Video shows beheaded of American in Iraq. Not for the weak of heart.

[Darth Mandarb]

It never ceases to amaze me that people are continually suprised about the shit that happens as a result of war.

So a few prisoners were tormented ... big frickin' deal.Ã,  It's happened in EVERY war EVER waged throughout time.Ã,  Why (oh why) does this suprise anybody?

A bunch of desperate terrorists capture a civilian and decapitate him.Ã,  This sucks ... but this is what terrorists do.Ã,  They don't possess the strength/orgranization to fight in the open, so they resort to pointless shit like this ...

It's similar to my thoughts about how people are STILL suprised that the President (or any politician) lies.

Now we'll lose more American lives trying to track down five hooded cowards who beheaded an American civilian in Iraq.

Here's a question ... why in the holy hell was an American civilian looking for work in Iraq?

I feel bad for him and his family but he HAD to know the risks.

Now before you all think I'm heartless, let me clarify.

I am not happy about all this crap that is going on ... I'm just not suprised by it either.

[InCreator]

Oh, and the best is still coming: There isn't just Iraq. There's lot's of "iraq's" and "insanity" groups out there.
People like these suicide bombers, born to die.
Those who cannot be made afraid by ANY bombings, and
who's violence can be only FEED with violence from enemies.
No country could fight them all. It's very stupid be make yourself target of everyone else who is just seeking for a smallest excuse to kill you. Somehow, I think that Americans won't have a good sleep for few next centuries... And this really sucks. I'm not an american, far away from there, but they are still human beings, just like me. So I feel sorry for them. And for Iraqis, too.

If, let's say - my neighbor decides that my father is a bad man and comes and kills him, wonder what? I'd castrate him with kitchen knife and I really don't think I'd feel sorry about it! Would you?

Maybe I sound stupid and like just woken up,  but it seems that media is having rough time to separate bunch of fools to the sides of devils and angels.

[Nacho]

I must say, I would rather a world full of Americans than a world full of Iraqis.
"I do not like Iraqi lifestyle, so let's go and kill some of them and show the light through darkness"
What's this? A crusade?

I don't think Rusalka's post meant that... It's more like "They treat women awful and I have problems to feel empathy for them"

That means she does not agree with some things that are happening... but she can't feel so bad about that with some other things... I can perfectly understand her...

[Matt Brown]

just because it DOES happen Darth doesnt mean it SHOULD
Did the Americans torture people in gulf war I? if they did, I didnt know anything about, and neither does the rest of the press.
Did WE do the torturing in grenada? serbia? bosina? NO. That was other people

if we are going to take the moral high ground, which is part of the basis of this war, WE CANNOT DO THAT. More of our people are going to die because of this.

Politicians lie. doesnt mean they should. we elect our leaders because we think they can be honest and lead. when they dont, in a democracy, damn it, we should be outraged.

Im not as old as some of you here, (17), and may not be as politcally cynical yet.

when you're fighting a war to claim the godamn hearts and minds, you cannot torture people.

[Meowster]

Increator: choosing between stupid and stupid? I understand what you mean, but I have to disagree on this point. As a female, and as a person who enjoys my freedom and my right to education and my right to live life as I want, and my right to freedom of expression and my choice of career, and my freedom of sexuality... I choose america over iraq.

Both sides may be hypocrites in this war. But overall-- WOAH, GIANT SPIDER ON THE WALL IN FRONT OF ME.

AWESOME!!!

[InCreator]

when you're fighting a war to claim the godamn hearts and minds, you cannot torture people.

Of course! Otherwise, you are as low as the enemy you claimed to be. Even lower, you're a liar, too, so you deserve double punishment.

Of course, soliders went through hell on earth to capture POWs and they may feel really angry, scared and everything, but violence against unarmed people is something that they went to finish, not continue. This is not a prize they earned and can enjoy now.
Maybe, media does something useful too. But It could be more useful, if media could prevent all of this, instead of getting front page material.

[Darth Mandarb]

just because it DOES happen Darth doesnt mean it SHOULD

I totally agree.Ã,  It's sad.

Did the Americans torture people in gulf war I? if they did, I didnt know anything about, and neither does the rest of the press.
Did WE do the torturing in grenada? serbia? bosina? NO. That was other people

The Iraqi army (in full retreat) was hiding amongst the thousands of civilians fleeing the carnage of the first Gulf War.Ã,  The US military strafed the road and killed them all indiscriminantly.Ã,  Tragic?Ã,  Yes indeed.Ã,  Part of war?Ã,  Yes.Ã,  Just because we don't hear about it doesn't mean it didn't happen ...

