Shadowrun Returns

[qptain Nemo]

I've seen quite a few AGSers play it on Steam, so... thoughts?

Personally, I'm enjoying it very much. It's very easy-going. The cyberpunk atmosphere is lovely. I really appreciate the characterization. The characters are well-written and fleshed out, a refreshing change from... many other games that lack that. The story could use more brilliance, irony and open-mindedness, but it's truly far from dumb, which is also quite refreshing.

Also I really like the story-driven focus and relatively rare in-place turn-based combat. I really wanted to make something like that/see that made. The moderate amount of combat encounters made me appreciate it more than when it happens all the time. And I think it's really appropriate for turn-based combat, to have it accordingly to quality over quantity rule.

And the graphics and the music serve their purpose really well. Not a fan of isometric graphics and I wouldn't nominate it for my favourite soundtrack, but it all puts me in the right mood just wonderfully.

So, haven't beaten it yet, but so far playing it has been a breeze.

[kconan]

  I'm enjoying it, really the only thing I don't like are the matrix levels.  The save system took some getting used to, but I don't mind it now.

  The graphics are good, the plot (and subplots) range from decent to awesome, and the turn-based combat is a blast.  Its worth the 17 bucks or whatever it is on Steam.  This one will live on in future expansions and fan maps/mods.

[qptain Nemo]

  I'm enjoying it, really the only thing I don't like are the matrix levels. 

Yeah, I find the matrix levels boring as hell.

[Ilyich]

Already finished it, and enjoyed it quite a lot! It's not at all the huge, non-linear open-world Adventure/RPG in the Fallout/Arcanum tradition I dreamed it could be, and in several ways it's even inferior to the lovely SNES game, but it's far from being a disappointment, because, despite all the issues I have with it - it's a really fun game and I desperately want more. Wiz.

The combat is great (thumbs up for ripping it from XCOM), the graphics are gorgeous (yes, they are, if you disagree - you are wrong ), the Shadowrun setting is presented in all of it's wonderful, atmospheric, silly, derivative glory, the writing is mostly very good (and there's a lot of it), and, ultimately, everything works well.
And I didn't even mind the matix levels all that much - they are a bit crap drek, but I enjoyed the idea of helping your team by being a mean hacker decker.
The overall linearity and a somewhat casual, tablety feel of the UIs, coupled with the checkpoint save system (really, guys?) did irk me a bit, but not nearly enough to ruin the experience.

Also, it's quite hard for me to imagine this game being made if not for Kickstarter, which makes me all the more optimistic about the whole thing. It's also the first released Kickstarter game I had pledged to and had high hopes for. Much to my surprise - I didn't end up disappointed!

So, if you haven't done it already - go buy it, chummers! That is unless you find the idea of a good story-driven cyberpunk RPG repugnant, of course.

[Technocrat]

Hm...a friend of mine pointed it out to me today, and I'm almost tempted. I think my brain might melt from too much cyberpunk, at the moment...

[Armageddon]

I really hate the grid movement system outside of combat. They were so close to a perfect isometric sci-fi game...

[qptain Nemo]

Already finished it, and enjoyed it quite a lot! It's not at all the huge, non-linear open-world Adventure/RPG in the Fallout/Arcanum tradition

Personally I actually enjoy it way more than Fallout & Arcanum so far due to the pacing and the treatment of combat.

and in several ways it's even inferior to the lovely SNES game

Please, elaborate on that, I'm curious.

(thumbs up for ripping it from XCOM)

Couldn't agree more. There couldn't be a better influence. Well, the original is a better influence than the new one, but even the new one takes its roots from the original so it's the original either way.

the graphics are gorgeous (yes, they are, if you disagree - you are wrong )

I agree! And it's coming from somebody who strongly dislikes isometric-ness.

And I didn't even mind the matix levels all that much - they are a bit crap drek, but I enjoyed the idea of helping your team by being a mean hacker decker.

They are a cool idea, sure, but I wish the implementation wasn't so mind-numbingly dull.

The overall linearity

A downside for sure, but when the game is so easy-going and pleasant, not such a huge one in my eyes.

tablety feel of the UIs

Personally I think the UI is great. Don't care about its influences when it looks so nice and is so pleasant to use.

coupled with the checkpoint save system (really, guys?)

