What about The Others?

[Candall]

Yeah, the Uncanny Valley is a theory about robotics which states the following:

If you give a machine human characteristics, you will notice an increasingly positive emotional response from humans who view it.  The more human the machine appears, the better the response.

However, there is an "uncanny valley" near the mark of perfection... or actual human.  Any level of "realism" within this valley causes a negative emotional response as you go toward the "bottom" of the valley.  In other words, if you have a robot that looks very nearly human but there's something small that isn't quite right, it will disturb the viewer.  It's better to be further from reality than "almost there."

[Ghost]

Pfew. Glad I remembered that correctly. Can  it, then, be applied to humans too? Like, the more "like us" a species is, the more negative we might recat towards it?

[Radiant]

Our knowledge about phsyics tells us they don't have hyperspace technology? WRONG! Our knowledge about physics tells us WE don't have hyperspace technology.

No, in fact you are wrong. Our knowledge of physics tells us that faster-than-light travel (aka hyperspace) is, on a very deep level, entirely impossible. Not that "we'll figure it out in a few decades" but that it really, truly is impossible.

Cryostasis isn't hyperspace. Cryostasis is wildly impractical for a large number of other reasons.

[Candall]

Pfew. Glad I remembered that correctly. Can  it, then, be applied to humans too? Like, the more "like us" a species is, the more negative we might recat towards it?

I  believe that according to Uncanny Valley, perhaps a creature that walks on two legs and has two arms would provoke a positive response.  This positive response would remain truer and truer as the creature looked more and more human.

However, if the creature looked exactly human except, for example, the eyes were noticeably smaller and farther apart, that would disturb us and put us off of the creature.  I know that's how I'd initially react.

On the other hand, we already like the creature that merely has two legs and arms.  Having the same eyes set the same distance apart on that creature would not have the same impact, because we accept that this creature isn't like us already.

[lo_res_man]

No, in fact you are wrong. Our knowledge of physics tells us that faster-than-light travel (aka hyperspace) is, on a very deep level, entirely impossible. Not that "we'll figure it out in a few decades" but that it really, truly is impossible.
Cryostasis isn't hyperspace. Cryostasis is wildly impractical for a large number of other reasons.

okey yes, from where we stand today, hyperspace is impossible and DUH!  cryostasis isn't warp drive. but
this

is. admittedly its the barebones of a theoretical possibility that, AS IT STANDS, is completly impractical. but maybe a refinment may lead to a solid theory may lead to prototype may lead to something that may not be warp drive but be just as good. And work is been dome on cryostasis. In fact very short term uses are becoming almost practical for delicate surgical work and holding a pationt who would otherwise suffer from lack of oxygen. Its noty practical now, yes. But work is been done and I think your been a tad pessimistic.
We have walked on the moon, many leading scientests and engineers did say it would be impossible. same with flight, heck I am sure some shamen said the same thing about making fire. On the other hand all those dead bodies stuck in the freezers creeps me out.
brrrr!!!

[InCreator]

I've always thought that Others, if they exist, are something on nano scale. Like intelligent electrons or maybe bigger, like bacteria or virus. Maybe even plants, intelligent fluid or some form of energy. If they're better and more advanced than us, word "insect" comes into mind. Aren't insects most amazing things on our planet? Like ants with ultimate body structure, cockroaches with extreme vitality, and so on?

Being a life form superior to human -- I don't really imagine that this could mean soft, weak body of a human or even anything similar.

And if they're mammal like, why do people always imagine them as intelligent and advanced?
There could be planets with life, and primates on them running around with rocks and sticks. The others. Still trying to figure out how to make a fire. Wouldn't that be fun?

Whatever they are, if we knew them and where they lived, it wouldn't be long until someone starts calling them terrorists and sending in the marines to introduce our nice concepts of democracy to them.

[voh]

If cryogenics were safe, there's always cooks and crazies willing to give up all they have for a chance at something new and exciting)

The one thing all those crazies will need when they make contact in 5 million years with another species are cooks. Good idea to send them along!

Pffrtlt. Typo. I meant kooks, of course.

(though cooks would be quite the addition - there's nothing like a good hearty meal after having been over a zillion years in cryostasis!)

[Sylvr]

The one thing all those crazies will need when they make contact in 5 million years with another species are cooks. Good idea to send them along!

Pffrtlt. Typo. I meant kooks, of course.

(though cooks would be quite the addition - there's nothing like a good hearty meal after having been over a zillion years in cryostasis!)

I didn't even catch that one. I actually read it as 'kooks', but the idea of them having cooks is rather amusing.

OT I know. 

[EagerMind]

Well, if aliens do exist, and if their nature is anything close to ours, and if they manage to advance to the point of creating technology capable of bringing them to our planet, then I think we should be very afraid indeed. Best hope that we discover them first, if you know what I mean.

Although, the idea that aliens might exist at some other-dimensional level than us never really occurred to me (maybe they're composed of dark matter?). I suppose that would basically make us like ghosts to each other, if we'd be capable of interacting with each other at all. Hmmm ... maybe that's the explanation for "paranormal" phenomena?

But I suppose if we're going to be strictly scientific about this, it seems to me there's about as much evidence for the existence of aliens as there is for any other "postulated being(s)." So I guess that makes the idea of aliens about as silly and absurd as that of frumious bandersnatches and flying spaghetti monsters. In which case, no worries!

The analogy I usually make (when discussing this topic with friends - and yes, it happens quite often) is that if there were only two humans on the entire planet and they both spent their entire lives wandering around looking for eachother, the odds of them actually meeting are so incredibly remote it's not unreasonable to say, "it's impossible they'd ever meet".

