The 'Emo' attitude as Neo-Romanticism?

[voh]

-Nationalism: Like any American, some have it, some don't.

I don't know why, but this rubbed me the wrong way. I know you didn't mean it this way, but it came across as if you're assuming it's just about Americans. Sadly, emos are fucking everywhere.

As a serious answer to the original question though - why do you assume that emo is something 'new' or even unique? It isn't - believe me. Emos are pretty much what comes after goth. And goth comes from new wave. And new wave were the original goths/emos. The difference is that the music's changed back towards the new wave more (punk influences rather than metal) and due to the advent of internet, the way they show themselves to the world has changed.

Emospace is pretty much the place for emos. All the pictures taken in bathrooms, looking sad in their camera in mirror shots. Emos by definition are no different than skaters, punks, metalheads and any other music style with a dress code. It's just one of many.

I get so sick of people trying to quantify fads that I actually feel rather saddened by the fact that people are willing to spend their time wondering about these stupid things. Emos like specific music, they dress accordingly (or not). Do you recognize an emo by what he listens to? No.

You recognize them by their clothing, hair style.

Just like you recognize any other music fan who's dressing according to the music genre's generally accepted style.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Gah.

[Erenan]

@lo_res_man: Baroque came before the Classical period. Classicism and Neoclassicism were separated by the Romantic period. The Neoclassical movement, at least in music, came at the end of the Romantic era, and was probably another product of the onset of World War I. These dramatic kinds of events invariably produce some change in the cultural atmosphere, and while the Dadaists turned towards what appeared to be a flippant attitude towards art and intellectualism, the Neoclassicists embraced traditional forms and structures.

All this to say that while I doubt the Emo trend is in its entirety a direct result of the 9/11 attacks, those events, like World Wars I and II, most certainly had an effect on contemporary culture (particularly American), and this in turn would reasonably be expected to have an effect on the cultural outlook of the modern youth, which I do suspect includes, at least in part, the development of Emo.

And I do want to point out that I find the Emo subculture to be rather silly. But as my wife is studying to become an educational counselor, I do have some measure of interest in the why and how of modern youth culture, and this supercedes what I find silly. Children think and behave the way they do for a reason (many reasons), and I think it's often prudent to try to understand why.

[Andail]

why did this get moved to general discussion? this isn't meant to be a discussion! i was just asking for help in preparing my class...

The critics lounge is for getting c&c on creative material you publish. You haven't published any creative material, you have listed a few questions that you need help with for a school assignment.

You should know how to use the forums by now.

[radiowaves]

Emos are posers, end of topic. Besides, you know any grown up emo? Romanticism was among the adults too, you know.

[Sam.]

What are they posing as?

Your attitude is all well and good, but it is a gnerecic dismissal, which i doubt you can back up. Any group of people who follow a fashion trend could be called a poser, why single out emos?

No Grown up Emos? Emos are teenagers because teenagers have to deal with growing up, changing and finding out about themselves, issues which adults don't have, to a certain extent.  For some people, listening to sad music and dressing a certain way is an outlet. Certainley a healthier one than putting on a hoody and mugging someone.

[Hudders]

I think "subculture" is the operative word here.

The romantic period was defined by romaticism being the prevailing trend throughout the society of the western world. It wasn't just something teenagers cried about in their bedrooms.

Certainley a healthier one than putting on a hoody and mugging someone.

Discrimination.

Hoodies and muggings are mutually exclusive. One does not inspire the other. Just as I could wear a hoody and be a perfectly respectable member of society, I could equally go around mugging someone in a tweed jacket and bow-tie.

[Sam.]

I wasnt suggesting that in any way. But putting on a hopody and mugging somoene isnt a good outlet is it? I was just giving an example. Not naming another group.

[Vel]

While I do acknowledge that the two bear a few traits in common, there are considerable differences. Romanticism was a mass movement in the XIX century, whereas emo-ism is more like a movement of social outcasts and people who generally tend to see themselves as anti-conformists. Also, people from the romantic movement, even it's more darker and gloomier side(Poe, Baudelaire etc.) never cut themselves. Death was seen as a savior, but all the same a quiet death was something generally disliked, unlike heroic , romanitc notions of death in battle.

On a more humorous side, this is what wiki tells you:

Emo:

Romanticism:

[Andail]

Also, people from the romantic movement, even it's more darker and gloomier side(Poe, Baudelaire etc.) never cut themselves.

Aha? You examined their bodies?
I believe a certain type of people have always tried to hurt themselves, to overshadow their inner, spiritual pain. Maybe not always with dad's razor in front of their bathroom mirror, but in various ways. I think people lately (=this generation) have brought it to new levels because it's been acknowledged by society.
I've heard really really old people, at least women, talk about how they used to cut themselves back in the 30's even, although nobody back then would imagine that selfmutilation was a common practice.

[radiowaves]

What are they posing as?

Your attitude is all well and good, but it is a gnerecic dismissal, which i doubt you can back up. Any group of people who follow a fashion trend could be called a poser, why single out emos?