Yes. It made me ragequit pretty much every time I died.

Sorry for dismembering your post so much, Ilych, it was... very inviting for comments.

Hm...a friend of mine pointed it out to me today, and I'm almost tempted. I think my brain might melt from too much cyberpunk, at the moment...

No such thing as too much cyberpunk.

[kconan]

  One thing I feel like the game is missing is the kind of loot drop when you have a big enemy with a big gun who gets killed, I feel like he should drop the gun and then I (or someone else) should be able to pick it up.  I do like that there isn't a bunch of searching crates, chests, etc...But when I drop an enemy who has something cool looking, I want the ability to check it out.  I'd put this right after the Matrix levels on the short gripe list.

  I stayed up way to late last night playing this game...Those riggers and drones are so cool, and make for a variety of fun combat strategies.

[qptain Nemo]

Yeah, I dislike it when you can't pick whatever the enemies used to attack you. It's very illogical and artificial and I consider it bad balance.

[Ilyich]

Personally I actually enjoy it way more than Fallout & Arcanum so far due to the pacing and the treatment of combat.

You are dead to me now!  I can understand where you're coming from, though - the combat is better and it has "no filler - all killer" kind of design that really carries you through the game, instead of Fallout's "it's all filler, shut up, you love it". I do miss the freedom and world exploration though, in that regard it's really lacking for an RPG. And the funny thing is - (cue segue to the next question) SNES Shadowrun had plenty of that! You could walk around the city, catch a monorail to some other part of the town, check up on whichever cryptic clues you have etc. It had inventory puzzles too, Karma and money weren't strictly rationed out at plot points and you had to prepare for upcoming events yourself: going into a gang territory - better hire yourself a bodyguard, going to meet a vampire - make sure to stock up on stakes and holy water at your closest shaman shop. And it was beautiful. Admittedly, It was also pretty confusing and not nearly as engrossing, with tons of aimless wandering around trying to figure what to do and almost impossible to deal with without a walkthrough, with most of these problems stemming from giving the player too much freedom and too little direction. But I feel that they migh've gone a bit too far in the opposite direction with Shadowrun Returns, holding your hand at every turn. I admit that it's unfair to judge something on the basis of what it's not, but could've been, though, especially since Shadowrun Returns succeeds at being a pretty great game as it is.

Couldn't agree more. There couldn't be a better influence. Well, the original is a better influence than the new one, but even the new one takes its roots from the original so it's the original either way.

As much as I loved the old X-COMs, I think the new XCOM is even a better influence - it's cover-based system and 2 part turns are truly brilliant design decisions.

Personally I think the UI is great. Don't care about its influences when it looks so nice and is so pleasant to use.

Yeah, it does feel nice and slick and shiny, I'll give you that. I was mostly reffering to the somewhat awkward Stash and equipment interfaces, but they're not too bad either.

Also, I've tried playing a few user mods, and the good news are - they work! Even when not nearly as good as the original campaign - they can still be pretty fun and captivating, so I think we are safe to expect some great campaigns from the Shadowrun community in the future.

[selmiak]

Y U No Post trailer and/or gameplayvid in the first post when starting discussion about a game?

[qptain Nemo]

You are dead to me now!  I can understand where you're coming from, though - the combat is better and it has "no filler - all killer" kind of design that really carries you through the game, instead of Fallout's "it's all filler, shut up, you love it".

Well, I still like Fallout and Arcanum more stylistically and atmospherically. But yeah, exactly, there's also what you said here.

As much as I loved the old X-COMs, I think the new XCOM is even a better influence - it's cover-based system and 2 part turns are truly brilliant design decisions.

Well, now YOU are dead to ME! Even deader! So there! Obviously I disagree. They are not bad design per se, but I find them very lacking in comparison to the flexibility of the original X-COM and the resulting variety of what could happen during a mission.

Y U No Post trailer and/or gameplayvid in the first post when starting discussion about a game?

cos i think ur not lazy nubz who cant google lol

[Crimson Wizard]

Every good game has its flavor and appeal (sorry for this platitude), and this one is not an exception. At first I was disappointed by some of its features, but later I realized it is simply not precisely what I expected to play. I haven't seen it all, but from what I saw I think it is rather a tactical combat cross-breed with adventure game . Personally I don't see much more RPG in it, than, for example, in "Jagged Alliance".
BTW, "Jagged Alliance 2" was the first that came to mind when I learnt you cannot loot dead enemies. In JA2 you could, but so rarely.