It's funny, this reminded me of the phrase "little ship, big ocean." Basically, it refers to the fact that the ocean is so huge, you think it'd be just about impossible for two ships to randomly bump into each other, and yet it seems to happens relatively often. Certainly space is much, much, much bigger than the ocean, but you just never know!

[Dualnames]

Well, I was always fascinated about that possibility.. and I was always cynic/sarcastic on those that thought that finding the speed of light and make use of it would help us find other life forms.. Just to discourage the rest of you the nearest solar system is 1 light year away.. imagine the one with civilised life forms..I think we'll destroy the planet before we get any chance...

[lo_res_man]

Oh I don't know, we survived the cold war didn't we? admittedly now its even more dangerous with all the new players in the nuclear "game" but well.. anyway what I hope for is that we get off this tired old earth, take our squabbles elsewhere, immigrate our populations,   as well as our industry, give this old world a break as it most assuredly deserves. Lets go to the moon and actually LIVE there. lets go to Venus and create balloon colonies in atmosphere where breathable air is a lifting gas, and the pressure and temperature is surprisingly earthlike. lets go to mars for lots of water and light gravity so export is a reasonable option. Lets EXPLORE!

[Stupot]

On the radio yesterday morning there was a conversation with an expert lady about space politics and a number of 'What if' questions were posed.  The most profound I thought, being that If we were one day to be able to travel across space and find a planet with life on it, would we have the right to collect and catalogue them just as Darwin did with species from all over the world so many years ago?

Scientists would understandably want to study these creatures and catagorise them.  But this would raise a powerful moral debate.  Do they have the right?... Most people would say no and I would tend to agree, particularly if they were sentient beings.  What does everyone else think?

[EldKatt]

Scientists would understandably want to study these creatures and catagorise them.  But this would raise a powerful moral debate.  Do they have the right?... Most people would say no and I would tend to agree, particularly if they were sentient beings.  What does everyone else think?

An interesting question. Your intuitive answer intrigues me, though. What is the difference between these hypothetical sentient beings and sentient terrestrial beings?


AFAIK, extraterrestrial life appears rather likely. Intelligent life, sure, considering that when a genetic-type mechanism (with heredity and variation) is in place, it appears that natural selection takes care of the rest given enough time. However, extraterrestrial life contacting us, or vice versa, seems very unlikely. And that's it.

[Stupot]

It is unlikely, but I'm sure people in Darwin's day thought ever landing on the moon would be unlikely, but we've done it (supposedly).

The thing is, in Darwin's day did they question the morals of collecting animals from other countries and continents?  Did anybody ask if they had the right to do this?  They probably assumed it was ok because this is our planet and we have a right to study and research everything about it.

But in the unlikely event that we do happen to stumble across another planet with sentient life are we going to assume that 'this is our universe and we have the right to study and research everything about it'?

Taking living and conscious specimens from another planet in 200 years time might (when the time comes) seem as perfectly acceptable as taking conscious specimens from other countries seemed 200 years ago, and is still practiced today.

But for some reason, at this present time taking them from a whole new planet seems (to me at least) unethical.

I suppose it depends on the intelligence of the creatures.. If they are likely to wage war against us for kidnapping their children for science, then we'd probably leave them to it.

[Edit]
If anyone is interested, the radio show was BBC Radio 4's Start the Week, and you can listen to it by clicking on a link on this page: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/starttheweek.shtml.  The piece about space begins at about 21 minutes, but the very small snippet regarding the collection of specimens occurs at about 28-30ish.

[MillsJROSS]

I think if their are aliens out there, than it's possible they're either going to be completely cool with us, total dicks, or somewhere between the two. It's like pondering whether a neighbor moving next-door is going to be a good neighbor or not. We're not going to find out until it happens, and I hope we're ready if it does.

I do believe there is alien life out there, and more to the point intelligent alien life. Mostly because if you think about how big the universe is, there must be something else. Will we meet them? Not sure. Yeah, the vastness of space is big and all that, but with no idea of how alien technology works, it's almost impossible to make a hypothesis on whether or not it's possible if we conclude that aliens might have a different grasp on the universe. They could live on gas giants, and thus earth wouldn't be much a resource. They could be able to live in the openness of space. I don't know, neither do you, they have a better idea.

As to whether or not hyperspace is possible or not, it either is or not. However, to make the claim that it's not on a deep level possible is a little much. Science being built on assumptions, we can only assume that if our other assumptions are correct that it is possible or not. There is no real proof. At some base level we have to make an assumption, and if any one of those assumptions are wrong, there are many things that could go out the window, such as hyperspace.

As far as cryogenics, as of know, with our current technology, cryogenics doesn't seem very plausible. But with some gene manipulation, I can see in the future creating humans with a  natural chemical in their body that allows water to freeze without expansion.

I think one of the ways to contact life would be through, either plenty of gene manipulation, in which case 'humans' might not make contact with other aliens, but some form of ancestor would. Or we are able to perfect artificial intelligence and robot technology to at least have something contact something. One interesting thing about gene manipulation, death is pretty much preprogrammed into our genes. Now there might be other things that cause premature death, or new technologies that elongate it, but the average human live around 80 or so years, just like a cat or a dog may live fifteen (give or take), years. It's possible to change our genes so we are able to live longer, be faster, smarter, stronger.

With all that the future has to offer, I think it is quite possible to come in contact with an alien species, if we don't blow ourselves up first. I don't think it'll happen in our lifetimes, though. Frankly, I'd be just happy if we could get an international moon base, and have affordable commercial flights into space. I think our survival depends on our ability to be able to go forth and breed.

-MillsJROSS