Why does it have to be like this?

[shitar]

 I don't know how to start this so I will try even though Im exiled from this forum. Some of you might know but most wont, I'm a Serbian from Yugoslavia when it was united. I now live in the United States. Recently I started using google news to learn about how my reforming home is doing. I came across this website.

http://kosovareport.blogspot.com/

After reading all of the articles on there... I don't know how to think now. Here I am never truely thinking about the Bosnian/Albanian Wars, living happy. Now I find out that the international community thinks that we are bloodthirsty psychopaths that find genocide orgasmic?

What happened to my home. I feel like I'm going to start crying and break down or just lose my mind. I can't understand why its like this. How can there be so much hate, how can WE Serbians be called these kinds of people? How can the Serbians, Albanians, Croatians, Slovenians, Bosnians, Macedonians become so evil towards each other. We were brothers. We were in the same armies at the age of 18 and we were united and loved the same leader, Tito.

I doubt many of you can understand why this is affecting me, but it feels like being in a family of many brothers and all of us killing each other off. I feel like I betrayed and have been betrayed by my brothers. This is the only place I thought I could post this and be taken slightly serious.

My dad rarely likes socializing with Yugoslavs or even talking about the country now. He dosen't even like being called one. I think I understand now a little.


Why can't we all just get along?

[Barbarian]

Yes, we are all brothers and sisters sharing the same world.
It's a wonderful notion to wish that, regardless of race, religion, place of birth, culture, etc... , that we could all learn to respect each other, share and learn from each other , help each other, "live and let live".

Unfortunately, often times, some people in positions of "power" (such as political, military, religious figures),  may think they (and/or their country and/or their people) are more "just, worthy, righteous" than others, oftentimes spurring a movement of prejudice, anger and hate towards others they deem "different" for not sharing thier same race / religion / culture / (insert whatever reason here for reason to cause conflict).

The world is a terrible mess, and we mainly have only ourselves (humankind) to blame really.

However, even though I as an individual who is not in a percieved position of "power" to change many of the injustices and problems that we see in the world, I can at least try to find some peace and happiness in my own life, as well as doing my best to respect and help others around me regardless of any differences we may have.
I believe that there is still a lot of goodness, kindness, and compassion out there, and it begins within ourselves to set by example.  I believe that what we project from ourselves will come back to us in some ways (action - reaction).

There's no easy answer, but for me, I take things one day at a time. The past is past, I can't change it, but I can learn from it. I try to focus my attention and energies into today, and continue to work towards future goals and dreams of improving my life and the world around me - if even by a small margin.

Don't know if any of my words make much sense, just thought I'd share some of my thoughts in hopes it may be of some help. 
Best wishes.

[shbaz]

That's kind of how I feel about being an American.

[fred]

I saw an interesting program about how soldiers are trained for war. It seems that humans are the only species who intentionally murder their own kind. Lions may fight for territory, but if one of them dies, it's more of an accident - usually the fight ends long before that. But even to humans killing is a rather unnatural thing. That's why soldiers and populations at war, since the beginning of time, have been told that the enemies are "pigs", "devils", "chickens", "rats", whatever... certainly not human. By taking away their humanity, the killing is made easier, and that's exactly what the people in power need in order to win the war. It's a ind of scape-goat mechanism. Hopefully, knowing this makes it easier to regard that kind of propaganda sceptically. But I guess these "reputations" still take some time to wear off. Think about the Germans, who are still struggling with a bad consciousnes about WW2, even some in the young generation, although most of them have started looking forward instead of back. Wherever they go on vacation, they can be confronted with prejudices about their people (just like so many other can). I lived one year in Berlin, and I think there's some good to a bad consciousness or "war-trauma" too, because everybody that it involves have to give those serious matters a second thought. That's a much better guarantee of social awarenss and responsibility than the unconquered and innocent "we can't be wrong"-attitude that US is showing off on the political stage these days, at least in my opinion it is.

[Nacho]

The idea that assassination between animals does not exist is something that, without further investigations which deny this, is something I can't agree. As said, I am not sure and I can't quote the documental accuratelly, but apes do that. I've seen chimps doing that. And I am not talking of fights. I am talking of, apparently spontaneus, killings where all the group participates.

I think that can be explained because of fear. As far I as remember the "ape execution" I am talking about was because the female leader convinced the others to kill a rival. That was fear of a competitor by the leader, and fear to the leader by the rest of the crowd.

