Sexuality issues

[deadsuperhero]

In other news, my dog ate my homework today.
It sucked.

[Steel Drummer]

Good for you.

[ildu]

No, it was written by men who were told by God what they should write. Don't make accusations like that without studying the facts.

What a credential. Tantamount to L. Ron Hubbard, Dubya and the crazy person on my street who keeps arguing with the traffic lights.

P.S. Consider also that the Bible was heavily edited.

[Meowster]

Okay at this stage I'm inclined to agree with Helm and Andail and others: Everybody ignore the troll! We can all see that what he's saying is ridiculous, and none of us are going to change his mind until he grows up a little.

It seems obvious to me that he's a repressed homosexual, struggling to deal with his sexuality. There's no other reason he'd be so wound up by it all. It's no use arguing with people like him. Until he comes to terms with his homosexuality, he'll do anything to deny it.

Alliance: that's a really nice view of God, like the one I mentioned my friends having in school. And an awesome attitude, innit!!

[Babar]

Despite previous examples to the contrary  , not everyone who thinks that homosex is bad is homosexual. I'd find it a little far-fetched if every single "Word-of-God" believer were gay.

[Meowster]

Not every one, I can name many who aren't.

Just the ones who are so desperate to prove to themselves that being gay must be wrong, they make silly things up about homosexuals.

[voh]

I have a bit of a double opinion on the matter of homosexuality. While on one hand I've always felt it to be an awkward thing - man and woman is the intended sexuality of not only humans, but also animals and even some plants, making homosexuality a bit of a natural dysfunction. I'm not saying it's unnatural, because otherwise it wouldn't exist, and it would indeed have to be a choice, which it isn't.

However, what I've also always felt is that you can't punish a human being for something they didn't choose, and since homosexuality doesn't mean anything else than a difference in sexual preference, there's really no negative effect to see. There are men and women in the world who've vowed to remain celibate their entire lives. Now THAT is unnatural.

Gay marriage is logical. It's difficult enough for them to find a steady partner because sadly, the world still frowns on the matter of homosexuality, and a lot of homosexuals are afraid of coming out because of it. There's also a lot of homosexuals who are so afraid of coming out that they get married to a partner of the opposite sex but still have sex with partners of their own sex, seemingly leading a normal life but having to lie to themselves (or so they believe, what with the fear). I'm basing this on some friends of mine, who are gay, and who have on many occasions had to explain the lack of long relationships to people.

Most of them would want a long relationship, get married, perhaps adopt a kid, get a house, lead a normal (as much as possible for the outside world) and fulfilling life and not get hassled and picked on by bigots and assholes who can't accept that people can do whatever the hell they want, since it's a free world (mostly).

I am glad, and even proud that the Netherlands was the first country to allow same-sex marriages and civil unions, and to see that other European countries followed suit, and more countries planning on allowing it.

I feel that
1) Same-sex marriages, solely by their existance, support and comfort the gay community, saying it's okay according to the law, and therefore, please, come out, be honest and true to yourself (quote from a gay friend)
2) Adoption for same-sex couples also gives them a chance to do someting which people forget gay people have as well - the will and longing to be a parent and bring up a little person. Also, since gay couples can pretty much only adopt a kid, there's a loving home for kids who have nobody, which is worth all the trouble.
3) Being gay isn't a choice, and therefore there's no reason not to allow them to adopt. Other people will just have to accept that it's going to happen and stop their bigotry.

Everyone who tries to stop them from being what they are is saying that they are abnormal, and are freaks. In today's western societies, that's just completely ass-backwards. All of our forefathers fought for more freedom, freedom of choice, religion, speech, whatnot. And now some want to reverse parts of those and punish people for how they were born.

[ildu]

Okay at this stage I'm inclined to agree with Helm and Andail and others: Everybody ignore the troll!

It seems obvious to me that he's a repressed homosexual, struggling to deal with his sexuality. There's no other reason he'd be so wound up by it all. It's no use arguing with people like him. Until he comes to terms with his homosexuality, he'll do anything to deny it.

If anything, this is the real trolling. Having his own opinions doesn't mean he's gay. There are loads of reasons he might be sore about it - living in a like-minded community for one.

[Meowster]

I'm trying to point out how annoying it can be when people make assumptions about you based on nothing relevant at all.

But I fear it may be lost on him as he likely has HIV, as he's clearly a repressed homosexual, and HIV  makes it difficult for people to concentrate. Coincidentally, another symptom of HIV is being a young male and making up facts to support an argument as to why you don't like homosexuals.

Fact!

Good heavens, he's almost certainly riddled with disease. Dirty, dirty, perverted boy.

If SD intends to make things up and make ridiculous and untrue statements to support his opinions on certain groups of people, he must expect people to do the same of him. I've decided I don't like SD, and I'm going to make up all the facts in the world as to why. Maybe this will help him realise the error of his perverted ways, and he'll stop playing into the hands of the devil himself.

[Buckethead]

Everyone completely ignored my post! I bet it's because I'm gay  :'(

[ManicMatt]

No it's because you have a bucket for a head.

