Why does it have to be like this?

[Renal Shutdown]

LJUBI.
May I respectfully point you in the direction of my last message to you which you seemed to have ignored.
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=16430.msg276025#msg276025

Secondly, we don't all speak foreign languages. This is an English forum from creation.  For the aid of everyone else, at least provide a basic translation of what you're saying to others in English.

Thirdly. It's sport. Who really cares?  Does it really matter which country can punch a ball over a net better than others?

Don't get me wrong, proudness of ancestors is a fine thing, but caring about the fact that you're Serbian and someone else is not is a very small minded way of thinking.  You're not the victim of genocide for the fact that you wear glasses (research Polpot), so what's the problem?  You live on Earth. Earth is multi-cultural.  Try taking a look at the bigger picture before throwing your two cents into an argument.  Two cents doesn't count for much if you're not even willing to check the exchange rate.

[AlbinoPanther]

Iqu:If you realy want to know what we said we will translate you part of it.
Nowdays serbians are sucking dick to everybody for small ammount of money.
And nobody want to be Serb anymore everybody wants in Europe but for what cost?


Our nation have more than 1000000 refuges(from: Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo) and only 8000000 million citizens that means that every 8 Serb is a refuge.Is that small thing


And one more thing world as a one nation WE(me and my girlfriend) vote for it!!!!


You are realy smart guy but keep your mind on your bussines.

[Renal Shutdown]

You are realy smart guy but keep your mind on your bussines.

Do you want to rethink that remark?Ã,  Surprisingly, this is a multi-cultural, mulit-national forum.Ã,  You've taken the entry test, such as it is.Ã,  You should know that all it requires is a modicum of general knowledge and a vague inkling of common sense..Ã,  And yet you tell me to mind my own business?Ã,  I'm sorry, but bringing this subject up in a public forum, denies your right to keep it personal.Ã,  The Internet, and this forum is a public affair.Ã,  If you wish to conduct a private discussion, you should do so accordingly.

Can I ask why you tell me to mind my own business?Ã,  Is it because I'm not a Serbian?Ã,  Do you think that since I don't have the same background as you my response is not valid?Ã,  It seems to me, that you're more nationalist, close-midned, and xenophobic than I first thought.Ã,  Sure, you say that you're in favour of a planet that doesn't count on borders and ridiculous thoughts of seperatism, yet in the same post, you mention how every eighth person doesn't belong in your small section of the world.

I think you sit down and think about your view on the world as a whole, and not spurt the teachings of your parents, peers or school without at least questioning their judgement first.Ã,  Note: "World as a whole", not "Serbia's place in the World".

EDIT: I made large grammatical errors, IE missing half a sentence. They have been fixed accordly.

[AlbinoPanther]

You are realy smart guy but keep your mind on your bussines.

yet in the same post, you mention how every eighth person doesn't belong in your small section of the world.

OOO they belong in Serbia cause they are serbs.They where dislodged from all parts of Serbia that are no longer that(parts of Serbia).

And cool down why do you take this personal
Shitar start this thread and he is Serb who is not satissfied with current shity state of our mother land.And we just shared his toughts.

[InCreator]

Pointless.
Nation is a variable, humans are we all.

Let's say nation X and nation Y doesn't "hate each other" at the start.

When a leader (may be a president, terrorist leader, crazy general or even a saboteur) of X decides to attack nation Y, there will be people who get hurt. So these people hate nation X now. They respond and attack some people of nation X. Nation X of course "won't tolerate such attacks against our nation!" and "this crime will not go unpunished!" (typical leader speech after attack) - make more damage again...

More people gets hurt by conflict, more haters there will be. And haters do things that increase haters on opposite side.
If the conflict lasts long enough, it becomes somewhat traditional: Parents raise their kids telling that other nation is evil, kids see it theirselves while growing up in a middle of conflict, etc.

But as I said, nation is a variable. There's no matter are you X or Y. And guys in power are responsible.

People don't hate germans, not anymore. But A. Hitler's name will be still cursed, even though world has rebuilt itself and he's way gone. In war (or armed conflict), everyone's a victim. Soliders have usually 3 options, shoot, get shot at or die. Civilians have even less. That's why people elect leaders.

So,

How can the Serbians, Albanians, Croatians, Slovenians, Bosnians, Macedonians become so evil towards each other.

This way?

[Renal Shutdown]

Oh, I see. Serbia has lost 1 000 000 refuges being sent out to other countries. Ã, I was assuming you had taken in 1 000 000 refuges, judging by you post. Ã, I thought you meant 1 in 8 people didn't belong in your country.

Besides. Ã, Assuming England has a population of 55 milllion (it's higher), then we have an "immigrant" population of 7.9+ million. Ã, More than all of Serbia. Ã, That's based on the last census that we took. Ã, Our "immigrants"now out total your entire total population. Ã, So the percentage last census was only 6.9%, it's still on the increase. The government and local councils get paid for taking in these people, my own council gets £35 000 for every person they take in. Ã, Still, it's less that 0.01% of the population that gets bothered and act on this fact. Ã, These people, thankfully, are being arrested and (as often as I can hope) convicted for their racist, self-centred and morally corrupt views. Ã, I thought you, as religious person, could understand how these people's view are ethically sick.

