Sexuality issues

[Meowster]

How many more married gay men couples do you see getting AIDS than heterosexual married couples?

Exactly! I don't know a single gay person with AIDS. Especially not married gay couples, as they can't even get married in most places anyway.... Well said, SD

And look at places like Africa, where HIV is spreading horrifically fast. It's not spreading between the gay community, it's spreading from hetero to hetero, because of people having unprotected sex and not being educated enough about it. Tell me, radiowaves, does that make African people dirty and disgusting and worthless?

If religious people don't like gay people because god told them not to, then I wish they would say that and stop trying to think of other excuses as to why gay people are bad. Just admit you don't like them because they make you feel insecure and/or because god doesn't like them either. Don't make shit up.

[Buckethead]

Gee I didn't see this thread before. I'm gay myself and I didn't have many issues with it yet. My friends are cool about it. I think it's because I live in the Netherlands. People seem to be more open minded here. I even got one of my friends asking how gay sex feels. He is from Sweden though. I guess some people will always look a little different to gays then they look at straight people. I couldn't careless about them, most people are just cool to me. Maybe I'll encounter more problems in the future if I might meet the right guy and want to marry. But I think it's OK, since it's legal to marry in my country. 

[Meowster]

How do you know enough about the country to make assumptions like that? I think in a place like Estonia, there'd be less gay people, because they don't have perverted sexual ideas fed to them...

Steel Drummer, please at least read my post if you're going to reply to it. Or don't get involved in these discussions at all.

My point was that he doesn't know enough about homosexuality to make the assumptions that he does. It was an example, one that you should also pay attention to. Do you see now?

You repeatedly read post incorrectly and make offensive and uneducated remarks about gay people. Could you please stop posting in this thread or sort yourself out a bit.

[Steel Drummer]

If religious people don't like gay people because god told them not to, then I wish they would say that and stop trying to think of other excuses as to why gay people are bad. Just admit you don't like them because they make you feel insecure and/or because god doesn't like them either. Don't make shit up.

God never said to hate them, he just said that two men gettin' it on was wrong. He never said anything about being gay... 

Steel Drummer, please at least read my post if you're going to reply to it. Or don't get involved in these discussions at all. 

If I hadn't read your post, I wouldn't have referenced it by saying: 'How can you make assumptions like that.' 

And besides, who are you to tell me what threads I should and shouldn't post in? That's the moderators' job.

[Andail]

Radiowaves, please don't ever write such crap here again. Your entire post is such a magnificent display of ignorance and arrogance that it doesn't deserve an actual reply. But I feel I have to. Not because I think you will read the response; people like you rarely browse through the reactions of your troll dung.

* First of all, homosexuality isn't freakish just because it doesn't result in child birth. That would make being single and sexually abstaining freakish too, which it isn't. It would make couples who regularly have sex while on the pill freaks too, which they aren't.

* Secondly, not all homosexuals penetrate. Sex isn't defined by the practice of inserting your penis in another person's orifice, sex can be lots of stuff.

* Thirdly...oh and what about circumcision? Freakish and painful? I'm circumcised, I had sex just two hours ago and it went smashingly. No lube needed, no pain felt, nothing but pleasure, mate. She came, if you want to know.

* Fourthly, let's see...Kids become gay because their parents are? How extraordinarily dumb of you. "Child is a learning organism" oh damn are you sure? Good gravy, it sounds just like you have studied pedagogy for years and years! Which I have, by the way. I'm not even gonna treat this point further because it's just too dumb.

*Fifthly...Irreversible...is a movie. The thing I remember most clearly is the scene where a man rapes a woman. It's a 15 minutes, extremely disturbing scene, and there is nothing gay about it.

* Sixthly...just get over yourself, dude. Get out of your shell, learn to know some human beings.

[Meowster]

If I hadn't read your post, I wouldn't have referenced it by saying: 'How can you make assumptions like that.' 

And besides, who are you to tell me what threads I should and shouldn't post in? That's the moderators' job.

You read but completely misunderstood my post, which you've done on several occasions recently. It's highly irritating, as though you're only choosing what you want to see and ignoring everything else.

I'm ASKING you not to post because you're making a fool of yourself, and winding up everyone else. And it's not even as though you're contributing opinions that are useful or informed... I wouldn't mind if your views were the opposite of mine but backed up with real information and fact, but you repeatedly spout utter nonsense that you've pulled out of nowhere.

It doesn't take a moderator to see that you're being an ass.

Forget gays, forget religion, forget everything... you're being an asshole. You're trying to argue about a subject you know nothing about, using facts you've made up or heard somebody else make up. That makes your contribution annoying and pointless, no matter what it is you're arguing about, so I ask you again, PLEASE stop posting. Do something useful like research homosexuality and then try posting again. But at the moment you're doing nothing but winding people up and adding yet more shit to the internet.

[Andail]

Meowster, try to ignore the trolls.
I chose to reply only to Radiowaves, because he hasn't got a troll history. I'm not even reacting to Steeldrummer's/Yodaman's posts anymore. It's like a personal spamfilter.

[Gord10]

I completely agree with Andail; especially about the "pain of circumcision".

Almost every male in my country and the other Muslim countries are circumcisied; they would laugh out loudly if they heard someone said it is painful to have sex with a circumcisied penis.

Please don't have certain verdicts about the topics you don't know well.

[big brother]

Amazingly, one can grow the foreskin back after circumcision. Penn and Teller did a bit about that in that in their circumcision is bullshit episode.

Of course, magicians need to know how to make things reappear, so no big surprise.

