What the f*** is wrong with kids these days?!?!

[m0ds]

Amsterdam by day: Pretty
Amsterdam by night: Shithole

[Nacho]

Amsterdam by day: Pretty
Amsterdam by night: Shithole

Shit... I've spent a huge thread to say what Mark has in two lines...  

[YOke]

Amsterdam is really not that good an example as it used to be one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, port in Europe. All big shipping cities have(had) the same "problems" because of the constant flow of sailors coming in after months at sea, ready to party their brains out. (Most propably Amsterdam has become better) Theese cities have a tendency to be more liberal than other cities. But it's still like saying that an industrial city is dirtyer than other cities. Of course it is.
My advice would be that if you don't want to see weed and hookers, don't go to Amsterdam. If you don't want to get shot or get your ass probed by the latest in anti-terrorist equipment, don't go to the US. If you don't want to see... etc... Examples are too many to mention. My point to all this is that if you're not happy with things where you live you can either move or do something about it. It's a big world, and somewhere there is bound to be a place where you'll be happy.
Sorry if I seem harsh, but I find theese kinds of discussions to be utterly hopeless. There is absolutely NO other excuse for your unhappiness than your attitude.

[m0ds]

My point to all this is that if you're not happy with things where you live you can either move or do something about it.

One of the most un-realistic comments I've ever heard! You can't just move, and you can't just change a city. Here in the UK, as prices for houses get higher and higher etc - the wages people earn don't move. Minimum wage is still around £4.50 for over 18's and has been for many, many years.

As a twenty year old, moving out is one of the least likely possibilities in my life. There are very few jobs that pay decent money, and esepcially so when you don't have any qualifications. I can't even afford to go to the city thats ten miles from here. Everything I earn practically goes to my parents, leaving me with about £10 a week to spend on... Well, nothing, cos I need it to pay them next week.

And as for the "doing something about" where you live, well, thats just ridiculous. It takes hundreds if not thousands of people to "agree" on a change and to testify and riot about it before anything is done about it.

[Nacho]

My point to all this is that if you're not happy with things where you live you can either move or do something about it. It's a big world, and somewhere there is bound to be a place where you'll be happy.

Yoke, I've read carefully your post and I must say that I founf interesant the "portuarial city" stuff, it is logic and makes sense, but that doens't necessarily mean that I was wrong when I posted about Amsterdam's nights... In fact, I think that both explanations match:

1)Amsterdam is a very liberal city because it's a portuary town.
2)With the base of the previous statement, Amsterdam focuses a high breakdown of its incoming turism in been a city with a very "animated night life"
3)Coffee shops help to continue the situation.

But the second part is a little bit... extrange to me...

Do you mean that I must move from town to town untill finally finding a perfect one? Argh... I don't think that such city exists... All places have their own problems, including mine, but that doen't mean that my town sucks or something...

I don't think I've been that harsh about my own town to be replied with a "Don't you like it? Move to another place!" I think that the second part of your thead is a little bit too excessive.

[YOke]

Yes, you CAN just move, and yes you just CAN change a city! And YES it does take a lot of people working TOGETHER! Getting there collective heads out of their collective asses and realizing that the responsibility is NOT with the government. The government is just a manifestation of the people. One must never forget that your country are the people living in it and not a company run by the government that lets you live on their land. The people in the country decide the rules and people have to realize that when something is wrong in the country it's everybodys fault. Don't go running around blaming different groups of people. They are also just a manifestation of the attitude in the country. Too many people are bogged down by apathy and need a kick in their a**.

Theese are my views. I'm not forcing them upon anybody, but I'm sticking by them. I'm learning new things every day, and my veiws change. Thank God for that. Also I propably should mention, since people don't know me that well around here, that none of this is personal. Hell, I don't know any of you more that you know me. And I'm not angry, just passionate. (Well, maybe a bit angry too ) Yes, I am naive. It's by choice. And my views are unrealistic because they don't mach very well with todays reality. A reality I think it's time to change.

[Nacho]

Yes, you CAN just move, and yes you just CAN change a city! And YES it does take a lot of people working TOGETHER! Getting there collective heads out of their collective asses and realizing that the responsibility is NOT with the government. The government is just a manifestation of the people. One must never forget that your country are the people living in it and not a company run by the government that lets you live on their land. The people in the country decide the rules and people have to realize that when something is wrong in the country it's everybodys fault. Don't go running around blaming different groups of people. They are also just a manifestation of the attitude in the country. Too many people are bogged down by apathy and need a kick in their a**.