And as far as Sh*tar's original post goes, he asks "Why can't we all just get along?". Ã, It's true, he's been incredibly immature in the past, but he has my full respect on this subject. Ã, Everyone should be able to get along. Ã, It's people's senseless belief that a piece of land matters more than a person's life, that has crippled the world since the dawn of time. Ã, It's people who cling to an ultimately pointless notion of nationalism that half of the world's conflicts have been fought because of. Ã, It doesn't matter where a person was born, brought up, lived or died that matters. Ã, It's the fact that they are a person.

Also, on a side note, I'm not opposed to various area's having their own cultures and traditions. Ã, I just think everywhere's cultures and traditions should be open to anyone who wishes to indulge in them.

[AlbinoPanther]

Did that immigrants of yours lost their entire familly and did terrorists burn their houses so that they never have even chance to get back.And if they get back their life will become incredibly short.

So you mention huge ammount of money? What are you think that Serbia is loaded with it.We are poor and we were poor before all the wars.Now we don't have work places.How all refuges survive what they eat where they live?GOD knows.

And those immigrant of yours are they english people?

Ask yourself WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

[Renal Shutdown]

Did that immigrants of yours lost their entire familly and did terrorists burn their houses..
Most of our immigrants are currently coming from Kosovo and the surround areas.

So you mention huge ammount of money?
You think we see the money?  Are you really that naive?  Try reseaching into world debt.  You'll find that most countries in Africa have enough money to feed everyone, however the people never see that money.  The money all goes into stopping other countries invading.  I'm sure if you traced the money from your own country, you'd find funds that could be diverted to aiding the people, and not the governments plans.

And those immigrant of yours are they english people?
Please rephrase that question so it makes sense.  If you bother to research history, you'll find that the majority of our population isn't truely English.  Anglo-Saxon is not English.   It's a bastardisation of the English tribes, and the Germanic tribes from a thousand or more years ago.  Immigrant by definition means non-native.

Ask yourself WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT
Since this point doesn't even make any sense, I'm not going to justify it with a proper response.   Randomly "shouting" at me isn't a recognised form of debate and doesn't make me or anyone respect you more.  Until this, I was somewhat enjoying this debate.  I was learning about Serbia, and Serbia people's attitude towards the world as a whole.  Seeing something like this makes me think I've been wasting my time responding to an immature child's rantings, who thinks he's losing an argument (which it's not).  I'm sorry if this offends you, but I thought I was discussing a situation that is close to my heart with someone who, if not an adult, at least had the respect for other people to convey his opinions as such.

[Nikolas]

Iqu:

I might be wrong as I'm in London only a year, but here are some things I've come to notice:

First of all, a lot !!!!! of immigrants seem to be Indians and Pakistans, and even the Pubs serve Chicken Tikka Massala. Of course you had "issues" (don't get me wrong) and close relationships with India, so this is justifiable.

But I guess you've been to Tescos or Sainsburys. Tell me have you seen any British working on the counter? Evenif you have it's what 5% of the people working in such places. What about IKEA and all the convinient stores. I used to live in Windsor (you know the Queens summer resort...) and still there, where generally most people living there are British, the same thing applies.

Of course here the goverment and generally laws are in favour of an equall opportunity blah blah, and I have to say that this applies most of the time. But on the other hand NHS paid 1.6 m GBP to a black female doctor.

I'm not making any accusations. Really. All I'm saying is that racist exists everywhere, no matter how much we try to mask it. And now that I live in Alperton (an Indian district) I have to confess that I had doubts about moving from paradise (Windsor) to here... It turns out its great though! Again fear works in mysterious ways...

And you really seem to be open minded and know a lot about things happening down to our countries (I'm Greek, not Serbian, or Yugoslavian...) But really I think that while the whole Balkans were under the Turks and...well being a slave for like 400 years does slow you down abit, and afterwards having wars again and again with everybody around you is frustrating at least.

As far as I know (and correct me if I'm wrong) in the Uk and most of western Europe after WWII there was no other major incident.

And I tend to believe that burning houses and havinf the UN bombing a nation is much more than a major incident.

Anyway I sympathise Shitar and I understand what he means completely.

[Nacho]

I am quite sure that most of the Serbs are quite cool, non racists, non ultra patriots and calmed.

I am sure LJUBI is not one of those...

[TheYak]

This started out as an excellent thread.  I was trying to understand the point of view of Shitar and actually found it to be much like my own concerning the US.  Sometimes we're aware that the actions of our country are not right, with others we're uneducated about the facts and wrongly believe what we did was right.  With many world events, both sides might think they were in the right and, ultimately, it often can't be proven either way. 

It's interesting to hear from Greeks, particularly about the bias in their education system.  It's essentially the mirror image of our own as far as nationalistic views.  Oddly enough, after 12 years of basic education, we're (at least in my schools) given the impression that Greeks are superior, or -at least - more cultured and intellectual.  We're invited to admire Greece because its citizens think lofty, philosophical thoughts and began the spread of civilization and democracy.  Honestly, I haven't heard much else about Greece in recent history, apart from olympic events that vaguely flitted past.