I think we and apes feel the fear in a different way than the rest of the animals. If a lion severilly hurts the other, it won't probably kill the other one because the winner won't  have anything to fear of it.

But we do have fear of those who we defeat because apes and humans can claim for revenge, I think. We are indeed some king of fear animals. Revenge is common between apes and humans, whereas an animal won't probably face an enemy which has defeated it before, it wouldn't be smart in survival terms.

And sometimes we act in some way because we fear more the consequences of something that the death itself (we can suicide because we have more fear of the feels we're having than to death). An animal can't feel sorrow, or at least in a way that is going to suposse an obstacle for its survivalship, but we do. (ok ok... I know it's been published that in some american zoo a kangaroo suicided jumping to a hole after the death of his couple... Wanna know my opinion? An accident)

A gazelle will abandon its baby if it is going to supose a problem for her. A wounded cow will still eat, walk, like if anything was going on till a predator captures it. Fear and sorrow makes us behave in a different way.

And soldiers will do their job for fear. Fear to an allied bullet if they don't complete the charge (Russians in Stalingrad)... Fear to feeling very bad if your mate is killed by your fault (whatever american film war you see...) , and fear to shame (Japs suicides...).

We are strange, indeed.

[Nikolas]

This is one of my worst fears:

How do people from out of my country sees us. I'm Greek. I think that the impression we give is somewhat wrong. I now live in the Uk and I find most Greeks here (people that've spent years living here, not students), kinda "strange! Please don't kill me for that, but seing a Coffee house, the Greek way and parking cars the Greek way, seems strange in the middle of London...

It's always a problem:

How can you make judgement when your in the system you're going to judge. How can you speak for country eg. when you live in it and never had a chance to get away? On the other hand how can you judge a system, impartially, when you're out of it, completly? How can you get the necessary information?

I think that doind both of these succesfully takes a lot of time and it's called History.

Noone, can get a truthfull (whatever this means...) answer to what the Yogoslaves, Croatians, Macedonians (<-and I'm Greek, maybe the FYROMians, but huh, Macedonians seems fine...) did ten years ago. History will hopefully show the truth about things. And not only for that part of the world, but for every part that seems doubtfull to why things have happened: IRAQ, USA, VIETNAM and lot's more which I can't remember now...

And I agree with Farlander: Fear is a controling measure, that works perfectly! It's worked to me (I've been in the army, and did thousands of stupid things, though not killed, mainly because of fear). And we are a strange spieces, indeed.

[passer-by]

I think that doind both of these succesfully takes a lot of time and it's called History.

*History is what we make of it. Unobstructed access to the relevant sources is what is needed, so we can have impartial History. But I don't think it is feasible, there are too many people who seek power to let this happen.

*Fear is a reason, but I don't think it's humans' strongest point. We drive in a blizzard, jump from planes for fun, cross wild jungles and swim among sharks. Where is the fear in here? I don't know what it is that makes us willing to kill, but I'm not sure it's fear.

*When you are out of the system you always think the ones who belong to it are starnge, no matter how much information you've got. When you are in it, you see the outsiders as strange and don't understand why they comment on things you find normal (like parking the greek wayÃ,  ). More than fear and power, the sense of belonging is the strongest factor, in my opinion. Or the opposite, hate for those who belong somewhere. We generally protect our family even if we risk to die or lose our money/position. We generally protect our homeland with the same risks. We find people who don't feel that way "strange" and "dangerous". We'd sacrifice many things to protect the "group" we belong to. And we modify History to suit our explanations.

[Nikolas]

*Fear is a reason, but I don't think it's humans' strongest point. We drive in a blizzard, jump from planes for fun, cross wild jungles and swim among sharks. Where is the fear in here? I don't know what it is that makes us willing to kill, but I'm not sure it's fear.

Well this is not fear. This is defying fear! Isn't it almost the same? In both of these two we have fear!

As for the system let me give you an example:

You're in a car moving at 50 km/h.

A car moving at the opposite direction from you sees you coming at, lets say, 110 km/h.

Which is more truth, regarding your speed? You or the guy in the other car?
None!
And how is the second guy going to measure youspeed? He'll measure the 110 km/h and dedact his speed (60) and he'll find out youspeed. But in order to do that he has to measure his own speed.

