Would you really define this as "vulgar"?

[biothlebop]

I just figured it out! It's a quite ingenious plot actually. She is cursed with big boobs so no one takes her seriously. Throughout the game she goes on talking to people about saving the forest and grain and the world  and all that crap and the npc's are just like: HEY, BOOBS! and aren't even listening, so she has to do all the work herself. I personally think it is an excellent idea. She not only has to svae the world but fight against sexism! Also, just looked at the magna charter thing. Some of the concepts were quite cool, is that like a 2d capcom fighter thing?
Sidenote: There is also this 7 year old kid that lifts from the ground several times his own weight and beats a lot of adults at it (lifting to weight ratio). I think his parents were russian or something, however, he looks like something from rocky horror picture show.

[MrColossal]

Fish, get on the PM and sort it out. It's silly if there's left-over animosity in such a usually friendly community like this.

Shut up VulgarFace!

[Kinoko]

No, no, that's one of my minions, VULVAFace.

[LimpingFish]

Eric, its fine. Really. Truly.

I just didn't like the way you seemed to dismiss my points as misinformed, simply because you didn't agree with them.

I hold no grudge against you. I've never even met you. You just seemed dead set on ignoring where I was coming from.

Its not even like I was disagreeing strenuously with you or anything. I saw your point. I still see your point. Its not my point, tho.

But you do seem to like to try to back up your points to an insane degree. You and OS Squinky both brought the real world into this discussion. And tried to apply them to the unreal.

And I believe I responded. As did Kinoko. So then you bring another real world example into the discussion. And we could go on, and on...

Game characters only develop a deeper meaning when we attribute it to them.

So a large breasted, skimpily attired nurse is an unlikely figure. So what? Big deal?
Who said she was meant  to be representative of nurses in the real world? Who said she was to be representative of women in the real world at all?

You and OS Squinky, among others seemingly did.

In your last post you put foward a point about body building and strenght training, as if we are to collectively say "Oh yeah." Again game world/real world clash.

People who make these points about the depiction of women in popular media are usually the first to notice it, and then make a big stink so everybody else will notice it too.

You draw attention to the very thing you wish people would be better off not seeing.

I stand by my original post. I do see a double standard.

I'm all for womens rights, but a pair of tits is the least they should feel hard done by.


Edit: I still don't feel bad towards you, Eric. 

Edit(again): The reason why I'm not PMing you is simply that I don't see the need. There is no animosity. Also I'm sure you're wondering why I'm refering to you by your real name.
So you can call me Chris, instead of LimpingFish. Its only fair.

[MrColossal]

Then please, point out where I said the breasts on the main character were vulgar or I didn't want them there because they were breasts. I don't believe I ever wrote that a woman can not have huge breasts. I wrote that from what I can tell of the story it is going for a realistic approach to a fantasy story. But, as I believe I noted before, we don't know for sure, only what the designers have told us. So I said that her breasts would take me out of the story because they are comical and unfitting to the story and the style as I see it. Where is the double standard?

"You and OS Squinky both brought the real world into this discussion. And tried to apply them to the unreal."

I can't find what you mean here. When did I bring the real world into this? And my strength training bit was about how the ideal strong man is a muscular heap when if one only body builds they aren't necessarily strong, it had nothing to do with titties in a nurse outfit.

"So then you bring another real world example into the discussion"

I can't find my first!

I never said she had to look like a real nurse or a real woman. I said April Ryan looked like a real woman [as well as they wanted, she's nor photoreal] but I was speaking on the longest journey, not this game.

"You draw attention to the very thing you wish people would be better off not seeing."

Again I never said that the boobs on that character don't belong in society. If you can find where I did write that I'm all eyes.

I honestly don't know where you're getting any of this from in regards to me, LimpingChris.

edit: and I prefer my real name when people talk to me, while I'm very colossal indeed I don't like people to bring it up because it would obviously make them feel bad.

[LimpingFish]

You, as in both the beings know as MrColossal and OS Squinky.

And there you go again. Taking things personally.

You're picking apart what I'm saying and rearranging my points.

My real world point was actually more toward OSS, I apologize for that. Quotes upon quotes tend to confuse me.

Your body building thing seems to be directed at my and kinokos reply to OSS's point comparing real world physiques with why game heroes are muscular.
As was my reply to you. I'm sorry if you misinterpreted it.