Theese are my views. I'm not forcing them upon anybody, but I'm sticking by them. I'm learning new things every day, and my veiws change. Thank God for that. Also I propably should mention, since people don't know me that well around here, that none of this is personal. Hell, I don't know any of you more that you know me. And I'm not angry, just passionate. (Well, maybe a bit angry too ) Yes, I am naive. It's by choice. And my views are unrealistic because they don't mach very well with todays reality. A reality I think it's time to change.

the problem is... that I don't want to move!  

I don't know when I gave the impression that I want to move of my town, mate...

[YOke]

hehe... I'm not here to force you either.

Just to clarify (I have calmed down a bit now, and may be able to make sense ) :

First of all the use of YOU in my text is not pointed at anyone in particular. I'm just shouting into the air, so to speak.
When I said that you could "either move or do something about it" I feel that it's the truth. I'm not saying people should move. Personally I would prefer if they stayed where they are and cleaned up their own town. Places are like people. They all have their own personality. Some people live in places that are wrong for them. It's nothing especially wrong with the city, and nothing especially wrong with the person, it's just that the two don't go well together. If this is the case, they should move.

The essence of what I tried to say is something along the lines of the old saying "Talk is cheap".
I am getting tired of people talking about what is wrong all the time, when it doesn't take much more effort actually doing something about it. It can even be fun. Matt Stone and Trey Parker did it by creating South Park. It is not just a cartoon. It deals with important issues in a fun and easy understandable way. People here could make adventuregames that contains a message to people (the best ones do).
Personally I try to live by the rule "Do onto others as you wish others do onto you." One of the few good things, IMO, given to us by christianity. Sadly also one of the most overlooked.

So... everybody! Be like Ghandi!

If I by my previous rantings have hurt anybodys feelings I am sorry. If I made you feel passionate one way or the other; good!

[MrColossal]

uh oh... I'm sorry... here comes "Hyde"...

Listen... First of all... POT DOESN'T KILL BRAIN CELLS, FUCKFACES!  That's just a bullshit story "THEY" told you in grade school to keep you from smoking the shit!

who told you that? a different "THEY"?

Did you know, back when George Washington was president, he smoked dope!  He'd come home and smoke a whole salad bowl full of it!  The United States of America's first president was a fucking doper!  You know what... there's even a part of the BIBLE that talks about smoking dope... (I don't read the bible, so you will have to find it yourself... something to the effect of "I have given you these herbs..."')

who told you that? a different "THEY"?

You know what the FBI does?  They bust you for growing it... then they sell it and smoke it themselves!  It's a cash crop for the feds.  How else do they get all of their funding?  (not from GWB!)

give me a freakin' break... and also: who told you that? a different "THEY"?

As for MTV... FUCK MTV! I turn on MTV wanting to see some Damage Plan, or some Slipknot... all I see is two fucking hours of Lil' John and the East Side Boys... Get low on this, motherfucker!  (that's all rap is... drinkin' forties, bangin' hoes, eatin' fried chicken, and bustin' caps...)  Take all that Bling-bling you have, and buy some fuckin' original ideas, dammit.

right... first off, i hate to say this but shut up. second, that's all rap is? Sure, shut up. Third, Slipknot is reallllllly original "Let's wear masks!! Weeeee! We'll look so cute and scary!" You are a real fool but mostly for the eating fried chicken comment and you come off as being pretty racist. Maybe you should realize that only .1% of all music in the world gets shown on MTV and that is NOT what "all rap is" do you know that some rap artists don't even smoke pot? I know it's crazy because it's a scientific fact that all rappers smoke pot and shoot people but it's true! Or is it just what "THEY" told me and it's all a lie by the FBI to cover up their large drug operation that busts black men in the street for owning drugs and then sells it back to them just to bust them again?

get off your high horse, you'll hurt yourself

[m0ds]

One thing I have noticed is the increase in adverts about suicide on local radio aimed at young people. Never really heard them before. Lots of "shocking" adverts on TV nowadays too.

Mad.

[Peter Thomas]

I can accept that marihuana makes less damage than cigarretes... I also think than jumping from a 10 storeys building makes more damage than jumping from a 2 storeys one, but I wouldn't jump of one of that neither...

Well said.

And, Collossal, as much as I hate to say this, Hyde is actually right (to some degree). Marijuana doesn't kill brain cells

Although some of this other stuff he's putting forward is both un-necessarily hot-headed, as well as quite wrong.

Washington did NOT smoke pot:

"George Washington grew marijuana on his plantation. In his time, pot was a legal crop. It was not used for smoking, but instead the stalks of the plant were used to make ropes, canvas and paper"

Ignore sites that tell you he did. They're WRONG. I'm not saying he ABSOLUTELY didn't try it, but it's certainly not documented legally. Trust me - Five years of History and Society do not go wasted...

Also, incidentally, he was not the FIRST president. John Hanson served for one year before him...

