Comedy

[Babar]

Hello everyone!
I have this problem here. I'd have put this into Adventure-related Chat, but I guess it covers non-gamey things as well, so here goes:

Now, I'd like to believe I can be somewhat funny occasionally with how I pick up a certain thread of conversation and make a related joke. I can even relate something odd I noticed in a humorous way to get a few chuckles. Heh...most of that is unintentional anyway, or played by the ear. What I have much difficulty doing is intentionally coming up with an idea for something that can sustain an entire game/short story/comic/whatever.

First of all, is there such a thing as a 'comedy' game? Or would that just be a normal game with a few jokes thrown in? Discworld is an example I can think of that I recently played, but the game was just a game, with mostly just descriptions having some sort of humour thrown in. I seem to remember Monkey Island being funny, but I don't remember much else....so that's either my bad memory, on unmemorable humour. Eric the Unready was also hilarious in a way I cannot remember right now. I played some of the new Sam 'n Max games recently, and chuckled a lot throughout them- Both the situations, as well as the specific jokes.

Next, how to make one?! To take the small example of a comic comic, some information from one of the many comic writers here would be helpful. How do you think up a joke. If it is something picked up from current events, I can understand that (there is a word for that I am not remembering), but what about other than that?
Parody might be an option, but that can really fall flat easily. For example, I'd been hearing a lot about some Blue Harvest episode of Family Guy, so I watched it. Unfortunately, it seemed to be almost a scene for scene copy of A New Hope, with just the characters switched, and the occasional mocking of the original put in.
Another idea that I've seen employed in some games here is absurdist humour. I dunno about this. It might have worked in The Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, or Dirk Gentley (where the absurd portions were usually resolved in the end), but I don't think that means that if you throw in 20 unrelated things together and expect it to be funny.

It'd be nice to get some strategy or format on how people do this. The example of the comic again: How exactly is it planned and done? It doesn't seem like it's as simple as someone recalling an old knock-knock joke and applying it to their own characters. I guess my basic question is "How can I plan (from beforehand) and execute comedy?"

[skuttleman]

In my opinion, your best bet would be to create a story with all the typical elements (plot, conflict, rising action, climax, resolution, character arc(s), etc.) The best comedy comes from the fact that the characters in the story don't find it funny. So then the joke is for the player, not the characters. The story can be as serious or as ridiculous as you want, as long as the basic story telling elements are present and the characters accept the reality of whatever wackiness you throw at them.

Maybe you should just write up a short story and see what happens.

[Oliwerko]

I believe that good humorous situations cannot be forced to be made. I believe that they must be spontaneous. (to some extent) If you try to force it, it turns out badly most of the time. You can't tell yourself "Now I am goona do a joke". That doesn't work (at least for me).

Also, some people are jokey and funny by nature, some are not. This can also play a role, I guess.

[jetxl]

I do think that humous is funny best when it's about a subject or connection that people never thought of before. That's the unrpedictable and spontanious part, however writing and refining doesn't have to be that spontanious.
I don't think the things I say are funny since I came up with it and therefor are not spontanious but predicted. After all, I had the thought and came up with the way to describe it. So by the time I tell it, it's like somebody told me the joke 3 times over. What is funny is a positive reaction of people, since that I can't predict.

[Jon]

I think that you should write a short story as Skuttleman suggested; before giving the plot a comical twist.

[Babar]

I understand about being spontaneous, and that definitely works, but what about those guys who have to churn out a comic every week (or everyday) that has to be funny? What about the writer who has promised that every other line of dialogue in the game is going to be hilarious- and then delivers?

Are you saying I should write out a short story first, and then run through it again adding 'comedy' on the second pass? That seems a little artificial, no?

[Oliwerko]

I think people like that are gifted by nature. They just become funny ideas. I know a few people that are permanently funny, period.

[miguel]

 Hi Babar,
One thing it could help you on your questions is that you must understand that adventure games are, by nature, slow paced interactive games. So, what you get is people looking at the backgrounds and your characters with time to absorb the mood. You mentioned Diskworld and you can see that the backgrounds are cartoon like drawn, and I clearly remember the staircase on the Unseen University drawn almost in a surrealistic way which is funny also.
Animations are a great part of the humour on an adventure game (little things like picking objects can add a great deal to the experience) when done in a comic way.
Dialogs sure make the experience more humorous if well written.
I honestly think there is even a AGS kind of humour in the games made around 2003/04 when I started downloading them.
Those games had the Underground feel that somewhat got lost with a crescent urge to make games more advanced and commercial like.
 

