Would you really define this as "vulgar"?

[Pesty]

I think you're all missing the deep, meaningful significance of Oranges' post.

[modgeulator]

Stereotypes are one thing. If this woman walks around drooling on herself and can't think because she's just a stupid girl, and the whole thing is completely devoid of irony, then that would be pretty offensive, sure.

But objectification? I'm sure it upsets some people but personally I couldn't care less. To be honest, I'm all for objectification I think it's great. Sometimes it can even be taken to the level of a form of art. I think when you sexually objectify an image of a man or woman you're creating a fiction. It's not something from the real world that could exist, it's just an act. It isn't real. I don't believe that stereotypes and objectification have to go hand in hand.

[Andail]

I'm all for objectification I think it's great.

Ok, thank you for letting me know where you stand.

[lemmy101]

And now my 2c worth. All things considered, if we were selling this game, we might be more concerned with certain "demographics" being turned off and not playing the game due to one picture, and we might then consider changing it. After all players = $$$ and we can't afford to lose a single one...

However we are doing this game largely for our own enjoyment, and can imagine a few people playing the game regardless. Whilst it would be great to have as many people playing as possible, if it's not everyone's cup of tea then fair play, I say...

Those who do play will hopefully see what we are trying to do, and hopefully will then come on the forums, or post reviews on the game stating that they think it was actually a good choice of style of main character, and that she is a positive role model... possibly that any other look, proportions, dress, or anything else would be of detriment to the game.

Then those who were repelled from playing the game may then consider giving it a chance.

The reaction we have recieved from some people is comparable (in my eyes) to the reactionary media and public reaction to the Brass Eye special. Anyone who has seen it (and got it) will know exactly what I'm getting at. It only stands to reaffirm the point that is being made.

So those who oppose, please feel free

[Helm]

I haven't seen the brass eye special, but wasn't it the case of comedy concerning pederasty or somesort? Where humour versus people getting offended was the general vibe.

Your art containing huge boobs is not comparable, as this is not a vessel for vital societal opinion and critique (other than 'I like big boobs') so let's not get carried away. I have no problem with the art besides that I don't personally salivate over this sort of thing, but let's not go the opposite way and paint this as some sort of ideological stand.

[Andail]

So every time we see scantily dressed women with huge breasts, we are to presume they're a part of a thoroughly concieved agenda, designed to constitute healthy and positive role models?

That they're not just there to attract a certain audience?

Ooops, my spam guard just kicked in.

[CaptainBinky]

Oh dear, new can of worms opened...

So every time we see scantily dressed women with huge breasts, we are to presume they're a part of a thoroughly concieved agenda, designed to constitute healthy and positive role models?

Nope, you're absolutely right in 99.99% of times*

Our character, is not there for T&A although that is certainly one of the side-effects. I think comparisons to Brass Eye are going a little far since at least as far as that show was concerned, the viewer had all the information they required to see the satire. Jumping up and down and screaming hatred really was the most severe of ironies. As we have previously stated, since all the facts about our character are not yet revealved, nobody can possibly jump to conclusions other than those jumped to and hence why we don't take it personally.

*I have made this number up, I have absolutely no factual evidence to back it up with

[lemmy101]

Apologies, I'll just pop the lid back on this can of worms.

So every time we see scantily dressed women with huge breasts, we are to presume they're a part of a thoroughly concieved agenda, designed to constitute healthy and positive role models?

Okay fair point, I worded that a little badly.

I was more focusing on the reaction from our perspective, now, and from the perspective of people playing the game when it's finished. The point here is 'don't judge a book by its cover'. Obviously people do, and a lot of the time they are correct in their assumptions. I'm merely saying that this is a theme we explore in the game, and the reactions we've had only go to prove the theme in the game to be an accurate one.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong to point her appearance out in a negative light, and I'm not saying we intended or anticipated this reaction, I'm just saying there is a strange parallel here.

[Kinoko]

This is my new favourite band, these guys make me wanna rip my clothes off and dance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K_VMB8d19Y&search=sazan

If that's objectification, bring it on ^_^

(just seemed like a good thread to post that in)

[Haddas]

I dislike large breasts.

[Babar]

Since you can reply late, I suppose I can too:

Maybe to tell people that it IS a big pointless thread that seems to be growing like hairy pimple each day. It's not so much that it is pointless. It's more that I felt that the subject matter didn't really warrant the thread's growth. But, hey, maybe cartoon titties really do warrant a 12 page discussion.

Oh Deegius the Shepherd, show us the way!

[Helm]

The point here is 'don't judge a book by its cover'.

You specifically asked people in this thread their opinion on said cover, bypassing their better judgement to -as you say- not judge by appearances. Nnnrgh

[lemmy101]

The point here is 'don't judge a book by its cover'.

