SOPA and PIPA

[Radiant]

(That's probably not the intent of most of the people driving the development - I think few politicians are actually malevolently set on destroying freedom - but that's what they're setting up the foundations for.)

I do think that most politicians have good intentions. But that's not enough. After all, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Just because they mean well doesn't mean they act well.

[miguel]

Khris and RickJ, thanks for the explanation, I would not believe this was so serious.
You see, in my country, laws are never well made so that lawyers can bend and find work around ways to ignore them or use them depending on the side they are defending.

I mean, published contents that are copyright owned is what the internet is all about, imagine the www containing only official brand sites or government sites...it would be like a supermarket where you can't bargain!
I recently played this browser game called The Curfew, in the game the gov controls the internet (and everything else!) but there's this hackers that place virtual tags that you can access through your mobile camera thus allowing you to get underground content, in other words, black market!

I guess that with every over controlled society a underground equivalent rises...

[RickJ]

(That's probably not the intent of most of the people driving the development - I think few politicians are actually malevolently set on destroying freedom - but that's what they're setting up the foundations for.)

I do think that most politicians have good intentions. But that's not enough. After all, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Just because they mean well doesn't mean they act well.

I don't think they concerned about it or ever give it much thought!

I guess that with every over controlled society a underground equivalent rises...

I call it the Free market

[miguel]

Yes, and I'll start a movement right now, challenging all adventure game makers to go underground, use secret codes and fake names, like I can be Miguel and not miguel and sell onions!

Not paying VAT will set you free!


PS: somebody is calling my phone as I write...foreign number...a knock on my door...I got to go!

[Noctambulo]

I guess that with every over controlled society a underground equivalent rises...

I call it the Free market

I call that Utopia... well, Dystopia... A REAL free market could never exist (at least, I hope not)

[RickJ]

Here is a good explanation of what's in the bills by the EFF:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/01/how-pipa-and-sopa-violate-white-house-principles-supporting-free-speech

[Secret Fawful]

Speaking of SOPA, this makes my brain hurt-

https://twitter.com/#!/herpderpedia

[Nikolas]

It seems that a very few congressmen or sponsors/supporters of SOPA and PIPA are abandoning it... http://mashable.com/2012/01/18/pipa-sopa-abandon-bill/

In the mean time, if I may concentrate on a facebook post:

ubio communicated his withdrawal via a Facebook post, titled “A Better Way to Fight the Online Theft of American Ideas and Jobs,” in which he argues Congress should avoid rushing to pass the bill that could have unintended consequences.

It does seem that the Internet for the guy has boundaries, and a very specific place it exists: AMERICA! YAY!... Who gives a shit about the rest of the world, right? 

[Radiant]

It seems that a very few congressmen or sponsors/supporters of SOPA and PIPA are abandoning it... http://mashable.com/2012/01/18/pipa-sopa-abandon-bill/

Well, as Progz suggested, they may either be very disconnected (and thus unaware of the big internet strike) or in the pocket of the big media companies. So that's not really surprising.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I just want to sincerely thank Snarky, who has been at odds with me in the past for my concerns about police state issues in America.  It is good to see awareness rising, and that can only mean good things.

Look.  Many retired colonels (decorated Lt. Col Anthony Shaffer one of the most vocal) and government officials have actually decried the NDAA as a 'quasi-martial law', and when you really think about what it does, it is.  Not only does it define America as a battlefield but it designates ALL Americans as potential terrorist suspects subject to the discretion of the Executive.  It legislates the military to act as federal police in direct defiance of posse comitatus, but so many Americans just don't want to believe their country can have people in high levels of government working against them that they walk around in this dissociative haze, parroting only what they see on Fox News.

I see precisely the same thing happening with SOPA, though fortunately for us there is an entire GENERATION of internet users now and they don't want to see their outlet of free speech and expression chopped up, processed, and turned into a set of virtual military checkpoints where you have to consider every word you write carefully to avoid offending some business or official with the wealth or connections to have your internet presence literally revoked.