No Grown up Emos? Emos are teenagers because teenagers have to deal with growing up, changing and finding out about themselves, issues which adults don't have, to a certain extent.  For some people, listening to sad music and dressing a certain way is an outlet. Certainley a healthier one than putting on a hoody and mugging someone.

One thing is to wear some clothes, whats considered fashion (a business propaganda of big cloth corporations), different issue is to extend it to behavior by denying self. Shure its about finding out in a teenage period but that only leads to that people have too much free time. Sobing about some deep emotional state is just a nitpick, an excuse. If you have something important to do, you forget about your deeper state and discover that you are absolutely ok. You ever go to the movies? You know sometimes the film may be so interesting that you forget you have to cough since you are ill. Nature is based on physical acts and physical acts construct the emotional state, so, some hobbies or a work doesn't do any bad.
I am not saying emos are bad, I don't care much really. I am just trying to say that a person may lose something, make a wrong desicion because he/she is being confused with that "emo-state". I am too young to be a parent, but maybe some fathers here can say a word what they would think if their kid turns emo and starts writin suicidal poems that one day turn into just a fake act.

[Andail]

Shure its about finding out in a teenage period but that only leads to that people have too much free time. Sobing about some deep emotional state is just a nitpick, an excuse. If you have something important to do, you forget about your deeper state and discover that you are absolutely ok. You ever go to the movioes? You know sometimes the film may be so interesting that you forget you have to cough since you are ill. Nature is based on physical acts and physical acts construct the emotional state, so, some hobbies or a work doesn't do any bad.

You simplify what it is to be human. Not only emos have inner conflicts and depressions.

Also, if teenagers feel they need to write suicidal notes - whether it's sincere or "just an act" as you so know-it-allingly describes it, it tells something about society, and should make people and especially parents to ask questions about the world we live in, rather then tell off their kids or force them to go to the cinema.

[radiowaves]

Todays society was exactly my point. Yes, every human has some deeper state but not in such extension as emos.
You ever wonder why such subcultures only rule in certain societies, like rich white kid societies for example? There are proabbly not much emos in Brazilian slums or in Brooklyn ghettos, instead of lifestyle, what we white kids use to have, they have life - true culture that has grown from actual condition of society. Look at hip-hop for example. European and American hip-hop is completely different, and there is rich kids mainstream and more abstract hip hop, often called as underground hip hop which rich white trash has fakely obtained too. So, such things as hip-hop, emo etc , that are often called as lifestyles, are more like hobbies for fat western kid whose physical and emotional states are perfect, so balanced that the kid doesn't know what to do anymore and invents some emotional state or culture inspired by others. Because in nature, practical conditions do all the guidance. True people do not need to act out their emotional states -- they live it.
Romanticism indeed can be compared to emo state, but I would compare it more with hippies

[police brutality]

I've processed this discussion so far, and I realize I was wrong, like Mr Flibble said, it'd be an struggle to put Emo as Romanticism, I would just be romanticising it.

The difference comes down to just one thing, like it's been pointed out: romanticism is about passion (and hence the political element, I suppose) emo, to me, doesn't have that, and it's more about feeling apathetic.

However, I'm still VERY puzzled by this, I mean, I'm pretty sure that a large portion of "emos" aren't just feeling they way they do just to follow a trend. Sure, many of them can be posing, but the reason many bands with lyrics like "I can't make it on my own, so cut my wrists and black my eyes" become very popular, must be that they're somehow saying what some people want to say. And I think that's a lot of people, and their reasons for feeling that way, should have a common origin, something's that going on with our society that either didn't exist or wasn't noticed 10 years ago.

In my opinion, at this point, no movement can be a "mass movement", because literally, the huge variety of movements and sub cultures that exist in the world today make EVERY culture a minority.

However, if we pick the Western World, and try to find a common denominator for all the subcultures/tastes/rituals/tendencies of it's high and middle classes, (the classes that generally are more educated, and thus represent better the feeling of their country) can we say we're going trough a romantic period?

EDIT

So, such things as hip-hop, emo etc , that are often called as lifestyles, are more like hobbies for fat western kid whose physical and emotional states are perfect, so balanced that the kid doesn't know what to do anymore and invents some emotional state or culture inspired by others. Because in nature, practical conditions do all the guidance. True people do not need to act out their emotional states -- they live it. 

I don't think so. Having no goals in life and feeling apathetic is enough reason to feel depressed => depressing music => liking it => imitating the band's wardrobe etc.

[radiowaves]

Heck, I feel depressed too, alot, thought about suicides, but heck I don't get much relief in depressing music, so I don't consider myself an emo. I am just the one who needs a psychologist. Now lots of emos, in my mind, don't need a psych. "All the pain of the world is inside me" and all that crap, I just don't buy it, thats a fake one. If a person feels depressed, he doesn't talk like this and start imitating some band after that, he does stuff of his own.
Ofcourse I may be wrong and that is just my subjective opinion, so no offence to anyone etc.

[Hammerite]

i don't find most music that modern "emos" listen to, really that depressing.
They just really overdo it to the point of pastiche.