Politicians lie. doesnt mean they should. we elect our leaders because we think they can be honest and lead. when they dont, in a democracy, damn it, we should be outraged.

I couldn't agree more ... this actually helps prove my point!Ã,  Politicians lie and cheat to get elected making you think they're honest and trust worthy.Ã,  Once they get the office, they show their true grit and yet people are still suprised when this happens over and over and over again ...

when you're fighting a war to claim the godamn hearts and minds, you cannot torture people.

One of the aims (jokes) about the Vietnam was was winning the hearts and minds of the people ... this is why they took suspected VC insurgents from the civilian population up into helicopters and threw them out ...

I agree with all your points ... my point was that no matter how civilized we think we've become, this same shit will happen in war.Ã,  It's a sad fact ...

When the human soldier is put into a combat situation their survival instinct takes over and they basically devolve back to animal instincts.Ã,  Kill or be killed ... and in that state, this kind of shit WILL happen.

I wish it weren't so ...

[LGM]

I agree completely with Darth.

yup

[Matt Brown]

then I suppose Im naive. everytime it happens, Im shocked.

when people become apathetic to this sort of thing, we can never change it

[Darth Mandarb]

Panda - I wasn't at ALL trying to suggest you were naive!Ã,  I think it's perfectly okay to be sickened, hurt, disgusted with shit like this ... I sure am.

I'm just not suprised by it anymore.

And yes, apathy is dangerous ... very dangerous.

[Alynn]

Well... as an insider let me tell you what I know.

Many Iraqis live in dumps... I don't mean figuratively... They built little shacks in the middle of dumps and live there... Scrounge around in the dumps to find things to fix, and sell. I work with these guys... we sign a bunch on every day to do work around our camp... They get paid 5 dollars a day. While that seems like very little to you and me, you have to figure their average electric bill is 1 US dollar a month. We don't treat them like slaves, in fact, we have gotten to know many of them pretty well. Every once in awhile though you have to be hard with them just to get them to work, as they sometimes like to not work (but they still get the same pay)... We have to have our weapons with the amunition in them, not to threaten them, but on the off chance we have to protect ourselves.

Most of these guys just want to make decent money and take care of their families. They want shelter, food, and things of that nature. Just like everyone. We try to give them that.

The only thing about these guys that I just can't understand is when we get attacked my mortars, we have to yell at them to get them to come into shelter, they actually stand up and look for where they hit. The following is an exact quote between myself and one of the workers, during an attack.

"Mister, mister!" *points at sky* "Look bombs!"
*Me just inside the bunker*
"No shit sherlock, get the fuck in here."

Again, most of the people realize that we are just here to keep the place stable while their own government sets up. They know that we don't want to occupy them. One has even said to me.

"Bad guys, no good, they kill women and children. American, very good, they help, and pay good."

In their opinions of the whole scandal, yes, they are not happy with it, but they also know from experience that not EVERYONE is like those soldiers, just as we know not EVERYONE is like those sunsabitches that are out there, taking potshots from the shadows, and murdering civilians...

[Peter Thomas]

I must say, I would rather a world full of Americans than a world full of Iraqis.

That doesn't really make sense. If we were ALL iraqis, then we wouldn't be fighting over anything, because we'd all agree.

And if there WERE civil wars blah blah blah, it's not like they don't happen in america/germany/australia anyway...

This might sound purely sick, but does anyone have a link to the FULL footage? I don't want to see a guy beheaded so to speak, but I've seen the awful stuff the americans have done to the iraqis, and I'm interested (not fascinated) to see how they reacted in person...

[Andail]

I couldn't click that link to watch that clip. I know the sight would just get stuck on my retina.
I don't want to be blunted when it comes to this sort of violence.

Why I ask myself? Humans did this. I'm a part of the humanity, members of my race did this, I should take part of the consequences.

I'm just tired of it all. I feel like an old grandmother who just can't understand why everybody is resorting to violence all the time.

I just don't believe in wars. I don't believe that any dictatorship in the world (and by golly, if you think Iraq and middle-east is the only place to find dictatorships, look again....they're everywhere. Not all of them have enough oil to become interesting) should be ockupied and drawn into lengthy and costly wars.
Wars is not the answer.

I'm not anti-american because of personal reasons. It's not like I have Iraqi relatives, and a whole bunch of american enemies.
I too would prefer a world dominated by Americans rather than by Iraqis.
I wouldn't go to America this summer if I hated everything about that country.

Of course, the only americans I've spoken to in reality have been those brave enough to come over to Europe, and they have in general already started to look at their home country in a more objective perspective.

