Would you really define this as "vulgar"?

[DGMacphee]

Late agin, but just to address something...

DG: Very good, this is a big pointless thread, then why did you post in it? Does the thread have a point now? Or are you now wasting your time when you should be starting threads about homeless people or something important.

You so misunderstood what I was trying to say.

Why did I post in a pointless thread? Hmm, I don't know. Maybe to tell people that it IS a big pointless thread that seems to be growing like hairy pimple each day. It's not so much that it is pointless. It's more that I felt that the subject matter didn't really warrant the thread's growth. But, hey, maybe cartoon titties really do warrant a 12 page discussion.

But I love how you switch the accusations to me, trying to make me seem like a hypocrite, even though all I'm doing is stating the obvious. Let me ask you then, if you think I should be posting about homeless people, then why aren't YOU posting about homeless people? Too busy talking about cartoon boobies, I presume?

Wow, see how easily I did that!

EDIT: Since the thread has gotten this big, I should mention Hitler and the Nazis.

[edmundito]

Warning: Rant of the day, kind of gets off on a tangent.

To me, vulgar has nothing to do with it. Looking at the screenshots of the game for a while, it looks like the style is a very realistic, like it's going to deal with some serious business, but then those overly exaggerated breasts are just kind of silly in the middle of all that serious look, like the they have absolutely no meaning to the rest of the story but to amuse the designer.

And this is why nobody takes video games seriously. It's because most games are designed for the creator's amusement/enjoyment instead of being made people who play it.

Adventure games are common of having the classic complex of letting the player play the game but AS LONG AS the player is my (the creator's) puppet, and he/she must follow the game exactly to my design as it was a film with puzzles in between or else the player will die or walk around til they get bored and quit playing the game for a few weeks or forever. Too bad, I made my game and I made it. Hold on, I need to stroke my ego. There ware a few thousands who were into this sort of masochism, but when they invested more money and nobody the market was not expanding, then it was killed for good.

On the other side, the mainstream game, the creator's complex is that he must exploit all his personal fantasies, and since it's usually a rather introverted computer guy, then it involves women with huge boobs and big guns where you can blow up shit all over the place. That's what we all want to secretly be forever, right guys? Right girls? Oh look, nerds who save all their money will buy and (maybe, who really cares after it's purchased) play any of these games. Let's make more of them!

You, my friend, have somehow started to incorporate the latter into the former. I'm not really stopping you from making the game, but I must warn you that I think you have taken a step backward into the already-dead adventure genre. Who knows, at least it will entertain us guys while we're walking dead on a puzzle, if the animation matches that of Dead or Alive extreme beach volleyball. Please add a camera feature to zoom and pan all the way in.

[Jayel]

I don't find the image vulgar, but you might want to change it.
If you advertise your game using a screenshot like that, you risk your potential audience stereotyping your game as one of those that simply HAS to have a skimpily dressed woman with exaggerated features to find an audience because it has no other merits to stand on its own.

[modgeulator]

Modgulator: as far as this thread is concerned, they asked what we thought.

They asked what you thought of the images, they didn't ask what you thought of the people who drew them.

[The Inquisitive Stranger]

There might come a time when both of you and other opinion people (as I used to be 100%) will realize how much the sets of words you use to talk about reality fail to ghrasp both the intricacy of the design, and the interactivity of it's various disparate parts, and you might see that these discussions here have more to do with feeling good, challenging our brains and having fun than they have to do with actually understanding reality or anything of the type. You then will look back on posts and posts of opinions you've put online and you'll see a bunch of words in a row.

What's wrong with challenging our brains and having fun?

Admittedly, part of the reason I enjoy overrationalizing is because I love to annoy people who have a "don't overthink things; live in the moment"-type of mentality.

[Helm]

nothing's wrong with having fun. Just as long as we know we're not approaching any brilliant singularity here or anything.

I used to be so annoyed by those 'live the moment, dude' people myself.

[skyfire2]

one thing that you people must understand is that video games have merits - very many merits!. that means that you should enjoy the merits for what they are instead of trying to appease your own self-centerness. is there relevance in all of this? well, i have a picture to prove their worth...



hurray! two merits!