[MrColossal]

after watching that episode of bullshit I was HYPER-AWARE of my junk for like 2 months... Ever step, every crouch, every time my cat jumped in my lap... Thanks Penn and Teller!

[Meowster]

I'm going to post this in reply to Steel Drummer and radiowaves, because it is factual and interesting information for everyone to read whilst (hopefully) simultaneously educating the pair of them a little.

http://www.avert.org/eurosum.htm

Of the 23,246 people with newly diagnosed HIV which the West reported in 2004,

    * 58% probably acquired HIV through heterosexual contact
    * 31% were homo/bisexual men
    * 9% were injecting drug users
    * 36% were female

Heterosexual contact has been the most frequent transmission mode in the West since 1999. It is responsible for the largest proportion of diagnosed HIV infections in every country except Germany, Denmark, Greece and the Netherlands, in which men who have sex with men form the largest transmission group. Heterosexual transmission predominates even in Portugal, which has a particularly severe HIV epidemic among injecting drug users.




For the attention of Steel Drummer and this comment in particular:

I think in a place like Estonia, there'd be less gay people, because they don't have perverted sexual ideas fed to them...

Estonia has more cases of HIV and AIDS reported every year than Austria, Denmark, Iceland, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Kazakhstan (great success!!), Greece... and so on and so on. Now, I'm not making any judgements about Estonia because clearly most countries have a problem with AIDS and there are some countries with more of a problem than Estonia. I'm simply pointing out the idiocy of what you said, Steel Drummer. Do you see that there, right there, is an example of you saying idiotic things without any knowledge behind what you're saying?

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I say you need to research your posts a little more.

[Raggit]

Penn and Teller are so awesome.  I love Bullshit!  (The show, not the actual thing.)

I thought that episode about infant circumcision was very well done, and I agree wholeheartedly.

[Tartalo]

I'd be very interested in hearing about any culture where the concept of "marriage" didn't originally have the hand of that culture's major religion in it.

Marriage is a social structure that seems present in all cultures with slight differences. Religion is too, and every important social issue has been traditionally blessed. So I don't see secular marriage as extracting something from Religion, but extracting Religion from a traditional social structure.

Penn and Teller would say that marriage itself is Bullshit, wouldn't they?

[Blackthorne]

People often say "People don't choose to be homosexuals; they're born that way."

And while I feel that statement has some validity to it - there are most certainly people who are born attracted to the same sex - I've known a few people in my lifetime that have "chosen" to be gay for many reasons.  I actually believe most people are bi-sexual to some degree.


Bt

[LimpingFish]

I think an interesting angle to homosexuality is the term "born that way" . It almost renders homosexuality as an imperfection in an otherwise "normal" person.

If, in fact, some people are genetically pre-disposed to homosexuality, what is the dominant factor in their genetic make-up that results in said homosexuality?

To say people are simply born "gay", denotes the presence of something beyond a developed (through life/experience/misc) attraction to the same sex.

If homosexual people are born that way, why do otherwise heterosexual people sometimes confess to experiencing, however fleeting, homosexual tendencies? Are these people actually born homosexual but, through life/experience/misc, conditioned to be heterosexual?

Presupposing that it is genetic, isn't it therefore possible that these factors could be isolated and "reprogrammed" in the subject at the foetal stage? That you could engineer specifically homo or hetero babies?

Or if, as Blackthorne said, all people are actually bi-sexual to some degree, then the point where a person "becomes" homo or hetero happens after birth. So homosexual people wouldn't be born that way.

Confusing.

[Meowster]

I think it's called the Kinsey scale... look it up, it's interesting but I have to run home now as my work here is DONE (at work, not on the forums obviously)

[LimpingFish]

Kinsey knew his onions.

The Kinsey Sexuality Scale.

His findings on the subject seem to indicate that terms "homosexual" and "heterosexual" are more or less transient.

Groovy.

[radiowaves]

For your surprise, I red through every reply to my courageous post. Ok, gay people exist, there isn't much to do about it and its ok if they do their own thing. I respect any homosexual being as any other human. But there is still no reason, why these people should earn the parental rights.
Do not forget the fact, that every normal parent puts his mind to his/her child, like extending the life to next generations. They teach him courage, wisdom, knowledge and standards of life, what is normal, and what is not. Have you ever thought about why in some areas of the world, people have sex when they are 13 year old, and in the other part of the world, pople doesn't have sex until they get married? Here is the hint: moral. And who are the main source of moral? Yes, parents. Hence, it does affect childs sexuality.
So, allowing homosexuals to adopt children, may lead the society to moral crisis. And it is true, that when one minority gets its rights to something, other such minorities start to claim rights too. And that Irreversible scene, think about where did such rapist come from.

It is kind of OT, but yes, Estonia has lots of HIV positives. But that is mostly due to big heroin usage in North-East Estonia where life standards are lower and crime rates bigger.
My statement that some homosexuals want to have a sexual experience with HIV positive comes again, from a TV show where a homosexual stated it. But yes, this is a minority, I think. So that statement, including threesomes etc, was a bit harsh, but it still aplies. Most of the heterosexuals, on the other hand, do not want to have a sexual intercourse with HIV positive, they are mostly just unaware of it.

[ManicMatt]

Radiowaves:

My brother is gay. I am not. We have the same parents and upbringing. Your theory is therefore flawed. And my brother is the nicest guy you could ever hope to meet, he's puts my niceness to shame!

Also, let me add that my parents brought me up to eat meat. Yet I do not eat meat now. So how come what they taught me has not applied? Although I think homosexuality is not a choice.

[MrColossal]

And yet your brother eats meat SORRY! OH GOD I COULDN'T RESIST IT!