Childish example but anyway you see it it's imposible to get out of every system and be impartial. And one of the greatest system we are all surrounded is Time! When time passes and we leave this system we may be able to judge more impartially bu for now I believe not.

And of course Greeks don't park. They just leave their car wherever it's suits them!

You should check Egypt and Syria (I've been there). It's funny. They have a cup in front of them along with the trafic lights showing red. So they move, give the finger to the cup and drive off smiling!!!!!!!!!! :o

[passer-by]

Fear should be connected to survival instincts. We ignore or fight our fear to protect...what? Is it fear or something that we fear of losing? I know, fear again, but in what sense?

I agree there is no way someone can be completely detached from any system, but that's why the various communities have appeared... They are working on that...

[Paper Carnival]

Unfortunately this is what all nations do. I can see it in my country too. Education in school is always telling me how much better the Greeks are from anyone else (I'm Greek). And I'm sick of it especially when my best friends aren't Greek.

It's so ironic how a lot of people talk about people of other nationalities. My teacher today said something like "you know kids, Americans are racists to the bone" and proceeded to explain how with a stance showing rasicm against Americans.

But anyway, at least my country was against the bombings in Yugoslavia, our nations are friendly with each other. That doesn't change anything though. It's not hard for the 'powerful' to adjust the ordinary people to their needs. It's not that people are stupid, it's that they hear only half the truth.

Greeks and Turks lived very peacefully with each other in the beginning of the past century, but apparently some of the 'powerful' ones didn't want this. A result was the Armenian and Greek genocide in Turkey. Another result is that my country is now divided in half. Now we're raised to fear and hate the Turks and I suppose a similar thing happens there too. And that's only because some wise guys thought it's better this way.

Sorry for my useless rant

[Nacho]

Cp, people who does that radical sports/actions ain't really scared of it. That people do not fear injuries. But they might fear some ather things, like lonelyness or... insects, who knows?

People do not voluntarilly face their fears, unless that fear is becoming more scaring than the feared thing itsel (Imagine for example anti-phobia therapies). I don't imagine those risky sportmen doing something they really fear. It is just that their definition of fear is different to our.

[fred]

I agree that the sense of belonging to a family, group or nation can be surprisngly strong, but the sense that you have to go along with your group, even when it's absurdly violent, is motivated by fear of having seen what your group does to those that don't belong to it. Fear as a controlling measure in the army - I believe it. That's why I stay away from the army :-)

I found this article about "Identifying with the Aggressor", a psychological mechanism that I'm sure some of recognize to some extent, and I think it's an interesting phenomenon, in relation to both group- and individual psychology.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_8_73/ai_n6358315

About history, isn't it usually written by the "winners"?

About the Greeks and the Turks... if the people are restless, there's nothing they need more than an *enemy* to unite against and blame it on. So the people in power provide it - instead of becoming it, perhaps?

[Nikolas]

I think that what Guybrush said applied to almost any long debate I've been into in these forums. About the things changing in London, about religioin, about the USA and the ATOM bombs, about the hurricane...

It is very difficult to know the whole truth. The only thing really is to be open minded so when somebody comes and tells you that eg. Greeks are jerks, you at least start to think about what he's saying. Nobody said that, and I wish that nobody believes that. Just an example, taken the fact that I'm Greek.

And I love Greece. One thing I don't stand in the Uk. The Sun! Not the newspaper, the actuall sun.How it allways seems that it's afternoon. No morning, no midday no nothing. An 8 hour afternoon for the whole year (exageration). I can't believe how people survive in the Northern nations like Sweden, Iceland...

After what fred said. True. Find an enemy so that the people won't bother to what's happening to their own country. It works. It's proven...

[Corey]

ohh your story made me cry  :'( i pray for world peace

[shitar]

25.5million Russians sacrificed themselves to save the world in WWII... I dont understand how this could be fear? And the way some of you make it sound is that there is no "right" only opinions... is that possible?

[SSH]

All generalisation will be  wrong to a greater or lesser extent.

Except this one 



oh, and I think some of the Russians you mention were sacrificed by Stalin rather than themselves. Stalin was, after all, the world biggest ever genocidal maniac. The only thing was, his genocide was agianst his own people.

[shbaz]

25.5million Russians sacrificed themselves to save the world in WWII... I dont understand how this could be fear? And the way some of you make it sound is that there is no "right" only opinions... is that possible?