[TwinMoon]

Well, there is such a thing as the comic process. As you probably know, humor is a very delicate thing; it can go wrong in so many ways.
Most humor arises from playing with expectancy: Man walks into a bar with a pig, the barman asks: did you win him at a fair? The pig says: Yes.  You'd expect the man to answer, therefore funny.
The fact that you probably didn't laugh now, is because the joke is old. In fact, it's so old it has a beard a muslim fundamentalist would be jealous of.

I remember a situation in Monkey Island 2 where you have to use a dog to get a piece of the map. I tried for hours to find something to get the dog to follow me or something, until I accidentally 'picked up the dog' and put it in my pocket. This made me laugh, since I didn't expect the dog to be an inventory item.

Or take for instance the classic Monty Python sketch "The Ministry of Silly Walks". What they did is take a normal situation - man tries to get subsidy - and combine that with the silly idea of him getting subsidy for the way he walks (and him needing money to further develop his funny walk).

What I'm saying is, you can just sit and write a comic scene by thinking of odd combinations:
- someone tries to lose money but keeps getting it returned by honest finders;
- a mugger gets beaten up by an old man;
- an accountant tries to become a lion tamer;
- a zombie tries to be a hero / just a normal person.

One thing you have to watch for is old jokes. While characters reading the script to the show they're in was mildly funny in the 60's, it wasn't anymore in Robin Hood: Men in Tights.
Also, the old man that's as strong as a bodybuilder has also been used many times.


There is the difference between a. funny situations and b. normal situations with jokes thrown in, like you said. My opinion is that the beginning of DiscWorld is funny, because you're told to fight a dragon that doesn't exist. This is a parody of the fantasy genre.
And it's a good parody, because it doesn't just copy something and make you smile because you recognize it (like in the Family Guy Blue Harvest episode) but because it uses the conventions of the genre and offers a different take on it.


While there is no substitute for inspiration and being 'naturally funny', you can write some funny stuff without actually being funny (Ricky Gervaise for instance isn't naturally funny, but he writes very funny stuff).
Also, what I think is funny might not even make you smile. It's very personal and dependent on where I expect a story to develop into.
I believe the difference between 'naturally funny' people and 'not funny' people is that naturally funny people are quicker in recognizing funny situations, those odd combinations that make us think: "Ha! That's another way of looking at it."


Wow, my post suddenly turned into an essay. Thank you, dear readers, for bearing with me until the end.
Hope this helps, Babar.

[Stupot]

To be able to successfully write jokes into a story is a skill few possess.  Generally, your average person can't just sit down and say 'today, I'm gonna write a comedy'.  But there are a few tricks:

1. Don't take it too seriously - the harder you try to be funny the more stiff and contrived the jokes will become.  Just keep writing and keep your tongue in your cheek.

2. Revisit/cross-over jokes - comedians do this all the time, and it's cheating in a way, but it works.  Basically if something funny involving , say, a skull happens early on, then a simple mention of the skull later on will remind the player/reader/whatever of the humour and they will think you have just told another joke and they'll laugh.  The reason for this is that they feel as though they are now part of the select few who get the joke, because they were there when it was first mentioned.

3. It's funny 'cause it's true - Some people are a fan of complete randomness and quirkyness... I am too... but it's not really comedy.  The best comedy come from things that people can relate to (particularly if it involves sex and/or bodily functions - but this can be seen as a cop-out in some circles).

These are just a few things to think about - I might add a few more in due course.

[Jon]

- a zombie tries to be a hero / just a normal person.

This could be a nice storyline for your game Babar, maybe give it a twist like a whole zombie family living normally in a street as if they were human e.g. Parents have a job, kids go to school etc

EDIT: Also I would say that one of the funniest games I have played is Larry Vales, where every interaction seemed to have a joke!

[Emerald]

A quote suddenly springs to mind:

Analysing humour is like dissecting a frog — few people are interested, and the frog dies.
    - EB White


But still, one thing I hate is pointless, random 'jokes'. Comedy should always have a point in my opinion - commenting on, or poking fun at something. Even if it's a small and insignificant thing. But the whole "and then he transformed into a spahgetti monster LOL" thing annoys me.