I'm sorry for the confusion, but yours and OS Squinkys arguments seem almost interchangable. My fault.

As for my apparent "Hostility", its not like some huge wrong has been done to you.
Do you always badger people into reasons why they come across as aggressive towards you?

btw, this changes nothing of what I have said on this particular subject. Some wires got crossed, thats all.

[MrColossal]

What am I taking personally?

What did I pick apart?

What did I rearrange?

You confuse me so much. Deirdra [being inquisitive stranger] and I are 2 different people and we make quite different points most times, I had no idea you were lumping us together when you were writing and I can't possibly see how you confused us, which really lends more to my first belief that you weren't reading what people wrote carefully. If that offends you then I'm sorry, but this is what it appears to me.

"I'm sorry for the confusion, but yours and OS Squinkys arguments seem almost interchangable. My fault."

Completely disagree with you 150%

The only position that I had through this whole thing was stated in pretty much my first posts, what I wrote or what you thought I wrote that led you to believe the series of things you detail in your previous previous post, I don't know...

I also didn't dismiss any of your points, I tried to speak on them with you but you switched subjects on me to something else which was annoying, and now that you shed light on what upsets you about my posts, turns out the majority of things you are upset/hold issue with I never even wrote.

Backing up a bit:

"Game characters only develop a deeper meaning when we attribute it to them."

Game characters develop a deeper meaning when the game designer attributes it to them, not us. Something tells me that the game designers of this game have such a meaning in the story for her and thus I'm concerned that the large comical breasts will undercut it for me. My point from post 1, written for the 3rd time I think.

Eric

p.s.

"Do you always badger people into reasons why they come across as aggressive towards you?"

And I'm glad I did, since it seems the reasons you're aggressive towards me is because of some things someone else wrote. Well the reason you were originally aggressive with me was because I, in a fit of frustration at being ignored, said that I was glad you were done posting. I'm sorry for that, it wasn't very mature.

p.p.s. Please, stop telling me I'm taking things personally. Just because I don't use smileys doesn't mean I'm sitting here all stern faced, typing sternly into the keyboard to sternly defend my stern honour. When I take things personally I have someone else write for me while I dictate to them... I call them my... Sternographer...

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

http://kafkaskoffee.com/junk/vulgarface.jpg

This is quite possibly the most frightening thing I've seen since the whacko jacko halloween mask: http://www.alarmingproducts.com/WackoJacko.html

P.S.-  A colossal what, exactly?  Midget tongue-wrestler, one-armed figure skater?  Oh, I know...

A COLOSSAL BOOB DESPISER!

[Neil Dnuma]

I'm not offended, but I have to agree on the point MrCollosal is making; I'm sorry but I can't take this type of character seriously.

Then again, one day the instincts of my male body probably win and I download. And I warn the game creators, every puzzle and story element in this game will annoy and feel like wasted time.

[big brother]

Sorry to go on a tangent here, but I feel the need to clear up some misconceptions.

The double funny thing is that there is body building and strength training.

There is a lot of overlap between the two. Both revolve around lifting heavy weights. Bodybuilding incorporates dieting to slash body fat for increased muscle definition (theyÃ,  keep it far below 9%), while strength training focuses much less on diet (9-12% is usually the fat range for an ideal body comp).

Body building is building up muscles so they are large, that does not mean someone is strong. So if you punch Arnold Schwarzenegger in the tummy [back in his prime] he could possibly have doubled over and cried!

This is obviously bullshit. Back in the day, Arnold would rep over 400 pounds of weight on bench press - on his 12th set. The pros build muscle by working them to fatigue, usually with very heavy weight. Moving this weight around requires strength.

Actually, some pumped up heroes might be slowed down, what with their muscles wieghing so much.

This too is bullshit. Look at male Olympic sprinters or American football players. They need muscle for the explosive speed.

To clarify my earlier argument. The hyper optimal stimulus seems juvenile and out of place.

[MrColossal]

Oh sorry, I need to clear up some of my earlier statements... When I ment one could punch Arnold in the tummy I ment me personally...

See, I'm 50 feet tall at the moment and when Arnold was in his prime I was still at least 10 feet taller than him even at my age... So that clears that up...

Also, I didn't say WHEN you could punch him in the stomach... If he was in the middel of his 12th rep moving 400 pounds and you just decked him in the stomach... You win...