Most of them were civilians who died while Germany attempted to march through to Moscow and take over. There was fighting in the streets, that's always bloody.

Stalin kind of let it happen to unite the country against a common enemy. He also intentionally sacrificed lots of Russians just so they could get to Berlin before the Allies. I wouldn't say they did it so much willingly (except for the civilians fighting to protect their homes) as they did it from orders.

[Hamelkart]

Well, because after Tito's death all citizens of Yugoslavia started to feel that they belong to their countries which hadn't have independance for over a millenium.

Plus, MiloÅ¡ević and his fellow extremists started to think that Yugoslavia shouldn't be a communist country anymore. Instead, he ignited wars with all his neighbours just to take as much as land possible for his puny little empire. He knew he couldn't conquer it all, but he started the whole bloodshed anyway. Nobody knows if the "Balvan revolucija" or incident at Plitvice or maybe even football match between Dinamo and Zvezda was the last drop but few days later it didn't even matter.

[AlbinoPanther]

Serbia will never rise from the ashes again.Cause our goverment like to kiss asses too much.Nowdays nobody want to be a Serb everybody call themself Eurpean citizen(huh).

But there was a story about a end of the world.In it there are only the few nations survive, including Serbia.


Kosovo will be USA property how you can"t see it.It is in the middle of the Europe.
Albanians are only a dols.


You must know that true serbian people died somethime after WWII.It's sad but that is how it is.From that moment to now everybody want to be everything except SERB.
But we are PROUD of our ANCESTORS Serbia through centurys fight only a defend wars(except Tzar Dusan).

And we remember every soldier who died for our home country for his wife and children.
It"s SAD that whole world thinks that serbs are killers.TV done realy grate job on that.

These days we have a EUROPEAN basketball championship in our contry.
1995-2005 5 gold medals and two third places.1998 WORLD championsÃ,  2002 WORLD champions (in USA we beat America HAHAHAHA).Can you amercians say now that NBA is WORLD championship SHAME on your EGO.

And not to mention other sports Volleyball about 7 medals 2000 Olympic gold.Waterpolo about 6 medals 2005 WORLD champions.

Can some killers do that, do you bealive in GOD if you do you know the answer.


Shitar: Sta ima BRATE kako je you toj budjavoj zemlji nadamo se da vam je dobro(nema sarkazma you ovoj recenici niti ironije Amerika je budjava pa je budjava).
Gde zivis moj je brat otisao na University of Utah da igra kosarku(zamenio je Andre Boguta 1 pik na draftu ove godine).
Nemoj se brinuti za ovo sranje ovde Srbije vise nema sve je otislo do Dj....a.Svi su evropljani a nigde srba.A od Evrope nista a od para nista a od mozga nista....
Srbija je danas na kolenima i pusi kurac svima za sitnis.
Ali nisu svi zaboravili ko su srbi i Pravoslavnu VERU(jako malo ljudi).Svi su kvazi dobri.
Budi nam pozdravljen od moje devojke i mene.

P.S. samo nemoj verovati Americkim medijima jer mnogo lazu ispada da su srbi pobili pola Evrope.



Hamelkart is Nacist look his avatar and signature

A ti hrvatu bolje promeni avatar i signature.Ili ti je lepse da svi lepo znaju sta i ko su hrvati(nisu svi vidis ovaj Dinko(guybrush) je izgleda cestit decko).Nije lepo tolike zrtve atomske bombe(signature) i holokausta(avatar).I jos imas obraza da kazes onako nesto you postu a Hrvatska je isterala preko 400000 srba iz svojih kuca i pobila veci deo njih.

[Las Naranjas]

On a side note, there are two minor football (soccer teams) in the NSW league who aren't allowed to play in front of crowds.

You see, back in the day before multiculturalism really took off as an idea, a migrant group tended to be somewhat insular, and they'd form football clubs to help form a community. So there were Greek clubs, and Serb clubs and Macedonian clubs etc.

Most of the communities would move on from that and move out into the wider community. Unfortunately, that meant the remaining supporters were die hards.

And when Sydney United (Formerly Sydney Croatia) plays Bonyrigg (Formerly Sydney Serbia)....things happen.
Which at least has war behind it, unlike the clubs in Melbourne fighting over what place, where is allowed to be called Macedonia at what time.