Side-note: I actually wrote a long, drawn-out example of comedic irony but decided not to post it 'cause I was sure one of you wouldn't get it, and accuse me of being an 'asshole'...
Which actually happens to me a lot over the internet. I think there's something about my sense of humour that doesn't always translate well onto paper/screen. I suppose it's because I'm a very "Italian" speaker, as my Italian friend says -- I talk with my body a lot. (That doesn't sound right...)

It's like they say -- wit is in its delivery.

[miguel]

Jon, I believe Larry Vales IS Ags.
That is, the underground thing I was writing about.

[evenwolf]

---edit----- I posted this before reading Twin Moon's post.   He makes a lot of great points. Listen to him.   The player's "expectancy" is the only edge you really have.   I've expanded a little on that point, bringing in what I think is universal of all comedy.


Hi Babbar,

You said something very insightful on your own experiences with comedy.

Now, I'd like to believe I can be somewhat funny occasionally with how I pick up a certain thread of conversation and make a related joke. I can even relate something odd I noticed in a humorous way to get a few chuckles.

When I was young I hardly ever told jokes or stories.   But I would react to other people's comments and get a laugh.    The reason why is that when someone spoke I would get a visual image in my mind.     Then I spoke in reference to that image and people would find it so odd that it was "funny".   Sometimes they even laughed.   You might be the same way.     See, we are funny people.    But the humor is mostly reactions.   We are only half of the comedy.   Are you familiar with the stand up comedy terms "Set up" and "Punchline"?    They go hand in hand.   To set up the joke is to lead the audience into thinking one way.   And the punchline is to suddenly pull the chair out from under them.

At the core of all comedy is that same "gap".   A misunderstanding.   Take insult sword fighting from Monkey Island.  These jokes were created very much the same way you and I create laughs.   Person A says something serious then Person B twists the meaning.  (its all misunderstandings you see.)

Now let's take Monkey Island and figure out why it was funny even though it wasn't insults the whole game.  What about the fact that most of the side characters were bonkers? [ They served as foils to the plot... while simultaneously providing entertainment.]   Guybrush needs "his shirt done on time" and the dry cleaner misunderstands and says "Whats that?   You need to get a squirt gun for a dime?"  That's a simple joke that wouldn't have been funny if the guy said "I don't understand you."

Likewise its ironic to have a blind lookout or a female swordsmaster.   Everything is built around what you'd expect and then surprising you.    Meathook promises to come with you only if you face the ferocious monster he keeps locked up.    Well... it ends up being a parrot.    Time and time again there is a set up and a punchline.    If you stick to this formula you will eventually succeed at the art of comedy.

I want to paste something my favorite author has said about jokes:

"Jokes work this way: The Jokester frightens the listener just a little bit, by mentioning something challenging, such as sex or physical danger, or suggesting that the listener is having his intelligence tested. Step two: The jokester makes clear that no intelligent response is required of the listener. This leaves the listener stuck with useless fight-or-flee chemicals in his or her bloodstream, which must be gotten rid of somehow, unless the listener wants to slug the jokester or do jumping jacks.

"What the listener most likely will do is expel those chemicals through the lungs with quick expansions and contractions of the chest cavity, accompanied by grotesque facial expressions and barking sounds."   - Kurt Vonnegut

Kurt is right.   If you ever watch old Charlie Chaplin / Buster Keaton movies there was no dialogue.  No "jokes".  But the visuals were designed to frighten you and then suddenly make light of the situation.    The building comes crashing down over Buster Keaton...... and he survives because the window lines up perfectly with his body.  watch

Having said all this.....comedy isn't easy.   I gave up on stand up comedy because I'm more visually oriented.   But even with short films and sketch comedy I rarely if ever get a laugh.   The real trick is trial and error.   Over many many years.  But I hope breaking it down the way I did offered you something to build on.   KV certainly got me thinking with that passage.

[Jon]

I agree with what Evenwolf is saying;

Are you familiar with the stand up comedy terms "Set up" and "Punchline"?    They go hand in hand.   To set up the joke is to lead the audience into thinking one way.   And the punchline is to suddenly pull the chair out from under them.

An example of this would be a Peter Kay joke:

"I was in the butchers the other day, and he told me that he had had to fire one of his staff today. I asked him why, and he told me, "He was putting his d*ck in the bacon slicer". I said, "Wow, what did you do with the bacon slicer?" and he replied, "Well, I sacked her as well!"

This joke shows how people can be mislead by clever wordplay, with funny results!