[Helm]

I believe that in some cases becoming gay is not a biological inclination as much as a social inclination. I don't say 'choice' because I don't believe in free will to begin with, but in your terms, I mean 'gay by choice', yes. As in they feel they should become gay inspite of their heterosexual inclination being at least just as strong.

I don't think this discredits biologically inclined gays in any serious way, as social choices about one's own sexuality are up to them anyway as far as I'm concerned and as long as they're not hurting or forcing anybody. I just don't like to see people kneejerk 'OMFG IT'S ALL GENETIC, ASSHOLE' everytime someone says 'hey, people have gone gay without any of that sometimes'.

If anything, were we to study humans free from social constraints for a few generations we'd probably find habitual homosexuality because sex = stress reliever and you can have sex with whomever. This doesn't mean one is gay or straight because these terms are loaded. It means people enjoy coming. In this sense, we're pansexual.

[biothlebop]

Dominant - Submissive
Male - Female
Masculine - Feminine
Master - Servant

I see these words/concepts in a way interlinked and possibly relating to the orientation of sexuality. Our genes determine our masculinity, our "power", so in a way sexual orientation is not our choice. The act, however, is, if we believe in the concept of choice.

A male that lacks animal (masculine) power might be directed toward homosexuality by its environment; The stronger males will hoard the females for themselves (leading to a disproportion between available males and females), while the "weaker" (more feminine) males will still have unsatisfied urges.
If the male does not utilise another male to satisfy these urges, that male is not neccessarily an homosexual, unless masturbation is seen as homosexual.
In fact, by some definition, any sexual conduct without the intent or possibility of reproduction could be seen as homosexual or deviant sexual behaviour.

In the case of lesbians, i'd believe that there are cases when a masculine female is "stronger" than the available males (or there is a female/male disproportion)
and she directs her urges upon another "weaker" (more feminine) female. Sometimes this could present itself as dominatrixes in heterosexual behaviour.

I believe we merely choose partners (from those we can dominate/submit to us) or are chosen (by those that exercise their power upon us or that we submit to), and every sexual encounter is an individual occurrence, a choice. I am not 100% heterosexual, I have kissed men and even found it pleasing, but choose to refrain from further "traditional" homosexual behaviour (penetration etc.), since it places a certain stigma upon the individual and I wouldn't gain anything from it, as my needs are usually fulfilled, and if the interest arises, I could even have a woman take my anal virginity with a dildo or something and still be heterosexual by some definitions.
----
The above is slightly influenced by Nietsche (I have been recently listening to some audio-lectures by Robert Solomon & Kathleen Higgins about him and his ideas) and the interpretation that (a struggle of) power describes well the underlying motives for human interaction, so this is from that perspective. Also, I have a feeling that everything connects in some cosmical way, so sexuality and human behaviour can probably be explained in several other ways as well and there are probably lots of individual examples that prevent this from being always accurate.

I haven't yet read all posts either (sorry), so this might be redundant, but I felt like writing something based on those that I did.

[Sam.]

Conform to dated rules set out by MEN, not God (Yes, the bible was written by men)

No, it was written by men who were told by God what they should write. Don't make accusations like that without studying the facts.

and who told YOU that? The men who bloody wrote it. Don't make accusations like that without a sense of perspetive.

[Erenan]

God told me what to say in this post, as follows:

Shut up! I'm trying to sleep!


God didn't tell me to say this part:

I mostly agree with what Helm said, minus the genetic determinism.

[lo_res_man]

I am a Christian. I condone gay marriage because I condone freedom of others. I'm not going to make gays miserable (like The WCBC, which is evil)
God loves everyone. He even sent His Son to set an example for us.
...or did you skip that part of the Bible?
Let people live their own lives.

That is basically what I think as well,  allowing people to live their own lives is fine with me. As long as you follow the golden rule, found in thousands of ethical codes, you are a morel person. Whether gayness is "choice" or not I'll leave to the scientists, but even if its not genetic, it may be no more of choice then a mental illness, ( though it isn't one, I am not implying that)
I like to think of my self as somewhat christian, that is, it is the religion I most identify with, but that may be just my upbringing.

[Becky]

Even if it is a choice, does it really matter when it comes to treating all human beings as equals, allowing consenting adults to live their lives as they see fit? 

[Helm]

I agree strongly, Becky. I just dislike people disregarding possible truth because they kneejerked all the way out of ballpark.

[voh]

What I've always found peculiar is the split in homosexual society, where there's the type that's just a regular guy/girl who just so happens to be homosexual, and you've got the over-the-top effeminate guys and over-the-top masculine girls.

They crack me up though. There's nothing funnier than seeing a skinny guy in a pink boa tell off some guy for calling him a 'queer' while making elaborate hand gestures and speaking in a high-pitched squeeky voice. Especially the fact that the guy calling him something negative will usually slink off, entirely uncomfortable with the looks he's getting.

Pink boas FTW!

[lo_res_man]

Even if it is a choice, does it really matter when it comes to treating all human beings as equals, allowing consenting adults to live their lives as they see fit? 

Exactimo Becky, it's your life, you live it, sexuality is not a moral issue.