would otherwise grab headlines. Without beind disrespectful, it boils down to this simple headline:

"OLD MAN DIES" - and I think the media was 100% totally wrong to put so much emphasis on his pain and suffering. Not that it would've made any difference if he'd retired earlier. They'd still be hounding him...

Kweepa · Mon 04/04/2005 15:16:42

Quote from: Blade on Mon 04/04/2005 09:34:10
If you want to know what has John Paul II done, look at the map of Europe. Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Lithuania, Lotva, Estonia, Ukraine and even Belarus owe to him

They said the same thing about Reagan when he died.

Afflict · Mon 04/04/2005 21:18:15

Well many great men and women have fallen. Lets just remember what he has done.
A great teacher for he was always teaching and those who paid attention had a glimpse of wisdom.
He never backed down from his believes. I for one hope they find another as worthy...

nihilyst · Tue 05/04/2005 20:33:33

John Paul II. told us to love, and not to hate. He knew that it is impossible for the human mankind to totally believe in and live love, because God is Love Absolute. But he didn't say: "Fuck all those people off, they don't believe me anyway." He consistently told us to love, to spread peace all over the world, for that we shouldn't forget it. And that is, what made him so unique, because he lived, what he said, until he died.

And the other things about homosexuality. I'm sure, that he didn't want to offend anyone about his feelings and affinities. Maybe he just saw into the future, saw, that the basis of Human Mankind and the World itself is the children, the youth. And he assumed, that, if two men are partners, there can't be any new life.

John Paul II. was also a Pope of the youth. And I doubt, that any other pope following will receive so much attention from the youth than he did.

God may bless him. It's probably good for him to have done it.

cheers
nihilyst

Goldmund · Fri 08/04/2005 19:57:04

Wow, you sure are meek for a nihilist! ;-)

Yeah, I was sad that night, when he wrote that little note and when he said "amen" and died.
I never felt angry at him for attacking homosexuality and contraception, for I don't believe that a watered-down church will survive; you have all this post-modern neo-paganism if you want to both go to heaven and fuck freely.

But...

Remember how I always tried to defend believers from teen atheist catho-bashers?
Well, this I decided to change.
Poland is in a very strange state the last week, traffic jams everywhere, strange initiatives ("Let's turn the lights off at 21:37 EVERYWHERE!") abound, hunts for those who don't take part in mourning (TV reporters asked my father and also a bartender in Italy why they came to work and then debated if they believe their reasons or not).......

I had respect for the Pope, but I don't have respect - and I'm afraid of - the masses.
Those stupid, easily manipulated groups of people, who march whenever somebody beats a drum.
So I tried to share some of my views on a Polish internet portal and I was immediately bashed.

Which lead me to invent this aphorism:
Mourning performed by Polish catholics is like a dog sitting by its bowl.
Everything looks fine and dignified, but don't try to look into their dish or they'll bite your head off.

InCreator · Fri 08/04/2005 21:50:42

QuoteI had respect for the Pope, but I don't have respect - and I'm afraid of - the masses.
Those stupid, easily manipulated groups of people, who march whenever somebody beats a drum.

Well said

But these masses has always existed and will be in future.
It's good that some of them followed the Pope and not some next Hitler-like madman? Well, if there's a flock, there has to be a sheperd.
(Interesting that few wires run together here, you described the masses just about the way church does - masses need someone to beat the drum - so-called sheperd)

And if it's a peaceful one, and accomplishes his task well, let us respect him.

Goldmund · Sat 09/04/2005 00:13:38

Yes, a good shepherd, that's right, but...

First of all, the shepherd is dead and they're not following his call at the moment, but the call of others/media.
I bet it's much harder to, say, abstain from pre-maritial sex than to march or light a candle.

Second of all, funny you should mention Hitler. Because that's all I have on my mind at the moment.
Observing this movement, general agitation around me makes me wonder if those people marching, singing songs or stopping at 21:37 in total silence would feel much difference if the call was to break Jewish' shops' windows or set fire to a bad man instead of a candle.

I live close to Jana Pawla II street. The whole damn several-kilometer long street is lined with candles. I saw two drunk hools, barely walking and singing incomprehensibly, stop and relight the candles which went out.

Does mass hysteria for goodness makes it less a malady? Maybe. I'm just feeling strange.