[Angel Dust]

One thing I would make sure to avoid is pop culture references as humor, they are done to death and there is very little wit in most of them.
Maybe a way to get the kind of comedy you do in real life into a game would be to write solid characters and just get them talking! Try to write them quite straight at first and then try to put your comedic observations in there. I have no idea if this could work but who knows?

[Stupot]

References to topical issues and pop culture may be funny in the short term, but they have the effect of setting your game (or whatever) in time.   So a pop at Amy Winehouse or Chavs or petrol prices might generate laughs among today's audiences, but in 5, 10, 20 years time no-one will get the joke (or they might get it but not really care).

So if you want to give your game staying power, then try to avoid such time-sensitive humour.

[evenwolf]

I know I briefly mentioned Chaplin and Buster Keaton in my last post.    There are resources online to find public domain movies of both these guys.    You might think they are outdated but guess again.     They are just as funny as ever because they used a simple formula that's still universal today.   

Download one Buster Keaton movie and watch it all the way through.    It will teach you more about comedy than all of  1980 - 1990 - 2000's movies combined in my opinion.

I'm looking for torrents right now.   

[Stupot]

NEVER underestimate the power of slap-stick.

[OneDollar]

I understand about being spontaneous, and that definitely works, but what about those guys who have to churn out a comic every week (or everyday) that has to be funny? What about the writer who has promised that every other line of dialogue in the game is going to be hilarious- and then delivers?

Are you saying I should write out a short story first, and then run through it again adding 'comedy' on the second pass? That seems a little artificial, no?

I reckon in those kind of things the background should always come first. Develop your characters and their world, creating different flaws, outlooks etc etc for each of them. It's then much easier to come up with a situation tailored for your characters to react to in a humorous way. Garfield is an overweight and incredibly lazy cat who would love to spend his days eating, sleeping and watching TV. When he accidentally gets himself locked out of the house we're set up for a joke about him "not recognising the neighbourhood" when he's at the bottom of his own garden. Charlie Brown is a born loser who never wins anything. He finally gets a bowling score of 100 which earns him a trophy, but when he shows it to Lucy she points out that they've spelt his name "Broun". Those jokes wouldn't be funny if we didn't know the characters, and they're all about taking established characters out of their usual situations to see how they react.

So, if you have a character who's a severe caffeine addict, dump them on a desert island with no coffee. Spend time dragging them around looking for alternatives. When they've finally got over their cravings, let them stumble upon a Starbucks and go mental. Expand on the concept by showing other character's reactions; panel 1 - girl reading book, 'RRRRRRR' noise coming from off scene. Panel 2 - coffee addict 'vibrating' his way across the panel, girl looks up. Panel 3 - girl looks back down at her book with apparently no surprise or interest.

Don't underestimate visual gags as well, especially in games where the player has been looking at the same walkcycles and talking animations for the last x hours of gameplay. Take the Monkey Island II example - how funny would the dog joke have been if Guybrush just reaches out a hand and the dog disappears? The fact that we see him stuff a large bloodhound down his trousers makes the gag. When Bernard emerges from the Chrono-John in Day of the Tentacle, he doesn't just open the door, he climbs out of the toilet. Comics and games are primarily about the artwork - the audience doesn't want to read text about how a character is 'unhappy' with the turn of events, they want to see the character with an over-the-top expression of absolute disgust.

I read some very interesting things in one of Scott Adam's Dilbert books once about writing humour. I don't have it to hand, and I can't quite remember which book it was (possibly 'The Joy of Work'?), but fortunately Adams has written a blog entry in a similar vein... http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/07/writing-funny.html
His essentials of humour are especially interesting, though I'd add 'stupid' to that list, and could be a useful guideline for coming up with characters. Something he also said in the book was the thought process for coming up with good jokes. Basically you have to try and train yourself to come up with ideas constantly, and analyse them instantly. If it doesn't make you laugh don't spend time trying to make it funny, just move on.

Sorry, rambled a bit there. In response to your question I'd suggest coming up with a story/background/concept that has the potential for a lot of humour (e.g. the world 1000 years in the future, centring around an intergalactic delivery firm), then develop characters that will be able to interact with it and each other in a funny way (e.g. a stupid, laid-back pizza delivery boy from the 20th century, an nosy alien woman with one eye, a bureaucratic Jamaican ex Olympic Limbo hurdler...) then come up with the situations for them to react to (delivering to a planet of human hating robots).

Hopefully something in that lot might help you.