The best thing we can do is communicate as people without the manipulations of media or distortions of government.  If someone from the US voices support for the decision to use nukes, invade Iraq, or other unpopular views, we often get a chance to hear from the other side.  The American impression of Serbia is an excellent example.  Unfortunately, I'm distracted from rethinking my concept of Serbs by the incessant jingoistic nationalistic narcissism shat out by LBUJI.  The way the thoughts are expressed and the ideas therein remind me of the opinions of others I discount the most.  This rancid ethnocentric ranting makes me want to avoid thinking about the Serbian point of view at all (despite the contradiction that implies).

And not to mention other sports Volleyball about 7 medals 2000 Olympic gold.Waterpolo about 6 medals 2005 WORLD champions.

Can some killers do that, do you bealive in GOD if you do you know the answer.

This person would be challenging me to rethink my perspective or at least be able to form decent counter-arguments except that I refuse to debate perspective with somebody who states that (paraphrased as I understand it here) those who believe in god have their proof that Serbs aren't killers because they did well in various sports.  I'm hoping that's rhetoric and not defining proof.

Hamelkart is Nacist look his avatar and signature

And I'm guessing the the desired word is "Racist".  I can't make heads or tales of his signature, but assume that the Racist accusation is due to the Iron Cross-like avatar.  I've yet to see anything thoughtless or offensive from Hamelkart.  Maybe I've been reading the wrong threads.  I discounted the avatar as having a different meaning for him, much like I wouldn't assume somebody wearing an Independent shirt was a racist because of the symbol. 
It's a strange accusation from someusing using the nick: WhiteNigga

[Nacho]

I think that cross is a Wehrmacht cross. It is not very offensive, for me... not at all actually. You can see a lot of forums about WWII games which members have such symbols, or the face of Rommel, or Guderian... There were a lot of respectable members of the German army. Yeah, they fought, and they killed people, but so did Che Guevara and people do wear his t-shirt happily. I was named Tukachevsky in a Starcraft forums and I think nobody here would think that I have sympathies for the Red Army or Stalin. Same for German memorabilia, if we are strictly fair.

And the signature... ? Which is the problem.

And, Ah! Serbia 70 - Spain 89... Without Pau Gasol. Let's avoid sports, because... that score should mean the start of the decadence of the glorious Serbian race? Oh, come on! 

[Vince Twelve]

LJUBI are my favorite posters.  They remind me that I'm more intelligent than a lot of people out there.  They also believe that they are more than one person, which entertains me.

Way to go, LJUBIs, way to go!  To bad I won't ever have a chance to meet you guys since you won't be joining me in my noodly heaven.

BE VIGILANT

BE PLURAL

Arrrrrr,
Vince

[TheYak]

You get a noodley heaven?  No fair! Actually, I'm not jealous in the least.  I'm an apathist.  When I die, I go to a wonderful place where I don't ever have to do a damned thing.  I get to experience the purest form of utterly apathetic oblivion.  Umm...  so there.

[Vince Twelve]

Sorry YakSpit, but your religion is just silly...  just because you believe in that silly religion of yours doesn't make it true.  You're going to no such place.  You'll be joining the rest of the non-pirates in a very noodle-less hell unless you repent immediately and recognize his Flying Spaghetti Monsterness as the one true god.

Yar.

[Nikolas]

Sorry to bring it back to the sad name of the thread: "Why does it have to be like this?".

Well there's no answer to that, but look at us! Even through the internet we manage to figth and quarell, even though we seem to agree on most things... (I mean all of us...) :'(

[TheYak]

You stickler for bringing things back on topic, for shame.  We were having fun.  Way to piss on the parade.

[Nikolas]

no, No, NO!

I believe in the monsterness! I love Past. I adore Spagheti! forgive me! 

[passer-by]

I don't imagine those risky sportmen doing something they really fear. It is just that their definition of fear is different to our.

I tend to agree, I guess. It may not be fear of injuries, but fear of not feeling self confident or unique. I wanted to say that if survival was the reason we kill people then fear of injury should be our strongest instinct and it isn't.
But I have noticed that those people (I don't mean the foolish show-offs) respect the security regulations. I haven't seen one of them not wearing helmet or whatever teh regulations say or checking their security belt , rope, whatever or not having all the relevant information (weather, distance etc) at hand before they proceed.

[passer-by]

If the conflict lasts long enough, it becomes somewhat traditional: Parents raise their kids telling that other nation is evil, kids see it theirselves while growing up in a middle of conflict, etc.

This is roughely how it goes. But this is a consequence of "brain-washing". A war occurs, history books write about it, peopel distrust other people's defense plans, they may start killing each other if the leaders are subtle enough to make themn believe the othe rnation is dangerous as a "nation" and conceal the fact that it is the leaders who do that. We had various wars with many nations, but we don't hate the citizens. They can be our friends, we can have  mixed marriages, we certainly travel to their countries...ther's just that memory of a previous war that we are afraid of, that someone may restart the war.
There 's no other way I can explain the way we interact with them in everyday life, until someone makes us believe that even the other nation's small babies are evil.