The music slander you made was kind of funny actually. This was how I read the sentence:

"Gimme a break, man! I turn on MTV and want to listen to talentless bands who've made it big, and all I hear are talentless bands who've made it big!" Sorry..... that was just too much to handle. Slipknot?!
Okay - I recognise that here I'm insulting you're choice of music, which I apologise for, but it's not like they have anything MEANINGFUL to say...
It's like ICP who wrote all those songs about how commercialism was going to destroy society, and then, HEY HO! THEY GOT THOUSANDS OF COMMERCIAL ENDORSEMENTS! Now THAT makes sense...

[Peter Thomas]

Edit: whoops. Double post.... I thought I'd hit the edit button..... obviously I hadn't.....

Also, to Yoke... I disagree. I think it would be GREAT if I could just up and leave.

Financially, I can't.
Practically, I can't.
Emotionally, I can't.
Realistically, I can't.

It would be even BETTER if I could just wave a magic wand and make my community better. Unfortunately, I think every stoner in the street would be at my door with a flame-thrower if I tried that.

So as ideal as your vision is, it's not realistic. People who live in government housing, for example, can't just up-and-go, and they certainly don't have the means to change anything. (Writing a letter to the council does NOT constitute a change). They're stuck where they are, and there's very little they can do to change it. I wouldn't be criticizing their attitude about it, either.

And I live at home with my parents. I have enough money that I could get a place if I needed to, however that would stuff up just about every other plan I have, including paying off all my uni fees, which is a more direct threat. And, as a student, I don't have any say or sway in the community, so no one gives a rat's arse what I preach and practice.

Could you perhaps tell me how you've changed your community? It might give me inspiration.....

[Nacho]

Mr. Colossal... I know who are the "THEY" Sully believes... Here in Spain there is also a wave of people claiming that pot is, not only not bad, but also healthy.

I think it was Peter Tosh (?) with his song "legalize it", started spreading the urban legend that "Hash is good".

Now the keepers of the urban legend are the bunch of magazines and fancines about grass.

Everything can have good consequences... The chemics used for cure cancer save lifes... but the nurses who deal with it have to wear gloves and treat the substance in the same way that radioactive obcjects are treated... The conslussion: Something that is a PURE poison can have some good consequences.

Sometimes when a big vein or arteria is chopped, it's wise to cut the leg to reach easily to the bloodvessel (sp?) and sewer the wound... But if your veins are ok, it is not very recommended to go chopping your legs.

So... yes... sometimes marihuana can be good and some doctors can find good aspects of it... Does this mean that Marihuana is healthy???

This pro-marihuana fancines like to publish every partial information about hash they can find, and post it with big headlines, HASH IS GOOD!

And yes... some people believe them... the people who WANT to believe it.

[YOke]

PT: One of the things I am most proud of is that I was one of the founding members of a local filmclub. (We have weekly shows where we show high quality movies.) I live in a rural area where the usual hobby among people are hanging outside the fastfood restaurant, drinking or driving their cars around. (Often a combination of two or more of the forementioned activities) We have been going for 2,5 years now and we get more and more members. We get support from the local industry and a little bit from the state to keep it going.

[DGMacphee]

One thing I have noticed is the increase in adverts about suicide on local radio aimed at young people. Never really heard them before. Lots of "shocking" adverts on TV nowadays too.

When I was in high school, Australia had the highest rate of suicide in the world -- mostly due to teen suicide.

From what I've heard, that hasn't changed much.

As for the whole "drugs" issue, I have a few points to make:

1) Not all drugs are bad. I've spent a lot of time around people who've done some serious drugs. I used to be a casual pot smoker, but that's nothing compared to some of the shit I've seen -- I'm talking people sticking stuff up their noses, popping pills, shit like that. But they're pretty civil people who hold down high-ranking jobs, like lawyers and doctors. SO, it's hard for me to fault speed and ecstacy. Having said that, I've seen people fucked by serious shit, like heroin. Seen the movie Trainspotting? Read the book? Yup, that's what it's like. So I have diverse views on drugs. Pot, to me, is harmless. Speed, eccies -- flirting with danger, but I've seen everyday people do this kind of stuff -- not my cup of tea, but that's a personal decision. Herion -- might as well flush your young life down the toilet bowl. I must say though, the media hype drugs up big-time (Face it, how many positive drugs stories do you hear in the news? Probably "Marijuana has medicinal uses" and that's about it). But a lot of people have done a lot of awesome things while high: The Beatles (Sgt Peppers, Abbey Road), Jack Nicholson (Five Easy Pieces, Easy Rider, Last Detail, Cuckoo's Nest), Francis Ford Coppola Apocalypse Now, anyone?).

