Sarging and the Art of the Pick-up

[Stupot]

A few days ago a mate of mine gave me a book he had just read and he couldn't stop talking about it.  In it, he said, are the 12 steps to being able to bed any woman you desire (or at least get her phone number).  When it comes to women, I am a self-confessed no-hoper, so I was intrigued by what he had to say.

The book.  The Game by Neil Strauss.

Strauss was once a fairly plain looking man.  A music journalist with almost Zero experience with the ladies.  Until he got involved with a society of Pick-up Artists and began joining them at seminars and workshops learning all the tips and tricks they had to offer.  He is now arguably the most succesful PUA in the world.

Some of the stuff in the book is rather morally dubious... for example it talks about using Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) on a woman to play with her mind, make her think she is attracted to you, etc.  I'm not quite sure I agree with that side of things, but there is certainly a lot of material in this book and in the wider community to get any no-hoper (or AFC - Average Frustrated Chump) like myself on the road to success.

I'm only about a quarter of the way through the book but I still had a go at trying out some of the tips when I went out on Saturday.  And, by gum I think it was working... I mean, granted, I didn't get laid, or kissed or even any phone numbers, but I actually approached some girls and made conversation, which is something I have always found difficult.

One of the techniques I tried was what the book refers to as "group theory"... the idea that it is best to go up to a group of 2 or more people rather than a lone girl.  Then you start chatting to the group not paying much attention to the girl... she will think you are interesting and want to be part of the conversation, that way you have her attention without having made any direct come-ons.  This wasn't really successful if I'm honest, but that is largely due to me being a shite conversationalist and not being able to hold the group's attention for long enough to have the desired effect.  Something I will be working on in the near future.

The second thing I tried, with slightly more success, is what the PUA communtiy refer to as the "neg".  Say something ever-so-slightly negative about the girl you are sarging.  Either to her face or better still, to the group, in front of her.  For example you might say 'ooh you've got lipstick on your teeth'  or ' hey, nice dress... I saw another chick wearing that a minute ago'... the line I tried was 'wow, you're really short' and carried on talking to her friend (to be fair she was tiny, but gorgeous).  Supposedly this has several effects.  For a start she's not used to it; all the other guys dish out the same stale compliments and they bore her... and on top of that she now feels the need to redeem herself despite whatever negative quality you pointed out.

The chick carried on chatting to me despite me calling her short so it seems it might have worked... but I won't pass judgment until I've tried it out some more...

This might sound really sad, and you all probably think I've fallen for some whackjob Self-help guru tosh.  And maybe I have... but if anything can give me the confidence to approach women in a bar or wherever it may be, then it must be doing something right.

Discuss!

[The Suitor]

I would try it if I weren't married, and I don't think it's complete crap. I'd say it would work, I mean if you think of it as a tourist scam (sort of the same thing, not really).

I think if you keep at something, like this even, its like an "art form" that you would eventually get good at. So yeah, I believe this this might have something to it... unless the girl read the book too, lol.

Otherwise, true or false, crap or not, it's still interesting.

[Eggie]

Isn't resorting to tricks found in books to get sex kind of acknowledging that you're a shitbag who doesn't really deserve any?

[Stupot]

Perhaps.
But I'm not in it for the long haul, and it's not even for sex.  If you'd ever seen me trying to talk to a hot girl you'd understand why I'd take any advice from any source.

[BarkingPup]

  Ummm.. I would be very, very cautious of such a book. It seems, from your examples, that some of it is pure psychology and yes, will work but the other stuff is a bit... questionable.

There really is no 'sure way' to 'pick-up' girls as every single one will be different. I, personally, would not like someone who made some sort of disparaging remark about me. I would really see it as an insult (especially the dress one). I do like your line (wow, you're short) as it is not attacking and merely stating a fact. Still, if someone felt self conscious about their height it would be a bad idea. If someone remarked that I had lipstick on my teeth and I did not... well, I would be quite irritated; which is another thing to keep in mind.

I do know that, psychologically, after an adrenaline filled activity feelings of attraction are more likely. In today's world you might find that a little hard to emulate besides going to a tourist area like Universal Studios where fear is the norm...

The 'group' thing is a good idea but not because of what the book seems to state. A girl is more likely to feel safe, less defensive, and more talkative in a group than alone. And if you start up a conversation the others can keep it going. Really, the only thing needed is interesting conversation that said female can participate in. I would not be interested in a conversation about cars even if my group-mates knew about them. It depends, again, on the female.

Then again, that is only my two cents. Being a girl I have doubts that my opinion is really valid...

[rharpe]

If anything, it will help build self esteem and communication skills. How can that be a bad thing? You could use this possibly for professional purposes as well.

Your goal shouldn't be to get laid, but noticed.

[Stupot]

Being a girl I have doubts that my opinion is really valid...

Au contraire.  In fact the one thing that would be really helpful is a female perspective... the PUA community consists of a bunch of men telling other men how to pick up women... nowhere, it seems, are any females asked for their opinion.  So please, if you have anything more to add, do add it.

[BarkingPup]

Eh, well I highly doubt I can add any more than I have already. My best advice would be to learn/practice conversation skills. For example, in Canada complaints about the weather is always a good conversation topic  : In the long run it depends on the girl. Sure, I'll bet there are a lot of underhanded ways to get 'laid' but for an actual mate it may take awhile. It does sound like the book might help with self esteem and confidence which is always good.... um... cannae think of anything else. Just try to think of good neutral conversation topics (no religion, politics, etcetera.) and you may end up in a deeper conversation with a girl.