[ManicMatt]

Lara's breasts are smaller than they used to be.

It's incredible!

[edmundito]

Lara's breasts are smaller than they used to be.

It's incredible!

See? they're actually learning!

Actually, they replaced the extra boobage with some midriff and the most unconfortable t-shirt I've ever seen.

[Mordalles]

It's because most games are designed for the creator's amusement/enjoyment instead of being made people who play it.

isn't that what independent amateur games are all about? that and the inability to spell?

[edmundito]

It's because most games are designed for the creator's amusement/enjoyment instead of being made people who play it.

isn't that what independent amateur games are all about? that and the inability to spell?

If you stick the word amateur in there, then of course. But it doesn't have to be. It's not mandatory as far as I know.

[Mordalles]

It's because most games are designed for the creator's amusement/enjoyment instead of being made people who play it.

isn't that what independent games are all about? that and the inability to spell? 

[Alun]

Warning: Rant of the day, kind of gets off on a tangent.

Does it ever.  But at the risk of continuing its off-topic-ness, I'll reply anyway.

And this is why nobody takes video games seriously. It's because most games are designed for the creator's amusement/enjoyment instead of being made people who play it.

Hm...actually, I disagree there.  I think it's the games that are made for the creator's enjoyment are actually the ones that end up being the most fun to play.  It's the games that are made with a conscious deliberation to toss in things to try to appeal to as many players as possible that end up appealing to nobody. 

Okay, obviously, that's a bit of an oversimplification, and there are other issues involved.  Inside jokes, for example, are one thing that may be hilarious to the game's creator and his friends but aren't going to appeal to anyone else.  Still, in general, and with certain qualifications, I think the best art and entertainment is generally that which was designed as something the creators thought they would enjoy.

Now, maybe you were saying that games are designed for the amusement of the creator in a different way--not that the creator thought it was something he would enjoy playing, but simply because he enjoyed creating it, and thinking over the frustration he would be causing in his victims, which is to say players.  And if that's what you meant, then yes, I agree that would be a bad thing.  In that case, though, I'm not convinced that's as endemic a phenomenon as you say.

Adventure games are common of having the classic complex of letting the player play the game but AS LONG AS the player is my (the creator's) puppet, and he/she must follow the game exactly to my design as it was a film with puzzles in between or else the player will die or walk around til they get bored and quit playing the game for a few weeks or forever.

In other words, the games are linear?  Because that's all you seem to be describing here.  Well, yeah, a case could be made for more nonlinearity in adventure games, but I think it's ludicrous to assert that linearity in adventure games is a result of the creators' monstrous ego and is responsible for the supposed death of the genre.

[Las Naranjas]

[Andail]

Woah, threads grow fast these days.

Modgegulator: I didn't mean to boast. I said that I don't have any personal preferences that make me biased against women with big breasts, for the sake of the argument.
If you think it's boasting when I state that I, being 25 years old, have been with at least one woman with big breasts and with at least one with no breasts at all, maybe you're just a bit sensitive about these things, for personal reasons. I didn't say that they were attractive, numerous, or anything like that.

The authors of the post asked for opinions, and I gave mine. Sorry if you can't handle them.

Kinoko: You seem pretty upset for no reason. I'm a bit disappointed that you failed so much to grasp my point.

I loath the stereotypes that are generated and maintained by this type of pictures. I'm not personally hurt by them. My interest in this matter isn't personal. I don't cut my arms, I don't starve myself, I don't spend money on expensive surgical operations.

Jesus, nevermind really. This topic probably isn't meant for gen-gen.

[CaptainBinky]

Wowzers, this thread's got big.
Figured that it's about time I put my 2p in.

Firstly, concerning stylistic implications - I have absolutely no intentions to modify the style of this character. While I appreciate everybody's opinions, decisions over style will be made by me and Lemmy. If I wanted critques, I would have posted the images in the critics lounge. If we were to adopt this approach to all the art in the game, then we'd never finish

What I was interested in was whether the image constitued being "vulgar" since if this was the case, then we may have had to re-think the graphics since it would have implications over uploading screenshots on other forums - we've already had issues on one site due to the large proportion on under 13 year olds who read it.