2) Blaming rap videos for drug, prostitution and violence problems in society is like using violent movies, computer games, and Marilyn Manson as a scapegoat to blame for the Columbine shooting. In other words, utter bullshit. Drug, prostitution and violence problems were happening long before rap was invented. Ever heard of the 70s? The 50s? Even the 30s! My opinion is this: the real blame is a self-esteem issue. Most kids start selling drugs and pimping because they need some easy money quickly. Why? To buy cool shit, like the cool shit their friends have (that they incidently bought by also pimping and selling drugs). Same with prositution. Earn big money in high school. MTV rap videos don't cause this. They reflect this. I think it's a self-esteem issue. If there was high self-esteem, we wouldn't have such problems. Sadly, not all kids can have high self-esteem -- to believe so would be folly. Or else Australia wouldn't have such a high suicide rate. Are parents to blame? I'm divided about that because I think it's a number of things: home life, school, peer pressure, impressing the opposite sex...

3) I believe that the world will only get better if parents stop trying to shelter their children and just properly educate them about drugs, sex, etc, etc. If I had children, I'd want them making informed decisions about drugs. It's better than them being sheltered until they're 14 or 15 and having to succumb to peer pressure without any knowledge of what they're getting into. I wouldn't want my kids hiding a serious drug problem from me. I'd want to know, so I can help. When I was a kid, my Dad told my sister and I about pot -- He told us what it did, both good and bad (which was a little contrary to all the Reagan-era anti-drug cartoons we'd been watching that said "drugs are bad"). Dad then said he hoped he could be around when Aimee and I first tried pot so he could share and help with the experience. He was awesome back there. I don't think Aimee and I ever did share that joint with him -- Probably cause we thought he just wanted some of our spliff. I did get really hammered with him once while in my teens, but that's another story. My mother and her boyfriend/fiancee are similar -- they have a joint probably once every two weeks. And both are very pleasant and logical people. And they're quite motivated -- you should see them working away on a weekend. And in high school, we had a subject called personal development. The head of that subject told us that one day we'd probably try pot, that it was an experience, and that an experience is okay as long as it's in moderation. I consider all this a healthy education in drugs. I have been taught by people with experience, not some anti-drug campaigner who has never smoked a joint in his or her life. I just think kids need parents who are open and responsibile. Those are the kinds of qualities I want my kids to inherit. I don't want to be some authoritarian cause that'll distance my kids away from me. At the same time, I don't want to be someone who alets my kids do whatever they want. I want to find balance. I want to educate. I want to be a responsible parent and teach my kids to be responsible in their decisions and actions.

[Creed Malay]

That's a fscinating website, Peter. thanks fo the link...

Davy

[Nacho]

As DG said, some people made great things while high, world would be less pretty without Sgt. Pepper's, Abbey, Cuckoo's nest and Easy Rider.

But this people finally relaxed their "experiments" with drugs... Paul never was too happy about LSD, and George abandoned it in 68... I can't be sure of Ringo, but well... Ringo never was that good.

John Lennon had severall problems with it, I don't know if he finally abandoned the cocaine, but I think it was a serious abstacle for his work in the 70ies.

Same for Jimmy Kahn and Dennis Hopper, for example...

So... drugs can't be "totally evil", they must have something good... But it's been proven that they can be a problem if overused. That's why drugs has caused such problems in Hollywood, the famous and rich people just don't care of paying money for drugs, like we "average people" do.

A "cigarette of the laugh" once in a time is not bad... But you must be mature and smart to see the danger and relax if the things become dangerous.

I agree with Daniel, if my attitude in front of drugs has been so firm in this thread is because I've also seen a lot of shit by overusing it.

And of course... the first step on the ladder of having serious problems with drugs starts, IMO, with pot.

[DGMacphee]

But there's no actual proof that pot users become heroin users:

http://www.mhcs.health.nsw.gov.au/health-public-affairs/mhcs/publications/4410.html

"There are also things about drug use which parents misunderstand - and these misunderstandings increase their fears. Many people believe smoking cannabis leads to heroin use - but cannabis use is no more likely to lead to heroin than alcohol or tobacco use. "

The first step to having a serious drug problem is trying serious drugs.

[Mari]

Wanna keep kids off drugs?  Make em watch Requiem for a Dream.

http://www.requiemforadream.com

(But I think the problem with drugs is more of the addiction than drugs.  You can get just as addicted to Dr. perscribed pills than street drugs, if not more so cause you have the excuse that "well the Dr. said it was ok)

EDIT:  You can also get addicted to overeating, shopping, TV, ppl... Drugs, when abused are more of a symptom of a problem than the accutal problem.  In my experiance anyway.

[Gfunkera]

SMOKE A BLUNT!!!

eh... Kids these days LMFAO - If they only knew me! lol

Hey atleast its not crack  :

[/b]