For compliments (hey, look, I can add more!) it is best to be sparing. Compliments are awkward. No, really, they are. If you think that a girl has pretty hair then mention it. "Oh, hey, I like your hair." you may even add something like "how did you do that?" or something along those lines. Compliments about personal looks are like walking through sharp glass (unless the girl is drunk). You say "Your eyes are very pretty" and if the girl doesn't like her eyes she will bite your head off. Physical features are best discussed when you are alone with a girl and are going out or something.

However, I have never been on a date and some of my opinions are probably completely incorrect. Take them with a grain of salt, I suppose.

Hmmm... nope, can't think of anything else.

[Ponch]

Isn't resorting to tricks found in books to get sex kind of acknowledging that you're a shitbag who doesn't really deserve any?

If a girl has great cleavage and wears a top to show it off when she's out at a club, is that a "trick?"

I'm 36, still single and quite happy to remain so. The "trick" to successfully hitting it off with girls is the same as in any other endeavor. Practice. Get shot down a lot and eventually, you'll start figuring out what doesn't work and what does. The sooner in life you start learning how to avoid getting shot down too much, the better off you are.

Conversation is, in my experience, the key skill. Also helps if you're funny. Making a girl laugh goes a long way to opening doors. Be able to talk about as many topics as possible. You never know what interests a girl may have.

The most important thing is, if you're really interested in a girl, don't let it turn into a friendship. Friendships are, in my opinion, a cage you'll never escape from (if you're looking to be more than friends, I mean).

I've heard about this book, and some of my friends swear by it. To me, some of it sounds pretty useful. But some of it, like the "insult a girl to warm her heart" seems like it would only draw the crazy chicks. But they have their own charm, I suppose, so whatever works for you.

Personally, I've always been a talker and I've kept myself in good shape (and I still have all my hair, so I've got that going for me), so I've managed to do fine on my own over the years by learning from past mistakes and honing my "gift of gab."

My opinion on this? Stay outside the friendship zone, show confidence without being an ass, and stay just a little aloof. Women like mystery, and it pays off big if you're a bit of a riddle for her to solve.

Your mileage may vary, of course. But that's been my experience in things.

- Ponch

[Babar]

'wow, you're really short'

Wow...you're very silly.

So, how is everyone today? That Tales of Binkwood game seems great, right? What about So Blonde!? The Vampyre game seems to be generating a lot of controversy here, though. What you think?....

[Layabout]

Ahh, that book. I've read it. Quite a good read really. I'm not the only one who has read it. Many men have read it. So have many women. So keep in mind some of the so called 'tricks' may not work anymore.

I think a positive thing this book can give to sexually frustrated guys is a little thing called confidence. A little goes a long way. If you go up to a woman and believe in your mind you will never have any hope in hell of 'pulling' her, then there is no way in hell you will have that chance, because you are not confident in yourself.

I think there are 3 basic things you need to meet women. Number one is confidence. Number two is the ability to talk without shite coming out of your mouth, this includes talking about what she likes, and not talking about yourself most of the time. Also finding something you both like to talk about. Thats a good one. Number three is to dress well. You don't have to go all suit and tie, but at least dress reasonable. Although you can still 'pick-up' wearing 3 year old 'well-worn' converse shoes and get away with it.

Summing up, just feel good about yourself. The book is a great read, and it may give you tips, but don't use the terminology, don't get involved in that sleazy scene. Just be you, but a more confident and well dressed you.

[ThreeOhFour]

I've heard about the book and while I thought "Hmmm, that's interesting" it also seemed a little bit pointless.

It also seemed to me a rather large generalization - Ie, the "correct method" of going home with a young lady being a series of steps. It seems to me that all the girls I meet vary quite a lot, and while some might giggle at being told they are quite short, others I know would probably tell you to piss off. Girls are not machines with clearly labeled and numbered parts, nor do they all come with the same features and 12 month guarantee.

Oh, and unless you're just looking for a bit of shag action, some girl you meet in some joint just because she responded well to Comment #84 "Wow, your teeth are really small" is probably going to be a less satisfying relationship than finding someone who you can really have a good discussion with. Unless you both really like small teeth.

I basically agree with Ryan K, although I haven't read the book.

[MoodyBlues]

Well said, Ben.    Women are not machines that give you what you want if you pull all the right levers.  (Well, maybe a few are like that, but they're usually so easy that they'd go out with any guy who doesn't have three eyes.)

If you want to date a classy lady, forget all those cheesy pick-up lines and do what your momma said - treat women with respect.  You don't have be chivalrous (some women, like me, see that as well-meaning sexism), but you should focus on her, not on what you can get out of her.  If she reciprocates, she's a keeper.

[DeviantGent]

Hit them with the 'wormdo' line. Good times will be had.

[m0ds]

Respect isn't always the key. Plenty of women will get put off by you "trying" to respect them, or simply cos of your respect giving methods. But then I'm just bitter, and have seen the sweetest of women get mardy over the smallest compliments. The art of pick up boils down to one word. Rohipnol.

[LimpingFish]

I'll stick to paying for sex.

[MrColossal]

I'll stick to accepting money for sex.

[Pumaman]

I'll stick to arranging the deal and keeping my 10%.

[Phemar]

It's about you respecting the woman -- It's about the woman respecting you. If there's one thing I've learnt, it's that a woman always needs to respect her man in order for a relationship to succeed.
Be the alpha male, if you believe you are 'the man' and full of confidence, women pick up on this somehow. (the feminine radar ).

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Or you could just wait for one of those used-up broads to come along.  You know, the ones who have gone and had all their fun with the dangerous sorts of rough men out there and want to settle down to a nice, stable guy that will take care of them now that they've got kids/std's/broken ribs?

Or you can do the sensible thing and stick to internet porn and save yourself tons of money and emotional stress.