You specifically asked people in this thread their opinion on said cover, bypassing their better judgement to -as you say- not judge by appearances. Nnnrgh

Yes, agreed:

"I'm not saying anyone is wrong to point her appearance out in a negative light, and I'm not saying we intended or anticipated this reaction, I'm just saying there is a strange parallel here."

[Helm]

A parallel. to what.

[SSH]

The point here is 'don't judge a book by its cover'.

I think some people are hoping to have a peek inside that scanty cover...

[lemmy101]

Okay, I think it's time to just spill the beans a little. Forgive me Binky.

***********
SPOILERS
***********

The main character enters the game with a clean slate, for reasons that I'm not going to reveal here, and is totally naive to the world around her. In the opening section of the game she wakes up in a hospital. She needs to evade somebody and thus changes into a nurse uniform to disguise herself. Totally logical from her perspective. From there on in she wears that nurses uniform. It's not hers, and yes it's way too small.

A strong theme for the entire game is that she alone has the power to figure out what is happening on the island, and to stop what is happening.  However, the society within which the game is set is of a deeply chauvanistic nature. Men are the ones with all the power, women are seen as little more than sex objects and ways for the men to raise heirs.


As such, our main character, an extremely strong and intelligent woman, yet completely naive to the social workings on the island, to whom nudity, cleavage, inappropriate dress, attractiveness, and everything is of completely no consequence to her, cannot understand why she is recieving the reactions she gets. The social conditioning of physical appearence over internal worth has no bearing on her, and she thinks the whole world must be completely mad.

Men are more likely to tell her to sit on her lap than to give her useful information she needs, and women are hostile towards her because in their eyes she is doing nothing more than selling out their gender and "objectifying" them further.

So apart from saving Seahorse Island from doom, she might just be able to change the way people of Seahorse Island think towards outward appearance, and about men being empowered and women not being.

So hopefully you can appreciate that if our main character was an appropriately dressed, appropriately proportioned woman (there is actually another very good reason for the proportions, but I'm DEFINITELY not revealing this), this wouldn't work. It's the inhabitants of Seahorse Island's own prejudices and rash judgements on outward apprearances, her naivety as to why showing a bit of skin would possibly change others perception of her mind and worth, what she is capable of, and how she should be treat. This is one of the obstacles she must overcome, and hopefully change for the better, through the course of the story.

Furthermore, due to her lack of focus on the outward appearance, and despite being empowered physically to use her sexuality to progress, she NEVER does... not once. Even though she could simply say "I'll give you a kiss if you let me past", she would never do that.

[skyfire2]

imo, you should make her boobs bigger. they're too small. 

[lo_res_man]

Ok that makes a tad more sense, thanx for sharing. it still seems a bit silly (to me) for her to be QUITE that big, but best of luck to you and I hope to play when its finished

[The Inquisitive Stranger]

Interesting...

Firstly, I don't get why you had to keep this information such a secret. It doesn't really spoil the story's ending or anything, and certainly isn't going to keep people from playing the game. If anything, it'll probably encourage more people to play.

The message itself, well, not judging people according to their looks is a good thing and all. However, I'm a bit curious as to how you can justify the creation of a social commentary on the fact that you shouldn't judge women with huge titties when you yourself appear to have a mindset similar to the male inhabitants of your island. Take the following comments, for example:

Hey, if we have to draw 20 frames of walking * 4 directions, plus pushing, pulling, talking, idleing, opening things etc animations all in whatever spare time we can muster, then it's going to be a girl. Nothing wrong with that. Honest. *ahem*

I mean, you're not going to have an unattractive woman as your main character...

So when we come to make a main character for our game. Are we going to go out of our way to make an unattractive woman with a flat chest, just to appease (admit it) a minority of people who may find it offensive?

When it comes down to it, comments such as these are what set me off in the first place. I'm not sure which of them were tongue-in-cheek and which ones weren't, but the very fact that you seem to subjectively categorize women as either "big-breasted" (and skinny as well... unless you like fat women with huge boobs, that is) or "unattractive" is a reflection of your own prejudices. Are you, therefore, making a negative social commentary about yourselves? I'm confused.

The movie Shallow Hal comes to mind... it was a movie with essentially the same message: that looking at one's personality is favourable to, well, just looking. However, in delivering this message, the creators of this film ended up perpetuating prejudices as to what is beautiful and what is ugly (a morbidly obese woman, of course, is always ugly), and blatantly ignoring the fact that physical beauty (as well as all other kinds of beauty, at that) is much more subjective and complex than just stereotypes.

Just a thought.

[Mordalles]

well, if you're going to post the very screenshot of the girl-close-up on almost every adventure forum out there, and nothing much else of the game, that is still in production mind you, then you're just looking for controversy. don't know why you were so surprised, really.