I think the general consensus is, she may not be to my taste, but it's hardly vulgar. Which is fine - I wouldn't expect any aspect of the game to be everybody's cup of tea.

Ultimately, by the time the game (or at least the demo) is finished, we'll have plenty of material to advertise the game with, of which this girl will be just one picture. There are a large number of key male characters in the game, as well as women who are more "average" proportion-wise. The girl character will always stand out and look a bit different to the other charcters, and you may wish to call this a poor style choice. However, to me and Lemmy this is kind of the point of the character - that she does stand out and look different. So again, we will not be changing her because of this.

However, I think that conclusion was drawn at around about page 1. But at least it's been an enjoyable read

[modgeulator]

Woah, threads grow fast these days.

Modgegulator: I didn't mean to boast. I said that I don't have any personal preferences that make me biased against women with big breasts, for the sake of the argument.
If you think it's boasting when I state that I, being 25 years old, have been with at least one woman with big breasts and with at least one with no breasts at all, maybe you're just a bit sensitive about these things, for personal reasons. I didn't say that they were attractive, numerous, or anything like that.

The authors of the post asked for opinions, and I gave mine. Sorry if you can't handle them.

It wasn't about boasting so much as the condescending venom you had for the creators of these pictures and everyone who disagreed with you. You are deliberating taking it out of context as Helm did before you. The accusation of boasting has to be taken next to your inference that all people who create exaggerated pictures of women with big breasts must be pathetic nerds. As I've said before they asked for opinions of the images, not opinions of the creators. I really feel sorry for these guys, they've obviously put a lot of work into their creations and I can't imagine what it must be like to be on the receiving end of all this stupid reactionary shit. Looking at the first post you can clearly see they were really looking for reassurance after being shocked by the negative reaction they had had elsewhere.

[CaptainBinky]

I really feel sorry for these guys, they've obviously put a lot of work into their creations and I can't imagine what it must be like to be on the receiving end of all this stupid reactionary shit. Looking at the first post you can clearly see they were really looking for reassurance after being shocked by the negative reaction they had had elsewhere.

Bless you However, we're made of thicker skin than that. We've had some lovely comments on the main thread (as well as on a couple of other forums) and we know that topics like this can get a bit carried away and we're not taking any of it personally. But you are right about the point of this thread, and there are at least a few posts which are reassuring. So that's enough for us I guess we did take things a little personally to begin with, but you live and learn, and if anything we've been encouraged rather than put off because we do believe that most (if not all) of the concerns are addressed within the game.

[Andail]

I can't imagine what it must be like to be on the receiving end of all this stupid reactionary shit. Looking at the first post you can clearly see they were really looking for reassurance after being shocked by the negative reaction they had had elsewhere.

Reactionary shit?
Condemning John Lennon for being nude on their album cover is reactionary shit. Banning the shit-word from television is reactionary shit. Shooting doctors in abortion clinics is reactionary shit.
For all I care, we should all go around naked whenever it is warm enough. I'm a veritable hippie when it comes to liberties.

But this is a matter of objectification, and fuelling of stereotypes. Can you see the difference? Please try.
You feel sorry for these guys? Jesus, they don't even feel sorry for themselves. Just because they put a lot of effort in something doesn't mean we must praise it and appreciate it.
You're running a pretty strange case here, mister.

[Nacho]

I can't imagine what it must be like to be on the receiving end of all this stupid reactionary shit. Looking at the first post you can clearly see they were really looking for reassurance after being shocked by the negative reaction they had had elsewhere.

For all I care, we should all go around naked whenever it is warm enough. I'm a veritable hippie when it comes to liberties.

Three years saying the version that you were not actually naked, just photoshopped, because you were wearing a tuxedo, and now the truth comes. The thruth made us free, bring these bermudas to Mittens  again.