Plus I was being EXTREMELY general as you can tell/have pointed out! So general in fact they demoted me to Colonel...

[Kinoko]

Phew, I was getting a headache from all that semantics arguing back there. Thank god we've come back to humour, albeit, humour over semantics. (Eric, you spelt "meant" without the 'a' twice... sorry, I've been marking English tests all day. God... 40 more minutes and I can go home. I wasn't kidding about that headache).

[The Inquisitive Stranger]

I wouldn't say I'm supporting my own objectification as much as I'm supporting the objectification of -other- women so I can enjoy it. Ã, 

Hee hee! Fair enough.

Regarding the game world/real world point, yes, I know it's just a game, and it's not supposed to be realistic. However, games are art*, and like other art forms, are to an extent a reflection of the real world. Therefore, I do think it's quite pertinent, thank you very much.

By the way, I like how I'm being called "OS Squinky". Now I wonder whether I should be a happy open-source operating system like Linux or an evil closed-source proprietary one like Windows...

* Well, at least I think so.

[big brother]

Fair enough, Eric.

We wouldn't want just anyone thinking they could punch bodybuilders.

[Timosity]

Congrats, this is some good promotion for your game, whether its bad or good, doesn't matter. I'd never heard of it before, and now I have

And when it comes down to it, the people that are offended, will be secretly playing the game, because they know they are just annoyed at content and are still drawn to it.

If they are offended, why bother posting, just ignore and move on to something else

I think the nurse is wearing too much personally

[Nikolas]

I think the nurse is wearing too much personally

She's an nurse !? o_O

I never saw that!

[The Inquisitive Stranger]

And when it comes down to it, the people that are offended, will be secretly playing the game, because they know they are just annoyed at content and are still drawn to it.

Well damnit, he's got me figured out!

[Snarky]

I absolutely agree that one of the great things about homebrew adventures is that you get games made without concern for the things professionals have to worry about. And that includes things that are in bad taste, or just plain gross or offensive:



It's probably not essential that AGS games push the envelope on mild titillation (*titter* ... *double titter* ... etc.), since the commercial media has that covered pretty well. But I don't think it's particularly something to avoid, either.

So, whether or not this design choice is offensive, vulgar, objectifies women or what have you, I support you in your effort to make a game according to your own wishes and tastes.

Of course some people are going to be offended. People are offended by the silliest things. Yeah, this woman isn't all that exceptional by the physiognomic standards of many computer games, but a lot of people are angry about Lara Croft and all the other ridiculously over-proportioned girls in video games, too.

I personally don't find the character offensive, necessarily. I can see how you could make the case, though. You've explained that the drawing represents your "perfect woman" or "dream woman." Isn't it then a bit disturbing that she's pretty much a freak, with a body almost no woman comes close to resembling (without surgical assistance)? It's like you're saying "in order to be beautiful, to be sexy, you have to look like this," but the ideal you're proposing isn't realistic, healthy, or even normal.

Of course, art is often stylized and exaggerated, so that the proportions that look best for a drawn or animated character we would find off-putting in reality (just think of all the toons with freakishly huge eyes). And I agree that she does look sexy, although in my opinion she'd look better if her breasts weren't so oversize.

The other part of it is that you chose to make the heroine a pneumatic girl in a tight-fitting nurse uniform (a pretty stereotypical erotic fantasy), and you chose to leave her blouse partly unbuttoned. You're playing up her sex-appeal in a quite unsubtle (and yes, vulgar) way. There's nothing wrong with vulgarity per se, but it obviously affect how people experience your game. You can't expect to make a bunch of fart jokes and have everyone take your story seriously.

You can certainly have sex as an element in a serious game. Even gratuitous nudity. But if it's not done with a certain sophistication, it's likely to jar people out of the serious bits. And having the main character walk around in an outfit from a porn movie is not very sophisticated.

[Kinoko]

Where do you people get the ridiculous notion that breasts this size are SO unrealistic? They may not be -common- but I've seen breasts as good as this plenty of times. I have a few pics on my HD I could pull out as evidence but take my word for it.

[Snarky]

The dialog closeup is less extreme than the sprite, which is what I was mainly referring to. While the breasts themselves may be well within the bounds of possibility, on a girl whose figure is otherwise so slim I still think they're... let's say "highly unlikely." Excluding implants, of course.