I just want to add that I don't believe in any apocalypse 2012 scenarios; what I believe in are people, and I know that if enough of us speak up unafraid, make videos, join protests on street corners, print out awareness pamphlets about SOPA and other issues we feel attack our civil liberties, we WILL win.  

It's not a matter of optimism, of that I have no doubt, because there are far more of us than there are legislators, and more than that, laws still require them to be re-elected by vote; a vote those pro-SOPA senators won't be getting from any politically aware voter.

I actually expect quite a shake up in the house and senate in the next election cycle, which can only mean good things.  Afterall, we're talking about a congress that has a record-low approval rating of 8%!

[Noctambulo]

Without SOPA or PIPA, Megaupload is down, 7 arrested, $50 M and 18 domains confiscated...

[monkey0506]

This sums it up pretty well.

And the fact that MegaUpload has been brought down, pending conviction (presumably, it will be back up if the charges are overturned), just goes to prove how very much we do not need SOPA/PIPA. The laws that are already in place are sufficient. We don't need more law, we need more enforcement.

[RickJ]

And then there is this bit from Iran:
https://plus.google.com/114124708527697564422/posts/gB8VnoQHy6Y#114124708527697564422/posts/gB8VnoQHy6Y

[monkey0506]

It seems that a very few congressmen or sponsors/supporters of SOPA and PIPA are abandoning it... http://mashable.com/2012/01/18/pipa-sopa-abandon-bill/

The Washington Post lists several more "co-sponsors" who say that they won't support this as written. 7 million (unverified) signatures may only be constituted by a small portion of the American population, but I would hope that in a "democracy" (or "democratic republic") that it would be at least enough to make these politicians reconsider. If this does go through, I am convinced that it will be a direct result of the media corporations buying out the legislators.

[RickJ]

Apparently Anonymous took down the DOJ and a number of other websites in retaliation.  I think a "Boycott The Movies" may be more effective.  Imagine if movie theaters went empty for 1 or 2 weekends?

[Wyz]

Yes, a full on Universal boycott would definitely help if you'd ask me. I've been propagating that since yesterday.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I haven't gone to the movies in something like 6 years because prices have become outrageous so that will be easy for me to boycott. 

[Snarky]

I just want to sincerely thank Snarky, who has been at odds with me in the past for my concerns about police state issues in America.  It is good to see awareness rising, and that can only mean good things.

Thanks ProgZ. I think this is a topic where we agree on a number of important issues, while still disagreeing about some of the fundamental principles involved, details of the analysis, and the conclusions we draw.

I've always been concerned with civil liberties and civil rights, and particularly with the dangers of unaccountable power. The hollowing-out of established protections in the US has been worrying me since the PATRIOT Act. I nevertheless differ from the libertarian position in that I don't see many other aspects of government regulation and exercise of power (including much economic policy) as illegitimate, nor do I see a danger to liberty from supranational bodies and treaties.

Like I said, I think few if any politicians and other drivers behind these concerning developments are deliberately out to create a US police state. I think they just see the powers and secrecy as being useful to fight terrorists, criminals and other undesirables (whose civil rights they probably do to a large extent discount), and overlook or don't believe in the long-term negative effects and dangers to freedom in general. When it comes to censorship and copyright, I mostly blame lobbying from special interests.

[RickJ]

I've always been concerned with civil liberties and civil rights, and particularly with the dangers of unaccountable power. The hollowing-out of established protections in the US has been worrying me since the PATRIOT Act. I nevertheless differ from the libertarian position in that I don't see many other aspects of government regulation and exercise of power (including much economic policy) as illegitimate, nor do I see a danger to liberty from supranational bodies and treaties.

Snarky,  I think many people have this same point of view and I have always wondered how they  can trust government on somethings but not others.  Unaccountable power is always a danger to liberty, IMHO. 

[monkey0506]

SOPA is "dead", or so we're asked to believe.

Just when I was about to start organizing a Houston-based boycott of theaters for a week. Dang. Maybe I'll do it anyway.