Atmosphere, dialogs, graphics - these are very good.
There are only two things I really hated: the strange choice for autosave system, or rather lack of checkponts - so that you wouldn't have to repeat 15 minutes of walking and talking every time you die in combat, and... the position for dialog GUI: it may be tiresome to read the long texts when they are aligned at the right border of a wide screen.
(Also, I really hope the day will come when game developers start adding "font size" option to their games)

Other things I could note. The overall combat/movement system is very simplified. Everything beyond simple walking is trigger-based. I remember I was very confused when entered some bad guy's apartments (a girl rescue mission) via the secret passage: there was no indication that my characters are not detected, except for a story text, that appeared at the bottom of the screen.
One could argue that this makes the whole thing more fast-paced and dynamic. Well, that's true. As I said, every game has its own traits.

(By the way, on retrospect, the combat in Fallout was generally primitive too, and even more so in Arcanum, where you could use just 2 spells through whole game when playing a mage (Harm and Heal). When it comes to firearm combat I usually compare with original X-COM and Jagged Alliance series, and when it comes to magic - with Baldur's Gate).

That is a general complaint, not specifically related to this game, but for a while now I really don't like how the magic is so commonly and easily used by characters; the damage spell mechanics does not seem to have any difference from fire arms, so it's only the choice of what you prefer to upgrade with your "experience points". In this game this somehow stands-out, because there is whole set of actions available only if you have a certain skill (Decking).

Hmm, what else. The grenades. I was like 0_0 "oh, come on!" when I used them for the first time. (remember how people flied in Fallout? )

Also. I prefer destructible environments .


EDIT: This game revives nostalgic memories. I haven't played Shadowrun on SNES (I didn't have SNES at all); but there was a period of time (I was maybe 14-15 y/o then) when I was inventing my own Lord of The Rings / Matrix cross-breed world: The Ring, containing some important control chip, Nazguls with cyber implants, that sort of thing . I even drew few pictures, there was one of orcish band drinking in the contemporary-looking bar .

[kconan]

Also. I prefer destructible environments .

Oh man...This is the main reason I played Silent Storm Gold over and over again.  No line of sight?  Make one. 

[qptain Nemo]

Ok, I have beaten the game. It's mostly very pleasant as has been said numerously in this thread, however it's disappointing, to put it lightly, that the story from a rather original and personal quest turns into the most cliched thing imaginable within the genre, specifically

Spoiler

saving the world and doing so by no less than killing monstrosities in a dungeon? really?

[close]

I really don't see why it was necessary to use interesting events and relatively nuanced personal drama merely as a wrapping for this.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I think it's a good game, though I dislike the autosave system and have had the game crash and set me back an entire mission before.  I also miss the exploration side but fortunately the editor for it will allow people to make more robust content for it in the future.

I'm also planning to pre-order Wasteland 2 when they finally get the beta ready in October.

[qptain Nemo]

I'm also planning to pre-order Wasteland 2 when they finally get the beta ready in October.

Only the beta? I thought the actual game release was planned for this autumn? :o

[Eggie]

On the last bit now! Really like it! It's pretty! It has nice characters! The combat encounters feel meaningful! The way you build your character feels meaningful! The autosave is unfortunate! I actually like the grid system! Sometimes the writing is a bit dodge! My favourite randomly selected runner is a troll rigger called Shiny Bit! Bye!

[kconan]

 I'm seeing lots of potentially cool looking mods (some include loot drops) appearing in the Steam Workshop for Shadowrun Returns.  I would hold off on downloading for now though and give them a month or so at least, as many are alphas or proof of concepts at this point.

  Word on the street is the Berlin expansion comes out in late October.
 

[qptain Nemo]

I'm seeing lots of potentially cool looking mods (some include loot drops) appearing in the Steam Workshop for Shadowrun Returns.  I would hold off on downloading for now though and give them a month or so at least, as many are alphas or proof of concepts at this point.

Well if you do find some cool shit, please do post about.