So what do I know? I'm just a pacifistic elf-man, newly awakened from my hibernation deep in the icy northen wastes.
I will now return to my tree-house to muse on the beauty of Swedish maidens, and leave all the war-threads alone in the future.

[TerranRich]

I was quite disappointed when Barcik said:

Surprsingly enough, I have to say that this isn't much different from what the Americans did to the Iraqis, and thus, as shocking as it is, it is hypocrisy to call it sub-human.

This isn't much different?? I'm not in any way condoning what the American soldiers did to Iraqi POW's (and I shouldn't have to even say that, it should be the norm), but it is very different. Americans were humiliating the POWs (as far as I know, I could be wrong, and please correct me). The Iraqi soldiers DECAPITATED somebody. And not a soldier. But a civilian. A businessman.

Personally, I don't think know is the right time to be establishing businesses in Iraq. It is still a very volatile situation there, and to do anthing there without being a soldier is suicide. It was a tragedy what happened (both scenarios).

[Raggit]

I'd watch the tape but I'm not sure I wanna see him get decapitated.  How gory is it??

[LGM]

Raggit: It doesn't show anything

Terran: We did humilate them, but from what I saw and read, a few were beaten to death aswell.

[DGMacphee]

Surprsingly enough, I have to say that this isn't much different from what the Americans did to the Iraqis, and thus, as shocking as it is, it is hypocrisy to call it sub-human.

Unlike what those fucking Hammas dogs did to the remains of six Israeli soldiers today. Fucking sub-human apes. I hope there's already a rocket with their name on it.

FACT 1: Calling the Iraqi beheading a "sub-human" action is hypocrisy.

FACT 2: Labelling Hamas' actions as "sub-human" is not a hypocrisy.

FACT 3: To simultaniously believe the above two facts is the real hypocrisy.

Let's be realistic here: you can't say one thing is a hypocrisy and then say a similar situation is not.

It's like saying "You're drinking alcohol?? That shit is bad for you! Don't touch alcohol, man, whatever you do because it's addictive and will kill you! And if you believe it's not addictive, then you're a hypocrite in denial! (pause) Man, I need a smoke!"

As for the beheading, there's a lesson to be learnt and IMO it's this: for every bad thing that happens in a war, another bad thing will happen as an opposite reaction, only a little more extreme. Then another opposite reaction happens, then another, then another, until we're so far ahead of what happened with the violence and the carnage that we don't know where we started. We end up losing everything that made us innocent in the first place (and by this, I'm talking about both sides of the war).

Neither side wants to break the cycle, which is why I think we should learn to not take part in it. Bush once said, "You're either for us or against us." Bullshit! I'm not for your stinking, scumbucket, shitstain government as much as I'm not for the stinking, scumbucket, shitstain ideology of Iraqi rebels. Go fight you're own war without me. Go ahead, and accuse me of sitting on the fence, Mr Bush, cause I will sit here happily and condemn both sides of this war. Go fight your own fight.

This whole thing started with September 11 and now it has nothing to do with September 11 anymore.

[Blackthorne]

Now before you all think I'm heartless, let me clarify.

I am not happy about all this crap that is going on ... I'm just not suprised by it either.

Mandarb,
         I have to agree - this isn't really shocking, or a surprise.  This kind of barbarism, on both sides, has always happened.  IT'S CALLED WARFARE for a reason.  It's not nice, it's not pretty, and the object is to quash the other side using extreme, deadly force.  So things are gonna get messy.  We're all human, we're all different, and we all suffer from sins of pride and foolishness.  This kind of stuff has happened between Christians and Muslims forever; look at the crusades.  I'm sure events like that video happened in more frequent and barbaric means, but since they didn't have EXTREME mass media to spread the word, the world only learned of that kind of behavior on a global scale when historical publishing became available the world over.  The world has ALWAYS been this horriffic and barbaric..... that's all I can say, and I'm not surprised.  Don't think you can waltz into Iraq, on a mission of peace and rebuliding with good intentions, and MAYBE end up killed by some crazy who doesn't give a shit about your intentions, just your nationality and religion.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Bt

[DGMacphee]

Amidst all the brutality and horror of war, I can still laugh about it all:

http://www.realstupidnews.com/porn_shortage.html
http://www.realstupidnews.com/us_economy.html
http://www.realstupidnews.com/roadmap_to_peace.html

This kind of stuff has happened between Christians and Muslims forever

This one's for Blackthrone:
http://www.realstupidnews.com/war_between.html

[Blackthorne]

DG,

  That's brillaint maddness!  I'm about to start my quest for Nirvana right now!

Bt